Call me a Heretic, and burn me at the stake!!!

I must confess;
I am well into my 78B ground up restoration. $15000 up to now, including the car, paint, parts. All the labor is gratis by me. I am looking at my little engine that the PO spent a lot of money on a real rebuild, at a real British shop. Only 3000 miles since the work was done. I have additional new engine parts all over including a Pepco, and a Weber Outlaw. I was budgeting another $1200 to finish the engine and try to make it run faster, and another $2000 for a 5 speed trany conversion.
I went to a British car show in Titusville a couple of weeks back, and saw a GM V6 conversion. The kit was slick. The car was fast. A new GM 3.4 crate engine is $1700. T5 tranys are common. This engine has more HP, and torque than a Rover V8. What am I thinking? Spend a ton of money more on the original engine, and get eaten by a Mazda Miata. The GM V6 is starting to look better every day.
Now comes my dilemma. My restoration is very original, but I want a fast car. Will a V6 conversion cause me to be declared "HERETIC" ? Will the villagers from the MGB experience descend upon my garage, torches and sickles in hand, and drag me to the burning stake?
Help. David

If you want a really quick car for the money your probably better off swaping over to a more modern vehicle.

You might gain speed and horsepower, but it won't drive and sound like a MGB. Have you spend much time behind the wheel of an original mg yet ? If you have, you know what I mean. mike

The great thing about MGBs is their handling, not the 0-60 speed. If you want a drag racer, that's one thing. If you want a lot of power AND handling that's another. What are your goals for the car? You can always drop in the engine you have and see what it actually drives like BEFORE considering the V6. It obviously won't be the same as before the restoration!

We got a place for your kind around here.... http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/list.php?40

LOL!

Have you considered the Moss Supercharger? It does have an MG logo on it :D

I'd personally stick with the Rover. Owning this sort of car is not about the speed.

I'd say that it's you car, you can do what you want with it, but if it were me, I'd leave in the MG engine.

Tarring and feathering maybe, no burning at the stake. That's barbaric.

Lonnie

I have owned 4 MG's. I have put 10,000 miles on my 80B in the past 18 months. It only came home on a hook once, when the Pertronix croaked.
I can see the torches of the villagers down in the valley!

I'm with Dan. Its a '78, so its not considered by many to be at the pennicle of MGB's. Make it just what you want it to be. You are already well past the point of ever recouping your investment. Customize the car the way you want it and enjoy it for what you made it. You could have bought a nice trailer queen for $17,000.00 if that is what you wanted. I would rather dirve it like I stole it.

I'm going to really get it for this one...but... Its a Rubber Bumper B, so do whatever you want to it... :D

In all seriousness, it doesn't matter whether it is an MGA, early B, or a RB car. Whatever it is, it is your car, so do whatever the heck you want to it. Paint it lime green if you must. As long as you are happy, that is all that matters. There will always be people that see a car and hate it. Some will hate it because it is stock. Others will hate it because the lugnuts aren't OEM.

If someone starts to cry about it, then make sure to wave as you blast past them....

If it is done right (and looking at the pictures of your car it should be) on a RB it can always be put back stock. With the kits that are out there you do not even have to remove the stock motor mounts. The suspension, cooloing etc. all stay the same.

If you do this, there will always be a certain segment of the mg enthusiasts that will turn their nose up at it. Who cares? "Hearing" your thoughts I think you've already decided that you really want to do the v6. The cool thing about the v6 kits is that there's nothing that can't be reversed, but there's no way you would ever go back to the 1800. The car will handle just as well since there's almost no weight penalty. I say go for it!

Beatiful looking work so far!

Even if the car is done RIGHT and righteous and perfect..... somebody will still say something is wrong (or not "correct") --- ask Wray.

Your RB MGB with a V6 can be made to handle better than the stock CB MGBs. The stuff is out there - go as nuts as you want -can afford- to.

ClayJ Wrote:

Oh boy! I just got a new torch last week. Been wantin to try that baby out.
Like my Mom used to say, "To each his own, said the old woman as she kissed the cow".
But no matter what,
Have fun

lbcnut Wrote:

moreso74 Wrote:

First of all, don't underestimate the number of problems you will encounter by swapping in an engine that isn't original (or pseudo-original, in the case of the Rover V8). All sorts of extra problems will emerge ranging from speedometer to hooking up the heater controls. None of these are insurmountable, but you will take a *lot* longer to do the restore.

