Disgusted

I just watched Montel this AM. He had a wounded Sgt. on the show. He had severe burns on 50% of his body from a roadside bomb. He has had over 40 surgeries, new ears, facial tissue rearranged to a somewhat acceptable manner but needs more. Loss of fingers, etc, no hair. What disgusts me is that he has had to pay for his surgeries, the government has paid for just a portion of the surgeries. With all the billions we are spending to shove democracy down the throats of others can't we at least use some of it to repair and heal our wounded soldiers? They should not have to spend a dime for their health care. They also should not have to pay for their Purple Heart Medal, but they do.

I don't often agree with you Peter but I'm with you 100% on this!

AMEN

My heart bleeds for all the fine young people that have been lost or maimed in this war. James Gandolfini had a wonderful (not really the proper word) program on HBO where he talked (or rather listened to) many of these young people that have been permantly disfigured by this war. It was enough to make your heart break.

George Herschell

We had burn patients returning from Vietnam too, and I got to see some of them at Brooke General when I served there. Marines, Navy, Army, Air Force guys. There is nothing like a trip through a burn ward to impress upon someone what the real cost of war, any war, is. Remember, those poor guys will live with this for the rest of their lives, even if we don't have to. More than the billions of dollars we have gone in debt, the price of this or any other war is paid by real people with real injuries or death. It is still disturbing to me when I hear the sabres rattle ~ I see those boys we took care of at Brooke and I just get incensed that we have learned NOTHING about the price of our adventures. The truly disgusting part to me has always been how easy it is for those who have never been to war to declare it.

Morning Peter, not to disagree with you on the state of treatment towards our returning wounded soldiers, but was wondering where your info on buying his own purple heart came from. Did he say that on the show? I served for twenty years and don't recall ever paying for a earned medal. Luckily I didn't earn a purple heart though.

......Montel???

Peter I agree with you about the medical treatment our troops "are not" receiving and I find it so sad. I do wonder about the change in Purple Heart holders though. The hubby is a Purple Heart recipient and he did not have to pay $$$ for it. I sure hope our troops are not having to pay for their medals.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2399

This has been getting me steamed for years. Nobody cares (within reason) how much tax money it costs to make these vets as comfortable as possible, yet we keep hearing these sorts of stories. Politics should have nothing to do with this issue as 99% of everyone agrees on this.

http://www.votevets.org/index_html

The media keeps focusing on the number killed. If they focused on the number maimed, a much greater number, our government would have no choice but to tell businesses such as Haliburton that the U.S. military is not available to serve their agendas.

You cannot give democracy to the population of other nations. Democracy is something that those people have to want and be willing to fight for.
A fairly modern example is Romania. When the people said no more to their dictator, they executed him.

Amen, Kimberly! Far too many are coming back with terrible injuries that are not being given good, or timely care. These men and women deserve to receive the cutting-edge-best medical care this country has to offer, and get paid full salary while they are disabled.

And when it comes out, just what is happening to our vets, everyone in govt who has anything to do with it are shocked.

I am not thrilled with what we may have to choose from in the up coming election, But I know one thing we will never have as big an ASS HOLE as bush,

And if anyone does not like that statement, go to some other post, Lee Havey where are you not that we could use you

Paul

As much as I was opposed to the Viet Nam war, the gulf war, and all war in general, there is absolutely no reason that the ones injured, maimed, and scarred for life should have to suffer any monetary loss for their duty. It is totally against everything that this country stands for. They have given more of themselves than this country should ask. We who have benefited from their sacrifice should provide the best of care and all assistance that we can. It's not a political thing, it's a justice thing.

I shall step down from my soap box now.

Help Janel!

Unfortunately this war has nothing to do with democracy or terrorism for that matter, just good ole capitolism! Oil and personnal vendetta, two things the Bush clan understand well!

I am not sure I understand how he would have been required to pay for the surgeries. I did not watch a Montel show but it does not seem to be accurate. I read the article posted here and understand the shortage of medals although that would be a failing of the system not the administration. If someone watched it did it explain why he paid. Does not make sence. The administration has been pumping money into the VA for this but may not be getting results.

6863m....way to go,..ya show up and stifle a perfectly good out of control emotional rant...we even had a sniper rifle about to appear... ..when E.F. Montel speaks....couch potatoes listen....

