MGB: 61 Midget Reconstruction

Greetings MG fans. I am restoring a 61 Midget for a friend, and while I am not specifically an MG enthusiast, I wanted to join this forum for information, support, and to share the rebuild experience with you all.

Let me give you all some of my background. I am a full time chef in colorado, but love classic cars. My personal cars are a 1967 Ford Mustang, and a 1964 Ford Fairlane wagon (currently being converted to a 2 door). I restore cars for friends to fund my own passions. Most recently, I completed a full scale restoration on my bosses 1978 Toyota FJ55 Landcruiser. I knew as much about Landcruisers as I do about MG's, so I joined a forum and posted my progress and questions. Made a few friends along the way, as I hope to do here. You can see the build
http://forum.ih8mud.com/fj55-iron-pig-preservation-society/118502-fj55-deconstruction.html

I do have some MG dna running through me however. My dad has owned 2 1962 MGAs. Once in college, once when I was a kid. He sold the second one after dismantling it, and about 1 year before I showed an ability to fix cars. ( he is still upset about that, let me tell you..) Someday, I hope to find another one, and restore it for him.

Here is the Midget I am working on, both on the day it arrived, and in its current state of exploded view. The guy who owns it is going to keep it as original as possible, down to the awful original tranny. It was originally Black with a Red interior, and it will be going back to that color.

That's a remarkably rustfree Mk 1 Midget ! It seems to be a very early one too. Do you have the VIN number (starts with GAN1L/***) ?
Also the engine looks as if it's the correct 948 cc unit for this GAN1 Midget.
Are you absolutely sure it was black when it left the factory ? (Seems to be Old English White to me...!?)
Finding an original steering wheel will be difficult (especially if it is an early cream coloured wheel).
All the best,

Nick

Midget63 Wrote:

Midget63 Wrote:

That is a great looking project! The British Motor Heritage can give you a "build sheet".

http://www.mgcars.org.uk/namgar/bmiht/bmiht.htm

Keep us posted!

Jealous of your starting point. That thing just needs a wash and wax compared to what a lot of people start with.

Looking forward to seeing the end.

Pete

Jason,
Thanks for the link to the rest of the Midget photos.
Indeed it's very likely that this was an original black car; no one resprays a car under the heater box or behind the dash for instance.
The word "black" in yellow crayon near the footwells, was an indication for the trimmers at the Abingdon factory, to cover this part of the body in black vinyl.
Ditto for the "red" on the back of the dash.
Black GAN1 Midgets were available with two different trim combinations and it seems that these crayon marks helped the production people to assemble the right combination.
(I have attached a photo of an original black GAN1 with red trim/black footwells; your car might have been identical)

Your car's VIN indicates that it was built somewhere at the end of November or early December 1961. So it should have a black steering wheel (easier to find than the early cream wheel). The engine number should be somewhere around 9CG-DaH-13*** or 9CG-DaL-13***(the low compression unit being very rare).
The gearbox should be a so called "smoothcase" that is it has no reinforcing ribs on the outside of the housing. The number might be on top of the housing just in front of the gearlever extension turret. Very often this number is not in the factory files.

Best thing is to obtain a BMIHT Production Trace as Mr Moore mentioned. These are not cheap however and might not add much to what can be found on the vehicle itself. They are a nice "birth certificate" though !

Brings back memories of mine before the crash.

Dave

Back in the day, many of these cars received "sympathetic upgrades" as new features were introduced to the MG Midget/AH Sprite.

Fitting front disc brakes or a later rib-case transmission would not be frowned upon in most places, and such upgrades are easily returned to OE spec if desired.

Black with red/black interior would look really sporty, and very "early '60's"... I see that the wheels are the original type also (round holes). They weren't red originally, but they sure would look good in red with your car's scheme. (See John Moore's sig photo above).

Midget63 Wrote:

Body colour black (code BK.1) on GAN1 Midgets:
Seats: red, seat piping: black.
Liners: red.
Hood (soft top): grey.
Tonneau cover: red.
Hardtop: grey or Old English White
Door seals: red.
Carpets/mats: black/red fleck.

OR:

Seats: red, seat piping: grey.
Liners: red.
Hood: black.
Tonneau cover: black.
Hard top: grey or OEW
Door seals: red.
Carpet/mats: red.

According to "Original Sprite and Midget", the change-over from black carpets to red was at chassis# GAN1-10742 (Mar 1962). The information I have is very vague about the exact colour of each different interior panel, but it seems the vinyl in the footwells followed the carpet colour. This means that your car would have been like the one on the photo I uploaded. Again a BMIHT Certificate would give the correct answer.
(The same "problem" exist with Tartan Red GAN1's: these too have duo-tone interiors and it's difficult to ascertain which panel has what colour.) But indeed: you'll have to order two different sorts of upholstery material. The original carpet and rubber matting is unfortunately unavailable now.

As for your engine#: this would indicate early December 1961.

Gearbox: easy to overhaul except for the synchro-mesh rings (cone-type instead of baulk-ring). Might be easier to swap for a ribcase (has someone ever tried to install the innards of a ribcase into a smoothcase housing ?). Don't take a Bugeye gearbox as a replacement as it has different gearing.

Wheels: silver grey originally.

