MG MGB and MGB GT Tech Talk
Hi All . . . I've been looking for a 1965-1967 MGB to buy and saw this on Ebay. Any thoughts/concerns about the condition.
Thanks!!
ttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MG-MGB-1967-MGB-Overdrive-Wire-Wheel-1-of-Nicest-in-Country_W0QQitemZ130372046143QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item1e5ac78d3f#ht_29526wt_1167
Your link was missing an 'h': http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MG-MGB-1967-MGB-Overdrive-Wire-Wheel-1-of-Nicest-in-Country_W0QQitemZ130372046143QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item1e5ac78d3f#ht_29526
Off to look, dubious advice to come shortly thereafter...
Tom
I'm no expert, but it seems kinda pricey to me. Unfortunately, MGBs are notoriously underpriced due to the sheer number of MGBs that were made.
Has a Weber carb instead of the original SUs, later seats, I think, etc.
Are you dead-set on a steel dash car, or would a '68-'74 work?
Tom
Late seats AND late doors/ door panels. So......not really original. Nice car though.
beautiful car but for that price if I bought it it would become a trailer queen or the baron of the garage.
The wheel wells are also black. I wonder what the bottom looks like. For that price I don't like the weber or later seats. I would also want the trunk to be painted body color. Very nice, but lots little things you either like or don't.
Oh! I also notice a non-stock wiring harness. That could be a blessing or curse.
It is a hot rod. I like it. I guarantee that on a first effort you could not build one as nice or for that price. Do the math:
10k for that body finish
4 for the enine
1 for the tranny
2 for suspension
1 for new wheels
2for interior
2 for stuff I cant even think of
and 1000 hours of your life.
So yeah, people are going to be all over this car in a negative way for not being original, but it looks like a well thought out and meticulously done MG that is meant to drive:
The paper mache 3 sync is gone; in its place a bullet proof 4 sync with overdrive
Note the alternator instead of the generator
Weber DGV to replace the fussy SU carbs (more perception than reality)
Updated wire harness with modern insulation materials an 5 fuses
Comfy leather seats
Finally, if you bought it, took good care of it, and tried to sell in five years, what would it fetch? My guess is that it will depreciate as does any fresh restoration, however that depreciation will be insignificant compared to what you would accept of a new car and in effect the MG will be cheap motoring if you use it like a car.
So strike a deal if you can, but I would not call it overpriced by any means.
Pete
Alot of friggin money for that one. But If you have the money to spend you won't be happier.
All those pics and none of the underside, why not. If the bottom matches the top, WOW! Very nice. I would like duel carbs, but thats me. Mikek
Not a 67 though, no reversing lights....much earlier.................but I hope mine turns out looking as good
Most expensive repairs are for rust in sills and floors. No photos of either.
This price could only be justified for a perfect stock resto. Not what this car is.
Pass on it. Save your money. Get a car that is 1/4 of the money - make it yours. You can have a car you want - and make it your own.
It is 10K over priced. A weber on a 67, that's against the MG law isn't it? Yuk.
I agree with everyone who has said that you couldn't build a lesser car into something this nice without spending more. However, I think you could find cars easily as nice for less money? An MGB in that condition should be worth 17k, but I'm not so certain it is. Really, it comes down to what you want, you could keep your eyes peeled, buy a nice, solid, non-rusty example for fairly small dollars, do what it needs, and end up spending half that. Obviously, you wouldn't end up with a car as nice as this one, but that's why it depends on what you want! If you want something nearly perfect, buy a car that someone else has already spent the money on. If you want a nice, clean, presentable driver that looks good and drives well, then keep your eyes peeled for something else.
Another thought is that, if you're willing to spend into the teens, why not look for a nice MGC? Again, you probably won't find one restored to this condition, but a reasonably nice MGC GT just failed to sell on eBay for $17k, and I'm willing to bet you could walk away with it for $14k. Different car, but that torque can be addictive...
Lastly, it also depends on if you're willing to travel to get your car. If not, your options are fewer.
Tom
Nohome is right on the money, take it from someone doing a complete rebuild on a 67, you will spend more to do it yourself in parts alone, and if it were only 1000 hours mine would be on the road already...
MikeK,
I was wondering the same thing.