Capitalism and oil...please explain? Where's the oil?

No expense should be spared on our brave soldiers!

Liberal, conservative, or don't care . . . anyone who serves this country and risks their life doing so, deserves to pay not one cent for their medical expenses. Especially those related to being injured in the service.

My Dad is 87 years old, was a Naval lieutenant in the Pacific in 1944-45, fought at Leyte Gulf (biggest naval battle in history) and stared up at kamikaze planes diving right at him for days while he ferried troops from ship to shore. He said he was never so scared in his whole life. Today, he's sick, old, and tired. I think his medical expenses should be partly borne by his government. He's get some Medicare, and thank God for that, but he has lots of other expenses to deal with, too.

I think this country ought to work out a deal with its veterans: If you risk your life for a full tour of duty, the country will pay ALL your legitimate medical bills for the rest of your life. Of course, I kind of think we ought to do that for all our citizens. I also don't think homeless vets is something we ought to be proud of -- but then I don't think homeless anyone is something we ought to be proud of.

DrewM...we agree on something, all my 3 uncles saw action in WWII...

Was this soldier a National Guardsman. There may be an issue about the medical coverage when you call up a National Guardsman who is really under the Governor until offered up for active duty. It used to be that you could not call up an individual Guardsman like you could an Army reservist. You had to call the enitrie unit. Maybe it was a timing issue. Personally I would hope it made no difference and could be dealt with between the Federal Government and the State without the soldier even knowing what was going on in the background. I think the country has done quite a lot for veterans over the years and actually is doing more now than they have since the second world war.

So why doesn't our outrage do anything? Simple. We vote for the people who send them there but don't give a rat's ass about them after we use them. Same as it ever was, ie VN. Same thing every time. Vote them out, if it means something to you. Otherwise we're just pissing and moaning. Same as ever. Not that I have an opinion about it. -Larry

Larry, it is just not true that the admin doesn't give a rats ass. Actually the truth is Bush cares more than any recent President. The families he meets with give him very high marks.

DrewM Wrote:

Amen, Eric!

Seems to me that our convicted prisoners are better treated than our vets. BTW, I've never been a prisoner but I am a vet.

Cheers - Dennis

To most people, supporting the troops involves buying a ribbon magnet at a convenience store and slapping it on the back of their car.

It's a goddamn travesty, these men and women have given almost everything they have for their country and are treated like lepers by the same bureaucracy that sent them to some Godforsaken sand dune of a country to be shot at and bombed.

I definitely don't agree with this war but I think that the treatment of our vets is shocking and revolting.

Have we even won a war since WWII? I mean besides that silly Gulf War thing in the 90's, that was kind of a joke.

Is everyone basing their disgust on the Montel show or is based on some investigation showing where the Administration and Congress are treating the military wounded poorly. I don't assume to understand some of the comments. I usually like to read and then go check the facts.

6863m Wrote:

What difference does it make if it was Montel show. Just because it was the montel show, some disagree with the reporting. The vet himself was telling his story. Do you doubt him? It seems to me that if the vet was in your living room live and in person, you would doubt his story. Where did he get his facts. Gee, I don't know, maybe the Sears catalog. He got his facts from his own life and experiences. I have no reason to doubt the guy. Oh I guess that he could have gone to a Hollywood special effects studio and had them create the horribly disfigured head and face, but I doubt it.

Pete It makes no difference at all, the problem is some will defend the president and his obvious failed policy's no matter what. Did we or did we not recently have a scandel involving the treatment our wounded vets received.My dad was very involved with the American Legion he fought for vet's benefits and that was when we were not at war! What about some of the treatment our reservist's received? Right wing republicans would have you believe that the media or the dem's are distorting the facts, they have a record of singing that same worn out tune.The facts are the facts and you hit the nail square on the head,that even if the truth was stareing them straight in the face,they would try to make excuses.Dont ever think its not political because it is,we were taking into this war under false pretences and the guy responsible is up in some mountain hiding.That's the fact!No matter how hard some try to dispute it the truth will always come out. The word is responsibility and doing what is right for the country and i for one have not seen that.

Steve - I may disagree that the guy in the mountain got us into this war - I think that was the Afganistan one! The guy from Texas got us into the Iraq one!