If you really want power, please remember that BL deliberately detuned the Rover V8 to have *less* power than the original Buick engine. It would be really easy to up the V8's output to exceed that of the 6 cylinder you are contemplating. That would give you power and authenticity.

But I mostly agree with what everybody else says. I have an MGB and my wife a Miata. I love both cars. But my MGB is happiest being what it is - a super handling, decently peppy LBC. I doubt I could do enough to the 18GK engine to even get it close to the Miata's output. The MG lacks two gears and the rear independent suspension. The amazing part is how close the MG comes to the Miata when driven in a capable fashion.

So, if my two cents is worth anything, do a few things to your stock engine to add 10 to 20 HP.

Finish your resto on the B with what ever mods you want to make on the motor and enjoy it for what it is that way.

Then...

Look for another car with a bad engine, sell the engine and transmission, and make a meaner street machine out of IT. Do a V6 conversion with the right transmission, add Sebring valances front and rear and a bright yellow paint job, stick some Miata seats in it and throw the top away.

That's what I am going to do. You can enjoy the OEM B as the Lord intended and then go thrash the converted car when you need some real release.

Jack

Well, you could opt for a Mazda 13B Wankle engine. With a good turbo an a little work on the porting it should be good for 320 - 350 BHP. Tack weld the stationary gears in the rotors and the red line would be in the area of 10 - 11k. The weight would be half or less than the B iron engine. Not to many Miatas will come close :-)

Ken

What a bunch of garbage. THe V6 engine is the same weight as the MGB 4 cylinder, with aluminum heads maybe lighter. Fuel injected models get up to 180 HP and on REGULAR gas. Exhaust sounds great. This is the engine that should have been put in the car in the first place, had irt been available. I can not understand why anyone would want to spend thousands of dollars breathing on an old B series engine that is an antique. maybe you can get 115 Hp out of it, then you can barely drive it on the street and it will need premium gas and the v6 will dust it off anytime straight roads or curves..... If you want Toyota electric cars to blow your doors off at every stoplight keep the old 4 banger. The handling with a v6 will not be affected why should it be??. If you go to a 215 Rover ( old buick engine from the 60s) you have heating problems exhaust pipes through holes cut in the inner fenders. The 3.4 v6 in a MGB is a great car. My 73 is going that route very soon. It can always be reverted back to a 4 cylinder post 2nd world war 2 engine ... but why would you want to?...

David wrote (in the initial post) "This engine has more HP, and torque than a Rover V8."

Be careful throwing around that sort of generalization!

Although the GM V6 is certainly an EXCELLENT option, the generalization is misleading. The problem is you've compared two models of engine that vary quite a lot from installation to installation. The GM factory ships their V6 crate engines without induction or exhaust system, so until you at least defined those variables you can't know the HP or torque they'll produce. The Rover aluminum V8 can be purchased newly professionally rebuilt and in a crate too... in displacements right up to 4.9L.

This car was built with a Rover 4.9L "crate" engine: http://www.britishv8.org/MG/DonColeman.htm

As 4.6L RangeRovers are hitting more and more junkyards, you're going to see more 4.6L-and-larger MGB V8's. For the record, I'm not advocating going one way versus the other. (Just do it for the right reasons, accurately-stated.) Certainly either engine option will weigh about the same as the MG B-series engine, and certainly either engine will produce gobs more torque. You'll also enjoy having a proper fifth gear.

---

With that out of the way...

You're going to find out that the V6/V8 crowd is exceptionally helpful and FRIENDLY. It's a real pity you missed our meet last month! You would have been so warmly welcomed. We invite everyone to attend whether they're engine swappers or not. (One of our "members" has attended eight out of our eleven meets, each year bringing his 4-cylinder MGB. He just hasn't found time to do an engine swap yet.)

You CAN read all about the meet (14 articles of coverage) in our FREE online newsletter: http://www.britishv8.org/British-V8-Current-Issue.htm

"why anyone would want to spend thousands of dollars breathing on a old B series engine that is an antique" ...color me crazy

If I'm not mistaken the whole car is an antique. Who would want to go that fast in an antique :)

On the other hand: one of the great sports car racers commenting on a 911 said something to the effect that the 911 was a pig; no matter how much you spend it wouldn't be a race horse; but you could make a damn fast pig.