Hope this may be of use.

Nick

Thanks Nick. The picture is really worth a thousand words. Maybe the thing to do is use currently available material, but try to follow the original color scheme.

I finished tearing down the motor today. It appears to have been gone through at least one other time, but there are some problem areas. A couple bearings show deep scoring. Cylinder walls look nice however.



These are the only numbers I found on the gear box. 2A368 VAF5


Biggest problem with the gearbox is the gearlever extension turret. It is seized. Completely rusted. And missing some bolts where someone tried to remove the shift lever, but could not get it out. Maybe the main tranny is buildable, and I can just find a replacement turret.

Jason,
About the engine: DO NOT remove the half-moon shaped casting on top of the rear main bearing (attached with three wire-locked bolts) !!!!
If you do; this will ruin the proper functioning of the rear crankshaft oil seal and the engine will leak oil like the Exxon Valdez....
(And this means line-boring the main bearings to rectify !)

About the gearbox: the number you discovered is just the casting number of the housing (one digit up the actual part number which is 2A3367). Good news on the turret: GAN1 Midgets have the same turrets as Bugeyes, so these should be easily found (on e-Bay ?).

All the best,

Nick

Jason, Your car did not come with carpet, it was vinal/rubber. As for the trans, I have the origional smooth case in mine and it works perfect. Parts are hard to come by but it may not be as bad as u think. I run drums on all four corners with no problems. Great car. Mine is about 3500 units after yours so let me know what you need help with. Best of luck. By the way the wheels came gray/silver.

Dave

Moss will custom make an interior in any color material, or piping they have (for a slight upcharge), so getting exactly what you need will just cost a little more time on the phone with them... and a little more money.

A friend of mine rebuilds Midget transmissions, and I think he told me he's put ribcase innards in a smoothcase before (smoothcase parts cost more) to satisfy someone who wanted to keep the smoothcase.

Midget63 Wrote:

"So sorry old chap, but these are British made cars: there is always a bit of amateur hack job on board...." 8^)

But seriously; don't ask why I know you shouldn't undo the half moon shaped seal !
I paid extreme care when re-assembling the engine and so far mine doesn't leak. But this is all a rather hit or miss affair. To be absolute certain only line-boring obtains a 100% concentricity needed to have a proper working seal.
There are after market kits (usually containing lips seals) which help for a few miles/years, but invariably they start leaking again.

(Like the main bearing caps, this half-moon shaped upper seal is part of the engine block. They form a unit so to speak. There isn't even a parts number in the factory manuals for these which indicate yuo couldn't obtain them seperately)

Nick.

Midget63 Wrote:

Indeed: that is the correct sequence !

Now about the rest of the ritual: I can't tell, I'm Dutch we have an even worse kitchen than the English !!!
But I'm sure it can't do any harm......8^)
(We used a broom tied to the mast to sweep the English Navy from the seas though ! But this won't help much I guess....)

I do have a question. I aquired a 63 MK I Midget and plan on restoring it and putting it back to close to original. Mine currently has the chrome trim removed, painted like a 68/70 model with that year badging and grill so I know the grill on mine is wrong but is this grill on this 61 wrong also? My research and every MK I Midget I've seen have a grill with verticle chrome bars (similiar to what B's had). The VIN on mine is also GAN2 with the rest of the numbers falling in the 1963 model year. This is also my first Brit Iron and I'm in the local Brit club. Just want to be sure for my car. The one in the picture in the thread appears to me to be a Sprite grill on a Midget.

Wendell,
You're right. All Mark 1 Midgets should have the chrome slatted grille. Both your car (built around April 1963) and Jason's have an Austin Healey Sprite grill.
Do you have more details of your GAN2 ?

(On much later cars both Midget and Sprite indeed used the same model grill)
This is how they looked at the assembly line:

So, the grille in the picture produktie3.jpg is for a 61 midget? If not, does someone have a picture of the correct one?

the motor is going to the machine shop today. Any special instructions for them? I have the rear seal thingy back on, and will explain that item. So, anything else to look out for?

Thanks everyone.

Yep, that's the correct grille, the car you're working on has a Sprite grille. It's a common replacement because the correct grille is a lot more expensive to replace, $430 at Victoria British. I restored a friend's '64 Midget and luckily we were able to put together a good original grille using a couple of damaged ones. The Midget grille is a lot classier!

Hilarious. Naturally, I removed it. I actually looked at the wire locks, and thought that was odd, must be some kind of amateur hack job. Ok. 2 options; put it back on, and have the machine shop line hone it, or, find a retro fit kit to fix it.

Who offers rear main kits to "correct" the design flaw? (what is the joke, if there is only 2 drops of oil on the garage floor, the car is out of oil?)


The scroll cap can be removed on a rebuild. In fact it has to be. There is a thin paper gasket between it and the case. On reassembly you can use Aviation Form -a - gasket or Hylonar instead of the gasket. Position the scroll cap using a straight edge laid down the main saddles with the main caps torqued. Use a .001" narrow feeler gage blade and a flashlight at 10, 6 and 2 o'clock. For a street motor you can use the lock plates under the bolt heads. Reposition the cap to .000 clearance at the straight edge. Dont wast your time with the aftermarket rear main seal kits.