However, I agree the treatment of Vets is despicable. My stepson is a Navy vet, and did two tours to the Gulf. His medical coverage is so poor, it isn't even worth bothering with! I hate to think what kind of situation he would be in if he had been seriously injured!

We owe it to the folks who put their life on the line - not to the politicians who seem to think they deserve it!

Limey Wrote:

"Pete It makes no difference at all, the problem is some will defend the president and his obvious failed policy's no matter what."

Just as true that some are so blind to try to blame everything bad on the other party as well and at the same time support the wife of the most scandal ridden Presidents administration in history. You're right, Steve, some folks are blind to the truth.

You know Gerry,the biggest scandel may just turn out to be this administration, the difference between the clinton administration and what is going on now should be so obvious that no one should have to point it out to you. My point was fairly simple,he has a failed policy and some continue to support this administration because it serves there own intrests.

I have to side with Steve on this one. A president that couldn't keep his zipper up vs. taking your country to war under false pretenses, is a monumental difference.

Cheers - Dennis

Dennis In my heart and i give you my word that if a democratic administration was in the whitehouse instead of the present one,id be feeling and saying the same thing. I believe that some will say anything to keep there position intact,a intreasting side note.Mention the name Rosie O'Donnel what will some respond,true she may be a lot of things but look up some of the charitable works she's done,including the money she helped raise for the Fisher house and thats my whole point. Theres a part of this country that has a agenda and disagree and you will feel there wrath. Im sick of it,all of it,the selfishness,the lying,the one way attitude and its both parties. I think Sen McCain will win the presidency i know he's a hero and a brave man,i hope he will unite us. Dennis thank you for listening and i appreciate the scrafice that you made for our country.

slywelder Wrote:

....I'll say right up front, the problem here in Michigan IS the problem of ONE party. No other way to put it. I wish Bush would have sent troops here!....

Wyatt Give it up were talking about the country,you slam the dem's the unions.same sh/t different day. Marc Yes she said some stupid stuff which i may have indirectly addressed but that wasnt my point,you however made my point.Yes she has a big mouth but she also cared enough to help our injured vet's.I simple used her as a example of how people who speak out are maligned.

slywelder Wrote:

I looked up a few pieces of information on the the administration and the VA.
President Bush in Febuary of 2000 (prior to 9/11) submits the largest budget increase of any prior President.
2001 budget $51.4 Billion
2004 budget $64 Billion
2007 budget $70 billion

This is the second larget Department second only to the Depatment of Defense. It has 230,000 employees.

What you should be afraid of more than anything is that this is the single payer medical system liked so much by Hillary and the left. This is what we can expect for all when universal helath care is brought on line. Scary.

As usual the system or beuracracy is probably more to blame than the administation. They pump in the money but the performance of the system is very poor.

I did not listen to the soldier but I did find a major problem with the system where the soldeir transitions from active duty to Military Tricare. There is a backlog and the soldiers can be on thier own for costs during the transition. This is unsat and the admiin is working the problelm.

Yes well i guess you can say that,and people like her,actors or pretenders as you said use there status to make statements better left unsaid,the fact still remains she thought enough to try and do something to help vets,the fact that she doesnt know "shit from shineola"doesnt change that.Stupid outrageous remarks are not limited to actors like Rosie,you might look up what the GOP congressman from San Diego had to say about 9/11 yesterday, then come back and tell me about stupid and outrageous

Steve which Congressman

Darrell Issa. NYDailyNews.com

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/04/03/2008-04-03_gop_rep_darrell_issa_under_fire_from_eve.html

Note that his fellow Republicans were quick to condemn this idiot.....

Steve,
This is an elected official who is being held accountable by his peers for his stupidity....No doubt he screwed his career but good this time.

Who holds idiots like Rosie or Roseanne Barr accountable? Certainly not the mainstream media.....

Marc Everyone has there opinion,even that congressman,for him the fallout could be criticism from fellow GOP or the people he represents,as far as Rosie is concerned im sure she has turned off a lot of people,and im not defending her.My whole point was to show how attacks were used by people who support the present policy and thats it. Responsibility to the people of this country,thats all i want,doesnt matter who gets elected.Constant support of ones party and thats either party for self serving reasons isnt going to help us

Steve, what about the attacks being used by the people who do not support present admin? Guess it's OK as long as you agree? To me, an attack is an attack and one side is no better than the other. Just because one side believes their attack is just does not make it so.

