Blowing blue after head rebuild. Question about reliability...

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Mar 23, 2008 20:17:07
cgill

Howdy folks,

I recently had the head completely rebuilt on my 71 GT. Since then I've noticed a significant increase in the blue smoke belching out the back. I know that the increased compression is pulling oil past the pistons so that means a rebuild. However, I'm not planning on doing that until this fall so my question is, should I stay close to home this summer because there's a possibility the GT could keel over and die, or is it not really that big of a deal so drive it 400 km or so to Vancouver for the All British Field Meet in May??

My trusty MG mechanic says "stay close to home" but I'd like a second, third and even 20th opinion.

Thanks!
Chris

Mar 23, 2008 20:32:20
sailadams

I don't get no respect. My doctor told me I had six months to live. I asked him if he'd mind if I got a second opinion. He said, "No. You're ugly, too." -Rodney Dangerfield





Mar 23, 2008 21:27:24
willie3051

Had blue smoke too after a rebuild. Was caused by bad valve stem seals. The seals were the stock type and new but they don't work well. This could be the problem with your car.

Mar 23, 2008 21:30:13
pmittler

Chris... I did what you did. Rebuilt the head then drove it with bad rings. Result? Smoke. So much that o one wanted to follow me in a convoy.
Further Result:
The oil carboned up number 4 exhaust, caused it to burn (I guess a piece of junk stuck the valve open) and the end result was a nice triangular shaped 'V' in the edge of the exhaust valve.

Cost, TWO HEAD REBUILDS.

Why not save yourself 1 head rebuild and not drive it until you do the rest of the job.

Mar 23, 2008 21:54:55
cgill

Thanks William. I have already thought of that and will be looking into it.

Darn Peter, that's not what I want to hear!!! But you're right. I may even start the rebuild this summer which will be unfortunate but probably the best thing in the long run.

Mar 24, 2008 06:27:27
PaulM


To Bad Chris,

Sounds like your not going on Gary's Run.

Mar 24, 2008 06:37:23
twigworker

Chris, was it smoking before the head work was done? If so the original oiling to the cylinders could have been by way of the rings and/or the guides. If not, I would suggest that you figure on the rings being okay and that the "new" guides are allowing oil to pass through, either because of too much clearance or inadequate/improperly installed seals.

The quick fix for the seal deal is to pull the rocker assembly, run each piston to TDC in turn and add compressed air through the plug bosses. With the compressed air in the chambers and the piston at TDC it is not difficult to remove the valve springs and install Chevy seals on top of the guides. Theortically you only need to do the intakes but doing all of the guides will tell you more about what is going on. Anyway, stick the Chevy seals on everybody and see what you have. If the smoking stops after fifty miles or so then you know that the rings are okay and that the guide/sealing was the problem. You can just leave everything alone with the Chevy seals in place until you get around to doing the bottom end.

BTW: "The rings" include both compression and oil control rings. Each does a completely different duty. You can have great compression rings but if the bottom oil control ring is weak oil will be shuttled up into the combustion chambers and smoke will ensue. Conversely, if the oil control rings are good and the compression rings up top are weak that will allow compressed gasses to pass down into the crankcase, pressurize that volume and cause oil leaks at the seals and gaskets and force oil laden vapors out into the intake system.

Jack

Mar 24, 2008 07:25:46
underdog

I've seen & heard of this time and again. Seal up the head & the worn bottom blows oil. I did a valve job on a friends 71 this summer. New guides,seats ect.
Seemed fine at first but. He just came back from driving it from Pittsburgh to Orlando & back. Says he was constantly dumping oil in it. Other than that, it ran great.

Mar 24, 2008 07:30:06
cgill

You're right Paul. Unfortunately I won't be on Gary's run which is a huge bummer.

Jack, thanks so much for the great advice (that's what is so good about this board!). The GT was blowing blue before the head job (especially on startup) but the amount increased quite a bit afterwards so I expect it's not the new guides.