I've owned a number of B's and never felt they were underpowered... then last week I went to CA and drove Bill Guzman's 3.4 V6.

I want one.

Bill says that installed, his 3.4 and T5 trans weighs 28 lbs less than the car did with its 1.8L MG lump, and its weight balance is now 51%F, 49%R.

Bill's conversion is 100% reversible if you decide to go back to original.

I want one.

Go for it.

My vote is keep as original as possible, or at least where it could be returned to original.

Why make it something it wasn't designed to be? Just buy a car that was designed for that purpose.

Thank my lucky stars!!!!!
The villiagers with their torches, axles, picks, and sickles were getting farther up the valley. I was preparing to wrap my 18V complete with Oberg lift around my neck, and jump into the dismal sump, lest they take me.
Nice to see some support!!
Be kind. I once lived in Canada!!
David

I'm going to side with those who say do what you want, it's your car. My car is not correct in any way, and I really could care less what people think or say. Do what makes you happy. Life is too short for what the Pebble Beach people think.

I think the V6 is a GREAT option! I am split 50/50 though:(. BUT, I will probably go the 3.4 V6 route, because I have a feeling that my B-series will need some work in the near future. The fact that it can be reversed, is AMAYZING!


peace, Kyle

Answer:

Because some folks have appreciation for things that are Second World War vintage and not up to the moment, zoomy, super fast, rumba-rumba, boy street racer, street fighters.

This is coming from a guy who likes to think that he appreciates both. As noted above I plan on having one of each so I qualify for admission to both parties.

BTW: Have you ever made love with a woman over the age of fifty? No comparison! LOL

Jack

PS: Sorry for the sexist remark. LOL

I was noticing the bullet mirrors on the restored red car, I had those type of mirrors (in the same location) on my 73 years ago and could not see a thing out of them, have you put a seat in the car and tried to see if they are functional?

Like my old Florida friend's car

more

I had two friends in Florida that converted to GM V6. Pics of the best car of the two. Go for it, the black car in pics was really fast, perfection in the restoration(except engine conversion). It was a wild ride and always beat out another friends rover V8.

more of 1968 V6 conversion

Yup

It's your car, just do it. You will have a wild ride and you'll love every minute of it. Handling won't suffer, from the outside it'll still look and feel like a B, but what a sleeper. That black 68 in the pics was really sweet. He sold it later back to the original owners for $15,000.

"I can not understand why anyone would want to spend thousands of dollars breathing on an old B series engine that is an antique."

Like one of my TR buddies said as we were looking at a TR6 with a SB Ford " If I wanted a Ford, I'd a bought a Ford" He did,sometime after that statement, buy a Mustang Cobra for his daily driver.
Personally, I find enjoyment in the challenge of researhing and figureing stuff out. Not to sound like braging but I also get pleasure in haveing a 4cyl that is faster than most. Stuffing in a late model drive train just seems like cheating or taking the easy way out. IMO it now becomes a street rod and not a classic car.

I think the Rover V8 swaps are more widely accepted since they were originally done by the factory. Also the engine is of British manufacture regaurdless of it's GM orgins. I once thought about getting a RB car to do the V8 in. Instead I bought the TR8 that had it factory installed and saved a bunch of money & agravation.

In the end though, as others have said, it's your car, do as you please. These are only some of my thoughts on the subject.

WEll;
It seems that we stimulated a lot of thought provoking comments.
I will let my new baby speak for herself!!




" FEED ME "

IMHO i think any "car" guy will appreciate the changes if they are done the RIGHT way no matter what the vehicle is....Ive seen way to many botched jobs in cars over the years it makes me wanna puke.........Id love to put a V6 in mine. Point is if it is done right most will just marvel at it and not snicker

just my 2 cents

canuck Wrote:

lbcnut Wrote:

moreso74 Wrote:

If you do the conversion, I'll take your old engine! :)

My original point was this - why not assemble the car "as-is" for now and take the next year to acquire all the parts you nned for a conversion. That way you can drive it and work out all the bugs, like toughening up the brakes, considering a stronger rear axle with better gearing, picking out a tach that works, etc... You may decide you don't need more power once you get behind the wheel (who are we kidding). With that said, I have a 3.5L on a stand sitting next to my B!

racer76 Wrote:

danmas Wrote:

