5-speed Options

After pricing out parts for a rebuild on my stock 4-speed, I've been giving some serious consideration to a conversion to a 5-speed gearbox. I'm keeping the stock 1500 engine as well as at least a 4.3 diff if not the original 4.55 (no 3.9 for me), so I think I'll need that extra gear to get to GT35. I've been doing my research, and see 3 real options. This is the info I've gathered, please chime in with your personal experience.

Hi-Gear Ford T9 Kit - ordered direct from England, it comes out to about $1950 USD, depending on exchange rate plus shipping. This includes literally everything needed to do the conversion including a rebuilt T9 gearbox. All that is left is to have the speedo re-calibrated to read properly. Supposedly no body modifications are needed. I've driven Hi-Gear kits on both MGBs and Midgets, and think they are very nice. This is the most expensive option.

Rivergate 280Z Kit - Listed at $895 on the Rivergate website. Glen Towery has these kits in stock, and may be able to provide a better deal. It would be up to me to find a suitable donor gearbox, but they are readily available and should cost $250 or less. I drove Jeff Schlemmer's converted car and it felt great. Requires slight tunnel modification to move shifter hole back 1-2" overall and a re-sleeve of your master cylinder to get correct pedal feel. You also need to fabricate your own gearbox mount, but it is a very simple piece. This seems to be a most popular kit currently.

Dellow Toyota T50 Kit - Dellow Automotive in Australia lists the kit for $850 AUD, which at todays exhange rate is about $790 USD. Besides a bellhousing, I don't know what else is included in the kit. A Toyota T50 gearbox needs to be sourced as well, which was used in a bunch of mid-80s Corollas and Celicas. I've never driven one of these gearboxes, but hear they are durable and are not impossible to find. I know Malcolm Robertson has this kit installed, but don't have many details otherwise regarding completeness of the kit and necessary body modifications.


Thoughts????

No real opinions here on the 5 speeds other than the ones I've driven (MGA with a T-9, and MGB with a Nissan 'box) just didn't feel right to me. The MGA had what felt like an unnatural shift pattern, and the B the shifter felt like it was stuck in a tub of rubber, the original box feels more natural, and solid to me. That being said it's your car do what you want, heck the plans for my car are way WAY more out there than anything like this.
These trannies are not expensive to rebuild, way less than any of those options. Our local MG transmission rebuilder does MGA And early B boxes for under $500, under $400 if they aren't all that bad to start with.
I've got two cars with transmissions that most likely won't be re-used, both showing under 50k miles, if you want to look at another original 4-speed, I'm only one state over.

I have a Ford Sierra box in my MGA, and I just love it.I have a
Nissan box in my Magnette, but can't get the right clutch feel.
As Rob says, the shifter feels very sloppy, by comparison.
Hi Gears kit is pricey, but, in my opinion, worth it

That comment on re-sleeving the slave with the Nissan conversion....
Do you mean to sleeve it down?

I have the Dellows set up. Sourcing the right gear box would be the thing. The Celica come with 3 differant gear lever positions I discoverd.
1 comes up within 1/2" of the old lever which as luck would have it was the first 1 I brought.
As far as the kit go'es it is complete and lacks nothing. I used a MGB slave cylinder on the clutch. These gear boxs are strong but getting a little long in the tooth. (Thats sheep talk to you townies)

Glenn has complete Datsun kits - including the transmissions - sitting on the shelf. You just have to make a crossmember (I can give you the details) and I can let you know how I set up my master/slave. The slave is stock Datsun ($20 new), and the master is sleeved to 5/8" (like the bugeye). It does take a little grinding on the tranny to make it fit too - just trim down a couple of the ribs in key locations to open up room for exhaust and firewall clearance. 5 minutes work. It would be worth calling Glenn to negotiate a good price, and a lighter than average flywheel. I have to run a mini starter to clear the frame.

Quantum Mechanics has the T9 kits ready to ship as well.

Don't forget about the option of an early overdrive, a Datsun automatic, T5, or many other possibilites!!!

Ed, I made my own cross member adapting the celica mount. Wasnt a big deal. Re the body a little tapping here and there but minor work.

I have a Hi-Gear kit in my Magnette, and the best I can say about it is that I still haven't decided if I like it or not. Installation-wise, I think it's a very good option, totally comprehensive and requires the least modifications. In operation though, I find that I can't quite come to grips with the feel of the gearchange, or the strange push down-left-forward reverse gear; I definitely prefer the original gearbox's light, quick action. Also, even though I bought the gearbox with the kit, so it is supposedly rebuilt, it is incredibly noisy on the overrun, and second gear synchro is virtually non-existent. I need to find someone with one if these kits in there car so I can see if they are all like this, or if I just got a bad box. Long story short, if I had the money to spend over again, I would have spent it on the best rebuild the original gearbox has ever gotten, rather than chasing after a problematic fifth gear.