I'd also agree with Peter. I gotta laugh at all the complaining about the Weber. If it's that big a deal, a set of SUs can be had for $400.00 rebuilt. Try buying a cheap original car with it's SUs and make it look like this for 400 bucks.:D Well at least the guy that says ones like this are only worth 3-6grand hasn't chimed in.;)
The price and a dealership sale bother me. He's "built in" about a 5K profit IMHO. I don't like the weber on this engine the SUs would be better....small issue. Buying a car for this $ off ebay sight unseen, is a large leap for me. Wait until its over, call the dealership and ask some questions....like who was the previous owner...bet he won't tell or doesn't know...probably picked it up at an auction.
If you are really interested, buy a one way air ticket, have the dealer meet you at the airport with the car, inspect and drive it, have cash in hand, make an offer and either drive home or buy a return ticket.
I thank the powers of fate that I don't work for some of the tightwads here! Good grief, every payday would be a bargaining session!:(
Me. I would not buy from a dealer only because I don't like them. Nothing personal. However, in any transaction, if the two parties walk away feeling like they got a good deal, why is it any concern of the second guess brigade? When I lived in Nigeria I used to buy a lot of trinkets and carvings to give to people back in NA. All my co-workers would tell me that I am paying the artist WAY too much and could have talked them down to half of what I paid. Like I am supposed to take some kind of pride in preventing some vendor from feeding his family? Never did understand that. If you don't like car dealers and the fact that they want to make a profit, don't buy from them. Hope you never have to justify your paycheck to anyone.
Pete
It's all about perspective, that buy it now price is reasonable if you've got the money and don't want to lay on your back in the garage for the next two years. It's true that if you look around you really should be able to find a very nice 'b for $10K, but I don't begrudge someone selling a nice mkI for $17k. We might not hear about it much, but there ARE nice 'b's selling for that much and higher. If you'r really interested I would call them and tell them you want it on a lift and you want about thirty high res pics of the underside. Better yet, for that price hire someone knowlegeable to go inpect it for you.
I think this car would be well suited for a recreational, or weekend driver. Even a daily driver for that matter. I think that folks who buy restored cars are not like most on this board, who tinker, fix or restore as a hobby. I think Jim would probably fit the recreationalist rather than the hobbiest. The Weber Carb is a "set it and forget it" type of carb. At least that is what I have read here. Perfect for this kind of use. As far as the money is concerned, what can you buy for that money that will give you the pleasure of driving while getting excellent gas millage at 30+ mpg. If he has to have work done on it, parts are cheap compared to modern cars and shop labor is reasonable. I think this would be a very good thing and I, for one, would love to see more of it. I also feel that the concept of original will have less impact on the recreationalist than reliability and comfort, which I think this car will provide. Buy the car. Drive it. Show it off to your friends and encourage them to get one. If you need work done, take it to one of the many fine shops listed at this site. Tell them the MG Experience sent you.
Mick
I noticed also that the interior door latch release mechanism is from a later "B" since there is no lever. That means the doors have probably been changed. No big deal except that the're not from a '67. I agree with others, that I wouldn't like to spend that kind of money without a personal inspection or have someone knowledgable inspect it for me. It is for sale from a dealer so he has built a cushion in there for profit. You would probably get a better deal from a private owner who is selling a like MG. However, if you can afford it and you love it then buy it.......just make sure it's the car you really want.
Robert:
I don't believe in cheating myself either. That is why I do not buy from used car dealers. They have to make money to eat. Not interested in their overhead and profit.
If I wanted a car like this one, I would have to adopt the same patient approach as I do to a restoration. I have a bit of a network and insight into the Marque. I would have to spend a fair bit of time searcing for the potential car. Sure to be a few false leads. I would then invest in the inspection and transport and pay around 12-13k for the car. Once again, I have invested many hours of my time. Am I ahead of the game? Not really, but the hunt has its own attraction.
However, consider some professional who can pay for this advertised car with a couple of dozen billable hours, and I figure the two deserve each other. They will both walk away happy.
And antique dealers. Can't stand the whole scene. So I am safe.
Say what!? McFly!!! How do you know from whence you speak? Ha! You are soooooo wrong Peter about what I said! Soooo so wrong! :I3:
[color=#333366]You won't either spend your life getting the car to that level. I'm spending 2 months, getting an OD out of one car into another - clutches, going through Slave cylinders, starters, painting the rest of the bay I couldn't get to when I did it in 07, (won first in show), cleaning/polishing everything and making it my own, for oh, let'm see here (calculate, calculate calculate)...click, whir, buzz --- $3000 plus bucks that a shop would charge me for this major conversion, labor, parts, and it'll cost me oh....whir, buzz, click : $300 to $400 maybe total! That's 10 times less money.[/color]
So the guy wanting the 67 will too spend too much money on that car. Sure it's a beaut, but he could spend far less money - and make it his own and have the same end result for thousands less $$. I say get a local car for about $3000, spend $4000 on it and he'll know what he's done - over say 1.5 years of work, way more satisfying, way more "in-the-know" about owning, operating these cars and a complete sense of ownership.