Cheers,
Chris

Mar 24, 2008 12:08:57
twigworker

Got it! I suggest that you do a quick down and dirty fix.

Pull the engine, drop the pan and take the head off. Undo the rods and push the pistons out. Don't look at the ring lands except to clean them. Don't pull the cam or cam followers. Stick a set of Deve's rings on the pistons, run a dingle-berry hone up and down inside the bores a few times. Borrow a ridge reamer to take the ridge off the top of the bores if it is really bad and put it all back together with a new set of rod bearings.

When you do the hone thing take care to turn the crank so that the individual rod throws are down while you work on that cylinder. OIl up the bores with cutting oil when you stick the hone in. Also drape a shop towel over the crank while you are doing all of this. Before sticking things back together put a big tray under the block and wash the bores down with lots of clean kerosene and clean cotton cloths to get as much of the ground down iron and cutting stuff off as you can. Take a few minutes to make sure that the tappet cover breather is clear too.

When you get it back together run it for twenty miles or so and do another oil and filter change to get the remainder of the gunk out of the system.

This is not the way to overhaul and engine but you can do it in one Saturday and get twenty or thirty thousand miles out of it, or maybe more, depending on what the mains and cam and followers and oil pump are like.

Cost? Rod bearings, top and bottom end gasket set, down pipe gaskets, the rings, oil, filter and antifreeze. My guess without looking things up is that you can do it for less than $225.00.

Mar 24, 2008 12:17:41
cgill

Holy crap Jack! I got winded just reading your post. That's a great idea. I may see if I can pull that off and do a full blown overhaul this winter. Thanks again for the great advice.

Ever think of moving to Salmon Arm? I'm sure I could keep you pretty busy with the GT projects!

Cheers,
Chris

Mar 24, 2008 12:40:25
pmittler

And if you can get the pan off (RB car owners take note) this can actually be done witht he engine in place without pulling the lump.

Chris.. you might make Gary's Run yet!

Mar 24, 2008 14:22:51
TKMad

I did what Jack is suggesting and the car has 50K on it since then and still no smoke! Rings and bearings are a great idea and you can do it without pulling the engine if you don't mind working under the car for a bit.

Mar 24, 2008 14:30:32
cgill

Okay now I'm feeling peer pressure! I was planning to pull the engine this fall to paint the engine bay, do the rings, etc. and install the new OD tranny I purchased. I think I'll stick with that plan for now...at least for today....

Thanks again for all the great advice and info.

Chris

Mar 24, 2008 15:25:59
twigworker

Chris, I stopped off in Vancouver and out on Hornbey Island about thirty years ago on one of my "trips" after driving out from Calgary. Absolutely loved it! Fine folks and terrific ambiance. I would move back there in a NY second if life hadn't gotten in the way. If Kathleen throws me out I think I'll gather up my stuff and mosey on back out there.

Give me a beer or two and I'll tell you about the time a friend and I decided to go kayaking in Vancouver. I think it was called False Bay or something like that. Anyway, it was around midnight and we had been inhaling some relaxation when out of the blackness came a HUGE barge. You ain't never seen a country boy from North Carolina flail water with a paddle like I did! LOL

Other stories to follow sometime. :-)

Jack

Mar 24, 2008 15:48:47
Rufus

THIS JUST IN!
As a result of reading Jack's concise instructions on a quick and (somewhat) easy ring job, the Twigworker has been promoted to Foreman of the Shade Tree Mechanics Guild.
Keep up the good work.
And PLEASE,,,
Have fun

Mar 24, 2008 17:20:45
cgill

Jack, that's a good way to become splatter on the front of a barge and is something akin to having a picnic on the side of the interstate!

We actually live in the interior of BC, away from all the hustle and bustle. Lots of windy roads and warm swimming lakes. It's bliss, except for all the potholes and slow drivers!

Peter, I don't think I'd try the overhaul with the lump in because I could just see me leaving a bunch of nice big scratches on the wings because I tend to get distracted easily.

Chris
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