Excellent input from everyone, thank you. I'm not going to jump into anything just yet, and in fact have been pondering one more option - the T5 conversion using a custom fabricated bellhousing. James Woolf has been helping me with some info on this setup. It was pioneered for 3-synchro MGBs so it should be feasible for Magnettes as well. The bellhousing is the front section of the gearbox cut off and modified to bolt to the T5. It is more work, no doubt. I do like the fact that I could probably keep the top mount slave and actuator arm, as well as the stock starter. Also, T5 transmissions are everywhere.

I'll be sure to document it here, whatever I do!

dont forget the different splines. a adaptor required there. 5 speed is the way to go though

I've got to chime in on the Rivergate conversions. Jeff, with GREAT respect, after doing one of these and currently fitting a second, I am unfamiliar with the grinding you mention. I do think you and I solved the same problem in two different ways. Where the bulkhead meets the tranny tunnel, there is an overhanging flange of the bulkhead material into the tunnel. I addressed that flange with a BFH. It appears that you, rather, ground down the top rib of the transmission. Do I have that right?

Now, I'll say something that may reflect on me! I did not notice any inappropriate action, resistance, travel. or movement of the gear lever with my Rivergate/Datsun conversions. Maybe I'm just insensitive, but after owning/driving over two-dozen four-synch MGBs, no two of which shifted with the same feeling, I simply cannot feel anything about the 280Z box that is not within that range. Yes, reverse is in a different place. Just like it is on the T-series cars. So what?

Such an inexpensive conversion, cf. the Moss/Sierra, and it fits so beautifully. What a joy to assemble! I find it hard to understand any complaints.

FWIW,
Allen

Yep, I didn't want to do any mods to the body if I could help it, so reliveing the top tranny rib solved my issue. I also noticed you can't get the rear of the tranny high enough to match the factory driveline angle, which is why I pushed it up as high as possible, without tunnel mods. The extra relieveing I did was on the driver's side of the tranny case to allow more room for a custom header and larger diameter exhaust pipe. Most folks won't have that issue, and really the exhaust fit through before the extra material was cut away. I did it for peace of mind.

When I installed my early MGB OD gearbox I had to gring away the web on the L/H side of the box to clear the exhaust.

I'd think the sensible way to go is a laycock D type overdrive..simply take the old box casing and install the MGB innards...this keeps it all bmc and all you need to fabricate is the driveshaft...the cost of these boxes peaked about 2 yrs back and they can now be bought reasonably...provided the gears are good a rebuild kit is about $140 from UK plus a second gear synchro ring...

Tim,

Will a D-type o/d go in without tunnel mods? I can't imagine why it wouldn't if you're using the original tranny case. I've seen conversions with the 4-sync o/d boxes and the remote on these boxes requires a monstrous modification to the tunnel. I have a 3-sync early B o/d box here, all rebuilt and ready to go - but in my '65 B!

Thanks,
Allen

Here is a pic of an early MGB 3-synchro overdrive box in a ZA Magnette.
As you can see it's the gearlever extension that requires the tunnel mods.
The rest of the box, and the overdrive unit fit with no problems.


Rich

Can a Magnette puddin' stirrer not fit on the "B" box? I suppose the answer would be obvious to me if I saw them both on the floor next to one another.

Nope. The ball's totally different. But you can weld a longer shifter onto the base, and hide the weld in the shift boot. I just picked up a new chrome Hurst shifter kit (simple shift lever, not an obnoxious hotrod part) for $15 to extend the shift ball to a more comfortable position.

It obviously depends a lot on the state of wear of the gearbox you install...BUT I loved the Rivergate / Datsun 5 speed I had in an MG a few years ago. It was tight shifting, the lever didn't rattle, and the gears ratios were very close to the original MG 1 - 4 speeds. One note...the Datsun doesn't have a dipstick in the gearbox. It has a side fill plug and you do as you would the differential..fill to the edge of the fill hole til it runs back out. Not a problem except, you may not be able to remove the fill plug in that narrow tranny tunnel. I couldn't. Ended up with a 2lb. ball peen hammer making a slight adjustment to the tunnel side so I could pull the plug and fill or check the level. It's easier to put the dent in before you install the tranny permanently in the hole, rather than pull it out to dent the tunnel side then reinstall it.
Just an idea to save some time. Don't know about the Ford gearbox, but they Toyota is the same as the Nissan in this respect.

Wombat

I just got the billing on my charge card for the T9 conversion components for my Magnette. Hopefully they will be showing up in about a month or so, I piggy backed the bits onto a Moss stock order to save shipping. Every little bit helps. Now I have to find a gearbox.

Then it's just a question of welding up the big bloody hole I cut when trial fitting the all synch OD box in the car. : (



Kelvin

Isn't that what carpet is for? :D

Pulled my stock gearbox back out last night after doing some initial mockups. It sure is nice to have an MG where the gearbox drops out the bottom easily! I have the appropriate T5 on-hand now, so the bell-housing fabrication can commence. I also dropped the rear and installed half of the brake system, so things are coming along.

I'll be sure to photo-document the project, good or bad!

If you could figure out how to make a transmission adapter plate for a modified MGB bellhousing (chopped off?) and weld the two pieces together in a jig, you could sell a TON of them!!! (hint, hint)