And..."Making it his Own" will bring people, experiences, fun, trials, heartache, love and joy to the entire situation! That's life man, that's life! When people simply buy stuff, they disgard it quick. When they make it their own - they find there's something deeper to the experience that money cannot buy! Yeah now that's what I'm talking about, Rock on!
I agree with Mr. Kirk, buy a ticket before you buy the car. Do a very careful inspection and test drive. It'll be money well spent. I'm just not a believer in "auctions"...Barrett-Jackson or any other, especially when I'm not looking at the other "bidders". Anyone can be bidding this car up. FWIW.
Dan, you make very valid points, but some people don't enjoy working on cars, and others don't have the space, time, or confidence to do it. What you describe as a wonderful journey that has brought you lots of joy is something some people would describe as torture!
Dan:
I am not trying to be offensive. So please take what I say in the spirit it is meant.
You are the Jehovah's witness of the community and I admire your devotion and enthusiasm to this hobby. However, if you think you are gong to redo a 4k car for another 4k, then you are wrong. And not to ignite the other fire, but the only decent drivers in the 4k range tend to be rubber bumpers. Fair or not, we are talking apples and oranges in what they sell for. Steel dash cars are less common and for whatever reason at the top of the desirable heap. So, for a steel dash car in the same shape as your proposed RB driver, I would expect to pay 2-3k more. Puts me at 7k before I invest a minute of sweat equity or real $$$.
I have been following your rolling resto for some years. The engine compartment, the suspension, now the transmission. I get a big kick out of your enthusiasm and get it done attitude. Cant recall if the interior has been gone through or not. You have put a lot of blood sweat and tears into this car, and like a woman giving birth, seem to erase the pain and move on to the next. Not for everyone my friend.
By the way, drive your B down to the paint shop and see how far 4k gets you into a new paint job if you need ANY bodywork. Not very. 4-5k is more the domain of the good DIY body job nowdays and you still have the WORK to do. Some people are lazy by nature and prefer to let the $$$$$$$$$$$$ do the work. I know this goes against your core values, but it is true.
Pete
I do what Dan does...buy them relatively cheaply and make them my own.
Here is my '71 I picked up for $2800 last summer. Nice rust free, original car. Drives and handles nicely. Well taken care of.
Here it is today...
I had to make it my own. It will get a complete base/clear paint job in the original color, engine and trans detailed and resealed, chromed 60 spokes, interior freshened, etc. I will finish this car well before top down season arrives.
I'm retired. I work on the car every day. I've done many other cars (stockers, hot rods, domestic, foreign). I'm no rookie (although I have a lot to learn about MGBs) I have the skills, tools, space, time to do this. I thoroughly enjoy ALL aspects of restoration.
If I tire of this car, I'll be lucky to recoup my parts investment when I sell it, and my labor is a give away (but chalked up to entertainment :) )
But not everyone is like Dan and me. Not everyone has the skills, tools, space, time, interest to do what we do...and that's OK.
Some just like to drive, show, and polish a beautifully restored MGB.
Some like a car modified for the track or at least high speed touring.
Some want an nut and bolt restoration...for others it needs to be personalized with body and mechanical modifications.
Some want the joys of top down motoring in an MGB roadster on the cheap and could care less about concours quality paint.
There are countless other ways to enjoy our hobby. Every one is "allowed". It's only the individual's priorities (and check book size) that matters.
If you have been looking for an MGB restored to this level...if it is the vintage, color and equipment combination you have been looking for...if you understand that the price is at or near the top of the market...if this is the way you have chosen to enjoy the hobby, then buy it!
Bob -
That's exactly what dealers on eBay do. Their shills will bid the price right up to the reserve, and that makes legitimate buyers think, "Wow, if those guys think the car is worth that much, maybe I'll bid on it". I would NOT, under any circumstances, buy a car on eBay from a dealer.
I HAVE bought and sold cars on eBay, and have only been stung one time (and that was my fault).
Same old song and dance---try building one for that price, some stuff is not original, Webers don't belong on MG's, yada yada yada. It's a nice car. If you could buy it for cheaper it might be worth it.