I would go for the GM V6 about 160-170hp stock, I would go with the 3.4 and T5 combo and run the efi, dollar for dollar its cheaper and more reliable than a stock MGB engine or a Rover V8 and will cost far less for the amount of HP gained

the V6 kits require no moodifications to the car that can't be reversed with some minor welding

as far as the comments about MGBs not meant to be fast but are all about the handling.....its a rubber bumper B...possibly the worst handling British car ever made, unless you spend some time a money and get sway bars ect, I should know I have had at least 30 rubber bumper Bs

as far as the Rover V8s only 145 hp (stock early b has 98)...stay away from them, they are junk and you will be dissapointed because you will still get whipped by a stock mini van driven by a soccer mom, I built several bad ass Rover V8s and had 5 k or more into them just to make 250hp

spend the $ and get the V6 and the T5 transmission then sell your MGB engine


as far as not driving like an MGB...well it won't... it will be better and not leave you on the side of the road, driving my Nissan powered MGB is a great pleasure, going to Laguna Seca for the races is fun now...with the stock MGB engine I was always a little nervous that I would be getting there and I work on these cars for a living!!

don't get me wrong...I have driven MGBs in stock form very very far...Colorado from Ca, Ca to New Mexico , but having a good modern engine just makes the car more fun to drive

knowing that you can jump in and not having to worry is a huge relief

Eric,

There can be only two reasons why you can outrun V8 cars with the original 4-banger - either the V8 guys are not as good a driver as you are, or their cars are not properly set up.

Putting a lightweight V8 or a V6 into an MGB will not compromise the handling. Anything you can do to your car to improve handling and/or braking can also be done to the conversions. Any hop-up techniques you can apply to your 4-bangor can also be applied to a V8 or a V6. In the end, the only differences between a well set-up V8/V6 and a 4-bangor is power. If the V8/V6 engines are set-up well, they will, without a doubt, have more power. More power is not by any stretch a detriment to performance, either on the street, the race track, or the drag strip.

If you are outrunning V8s, more power to you - it's a tribute to your driving skill (or a nod to the lack of skill for the competition). However, as fast as you may be, you'd be faster with a V8/V6 in your MGB (I noticed there weren't any MGB V6/V8 conversions on your list).

I say go for it. I will be doing a V6 conversion on mine when my 4 banger dies... which will be very soon I'm afraid. I decided mostly due to wanting a 5 spd...when you figure how much a 5 spd conversion is plus a good rebuild on the B motor it seems that you will be money ahead by doing the V6 swap. Plus I would like the extra power for longer trips. To get anywhere in the southern part of this state you have to tackle some pretty high mountain passes and it would make it more enjoyable experiance not to have to wind out my car to stay with traffic.

I do enjoy my B stock, but have a hard time convincing myself to keep it that way....that said, at some point I would like to get a GT and it will probably stay original.

Bill, I was just thinking the same thing about the 5-speed. The V6 swap is not just an engine swap, it's also the T5 transmission too. I would say you are correct. Even if you take the original engine out and take it apart, the parts and machining+5-speed(Datsun?) transmission, would cost alot. It's something to think about, thats for sure!


peace, Kyle

As already stated, it's your car; build it the way you want. There's enough MGB's out there to satisfy those who like their cars to look original and those who prefer to make them a little different.

There will always be those who look upon modified cars as "non-MGB's" but keep in mind, the next stage in the B's evolution was the MG RV8, built by the factory using B bodyshells, Rover 3.9's and a five-speed 'box. Who's to say if the B had stuck around what evolutionary changes we would have seen? I think those of who modify our cars are only continuing the spirit that Cecil Kimber started with a Morris.

Without him, we may never have seen the likes of MG.

danmas Wrote:

KEEP a really nice MG as ORIGINAL. If you want a fast, high performanace burner, THEN FIND a derelict, inexpensive car and BUILD a V8 conversion. See my last one here: http://www.britishv8.org/MG/ChuckWiegle.htm

I've seen many well done V6 Conversions pictured on this forum, but I don't believe it takes a huge amount of extra work to use say, a small block v8 Ford or Chevy. I personally would want the extra cubic inches of the V8 if I was going to spend the time and effort on a conversion, and trust me, it's a LOT of time and work, but work it. C

i agree with alan. those mirrors are awful.

I had some bullet mirrors on the doors once, and I agree, they were difficult to use. On my red V8 car (see my previous post 2 back/above), I positioned them on the front fenders, and they worked great there. C