Ahhhh... Jim didn't ask for opinions on how to spend his free time for the next decade. He asked for opinions on this car. He really should have given a little more background as to what he seeks in a car I suppose.
Like Roy said, same old same old. The thing that is rather unsettling for me is the opinions on values for these things. I think it's safe to say that this forum consists, for the most part, of enthusiasts that are really fans of MGBs. Yet when prices come up, it seems that a large percentage feel the cars are not really worth much at all. Seems another rather large contingent feel thier time is also worthless. So if this is the attitude among people that are devoted to the marque, who the heck else is gonna buy one for any real money???? Just wondering.
Truth be told, there is nothing too rare about either the MGB nor Midget and especially the rubber bumpered. Look at the prices for the TRs, AHs and Jags....MUCH higher, more demand, less made alot didn't survive. Its all about supply and demand. I don't think the price is unreasonable but I think better value can be had. My experience is when something less than a bargain comes along another can be had without too long a wait nor search. The guy asked for opinions and that is what he's getting. IMHO...and you sometimes get what you pay for and sometimes you don't...also IMHO....
My concerns are why were the doors changed? Is this a real SW rust free by implication car? Who did the work and to what standard. ONLY an inspection will answer some of those ?s. Could be a pig in a poke is woth 17K but not to me. I want to see the pig and and weigh it myself.
FWIW from an Iowa Pig Farmer....:D
Hmm...lots of interesting comments...
a '67 at top $$'s and you get a pseudo- resto, non-stock items, mix'n match piecemeal B stuff...somebody will buy it but most likely not from MGE...even though I'm new to the board it seems that most of us are enthusiasts not just drivers!
Why do a resto and not do it right, with proper period parts? I suppose a buyer has a lot to negotiate from.
My thoughts...Keep them original stock for Original or just throw on whatever fits?? I could do a lot of things to my fleet but keeping original is my thing.
Jon
Some valid points that I agree with Robert. And I wasn't saying to just go buy this particular car sight unseen. I recently bought a salvage auction car from photos, got burned and it was only 1500bucks!
I'm just saying that there has to be some point where a done car is worth a sizable price tag. I can't speak for the other Jim here but seems to me that if he is seriously looking at this car with a 17 grand buy it now, I sort a doubt he is really interested in the $3000.00 project car previously eluded to.
BTW, I wouldn't consider any TR6 remotely rare but they seem to bring more than a CB MGB. Maybe the 6 cyl??
Jim You haven't posted to all this madness, hope you weren't scared off.
If you want to drive the car now and for along time to come you might want to check this one.
It is listed right under the more expensive one you posted. I think a better deal.
No. I dont know Bart and have no interest in the car...except I'd like it myself. :)
Good luck in your search.
Paul
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-MGB-Sportscar-Full-Restoration-Showcar_W0QQitemZ110495986258QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item19ba12f252
its a pretty awesome looking car...I agree that for the effort in the body work and finish, the parts should have been original and then it would have garnered really big bucks without the question marks against it on the originality side. The undercarriage shots are critical to see if it has the same attention to detail where people can't see. If it really is as great a paint job as the pics show and the undercarraige is a straight as the top side, thats worth over 10K in rust repair, labour, paint and finishing alone. The price of a good early B without rust...3-5 K....engine rebuild...interior...easily well over 17K...
I was lucky...I was unmarried, without kids and had access to a good garage when I did my restoration and I had already owned the car for 11 years. Now, 5 years on, I have two kids, house, no garage to work in...but a bit more money available. If I were to buy one now this type of car might be more appealing. I love tinkering on the B (hopefully in the plans for this weekend) but more and more, i just want to drive it....and I can understand that many buyers would want that without the greasy fingers. :-)
tc
My thoughts on the path this thread has taken... I agree with Tom and Peter above. It makes far more financial sense to buy a solid car already completed than to spend thousands more, plus years of your time and effort, to do it yourself. Of course some people prefer restoration work over driving and that's perfectly fine, but not everyone feels that way. I've had plenty of cars that ranged from basket case to show car. My favorites have all been the nice examples that I can drive right away and simply maintain or improve as the need arises.
Chris, early '67 models had no reversing lamps. They were introduced part way into the model year.
Tom, you could definitely get an MGC for that money, but it's a very different car! More of a highway car than a canyon car, I'd say. Not quite apples and oranges, more like apples and apple sauce. ;)
Robert, I did a similar thing once, buying a one-way ticket to pick up a '67 GT in Seattle. Ended up buying another one home. I was out $500 but it was a lot less than I would have spent had I bought that rotten car.
Peter, I felt the same way in Morocco but if you don't haggle with the vendors there then they will consider you rude and arrogant. It was horrible chipping 50 cents off the price of something when my luggage was worth more than the man's house.
Wrong doors, wrong front fenders, wrong seats, wrong front valence, rattle-canned trunk, (probably) wrong trunk lid with poor panel fit to boot.......how can anyone justify anything even approaching top dollar for this car?! My God.
My guess is that this was a very rough car not very long ago that has undergone a quick and dirty, sky-down (as opposed to ground-up) "restoration" for resale purposes only. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.
My 67 is almost ready to find a new owner. Pics are on the BCF with the rebuild for all to see. I have about 40 test miles so far and every thing is going well. I think its still on the first page and its the one with over 3000 views. Mine is the same kind of money and has the correct fenders, doors,leather interior, chrome wires etc and its red in the wheel wells. By the end of next week I should have all my test miles on and good pics top and bottom . Bob..
I have been looking for a steel-dash B for way too long. Many of the cars that are for sale are of the quality of this one and the claim is made that they are "restored." This car is worth less than 10k in my humble opinion, because the details are not done right, and not done right to an egregious level. It even lacks front bumper overriders, and that's just the first thing I noticed. All that stuff matters, and you have to consider what you would get for the car should you wish to resell it. You don't want to lose your shirt.
If you looking for a 67 this one ain't it.. It's more of a homogenized car of many years.. Not worth the 17K to me because it would be hard to sell if that had to be done down the road... You can do better for that kind of money...
That is a nice looking car I would buy it if you have the means. In order to get a car looking that nice you are going to have to sink at least that much money and a ton of time. Buy that car and you'll probably just have little stuff to tinker with. I would get a look under that car to make sure there isn't any hidden rust. I for one like the newer seats over the older ones.
My 2 cents, if you have the cash, buy this car and enjoy it .
I'm pretty sure the seats have been upgraded as there were no headrests on the '67.....sounds overpriced to me.
Jim,
My 2 cents...
I recommend you check out the car if at all possible and offer what you feel it is worth to... you.
The 1967 steel dash MGB is very sought after, due to the classic styling and optimal 5-bearing engine performance before US emissions regulation. The overdrive feature is awesome and a huge plus for value and enjoyment. This restoration was not performed by a "purest", but very tastefully done.
Ultimately, you must determine what you want...a turn-key classic, a rolling restoration or complete frame off restoration project. Be honest with yourself with regard to time, money and effort you can devote to a project, space and tools necessary. Consider the available assistance in your area (car club, British repair shop(s)).
I have a '64 MGB, 3-bearing with working overdrive. I can't help but grin each and every time I flip the overdrive switch on the crackled paint, steel dash, and feel the engine relax by 800 RPMs on the highway.
My ebay acquisition arrived with a long list of issues. Some pretty serious, but my overall intent was to learn as much about the car and how to repair and maintain it myself as a rolling restoration project. I picked the 1964 for the styling and overdrive feature (though, not functioning at purchase). The overdrive switch contacts were corroded and only needed cleaning for the circuit to work again. I joined a local MG club and joined the technical committee. Now, I am comfortable with brakes, hydraulics, front/rear suspension, exhaust, carburetor conversion (from weber to SU), electrical, fuel delivery system, upholstery...etc.
So, there is a certain level of pride in accomplishment I feel as I'm driving a vehicle I've rescued.
My dilemma is that I have a safe, fully functioning MG...that needs a good paint job. It's going to kill me to tear her apart to paint correctly...but that day is coming.
Happy Hunting! - David
Remember this car when people ask "why are MGB's so undervalued?" It's worth the asking price if that's what it sells for.
Just because the owner is asking that price doesn't mean he'll get it. He's got a minimum set ($17K) but later on, that may change as well. If some like to rebuild cars, they won't buy this one. If some want a dependable roadster that won't need much, if anything, then they might consider this.
As for this car; I'd want to see photos of the restoration and get some receipts. Can't prove anything without those.
Jim
Over due to chime in....what have you decided? Lots of "pros and cons" but we'd like to hear your thoughts. Are you bidding or waiting? Have you decided one way or the other? A little feedback for nearly two pages of responses...please...;)
Way too much money!! I just sold a real nice rust-free '66 with a rebuilt engine, good OD, and complete new interior and top for 10K - It went to Switzerland 'cause nobody in the USA bid more than 8,000