SteveY, sorry, I dont slam the dems "same sh*t different day".It's the same sh*t every day.Why would I give it up. It was said in a post that it is not the problem of one party, BS. Is not Michigan a part of the country. Sorry I thought it was. The poster was trying to be magnanamous. In Michigans case his share the blame theory doesn't hold water. I already expressed my support with most all other posters about our vets. I just wanted to correct some mis-information about the politics of a particular place in our...COUNTRY.

...Sorry SteveY....I will never give it ...UP. by the way,If you would care to be ..fair, for once,you might take the time to check the facts about the absolute bankrupture of our state.

... If I might, when will you ..."give it up" about the other side of the aisle.

.....SteveY...try to remember, you are not the only one on this forum who works with his hands, there ore others here also that do the same,..without a blood sucken union to baby sit them.

DON'T EVER TELL ME TO GIVE IT UP.

....SteveY...I'm a bottom line man....the bottom line is..I'm bustin my ass for the right to keep my money. you're bustin your ass for the right to take it away......

Daryl Issa is a self made man who grew a business into a very successful one. He also funded the recall of Grey Davis Governor of California which got us Arnold and I am not sure anymore which is worse. I think his frustration is contiuous pouring of money into the state with Federal dollars, when does the State and its citizens step up. He should have known better than to say anything about it, it is untouchable just like race in so far as having a discussion.

...by the way Mayor Mr Chocolate of NOL said pretty much the same thing.

Father/Daughter Talk



A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and was very much in favor of 'the redistribution of wealth.'



She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.



One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to high er taxes on the rich an d the addition of more government welfare programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.



Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.



Her father listened and then asked, 'How is your friend Audrey doing?'



She replied, 'Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over.'



Her wise father asked his daughter, 'Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.'



The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, 'That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!'



The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, 'Welcome to the Republican Party.'

Richard You'll defend any republican no matter what he says or does.Your comment about New Yorkers as you put it "steping up to the plate" is really a very sad thing to say but i did half expect it. Wyatt you need to calm down,When i said "give it up''That is just a figure of speech,with no personal attack,but your constant opinion of attacking unions and the dem's as the whole source of your states problems is biased,and it was intreasting to read some one who lives in your state does not agree with you.Lets be clear you may have interperted my message other then the way i intended and that would be my fault, but tell me and i'll apoligise,you say what you wrote then we really dont need to adress one another anymore and i do hope thats not the case.For the record i dont want,need whatever your money.If you want P/m and we can discuss it there.

...steve y, please remember, my politics and my sense of whom i like, strangely are not necessarily the same.

..ps if you mean limey, he is a union thug with two fat GoP'rs in his trunk for traction in the snow.

Steve Y I was not giving my opinion about New York but it proves my point that you can not discuss it because people like you will jump on it as if I am against New York. That is the point of the two issues race being one of them. I have been quite consistent that I believe it is the responsiblility of the States to take care of themselves and the Federal government to defend us regulate interstate trade and not much else. You might find interesting reading in a book about the 1927 major flooding of the entire south eastern United States and how it was dealt with by the Federal Government and States. We should look to that era for guidance. I read it in research to understand the movement of minorities into the rest of the US.

PEOPLE LIKE ME!!!!!!Now im sure the congressman regrets a slip of the tongue,but i resent you compairing 9/11 with a flood.Using your way of thinking N.Y. should not get any help from the federal govt. but yet we give major taxes to the federal govt.Do you have a clue to whats going on here in NYC,the security cost just were i work are astronomical and your telling me the state should take care of themselves!Should we shoulder the cost of the war?After all they only attacked NY!

Steve, don't get all riled up I didn't say anything, I was speculating what Issa thought. Again you have the point. Yes we give the taxes to the Federal government. That is the problem. If they did what they were suposed to we would give more to the State and less to the Feds to do what we want them to do particular to our state. I was not comparing a flood to 9/11 I was making the point on how the two eras are different in Federal and State responsibility. Read the book. If agree that the New York 9/11 was a failure of the Federal responsibility to protect us then they would be responsible to make the City whole. But they would not be responsible to provide a new communication system or other infrastructure for future use. The buildings were insured.

Im not riled up but i cant help thinking you dont get it.This is not some buisness deal.Do you understand how many buissnes's went belly up,how many folks got laid off.The federal govt did fail to protect us and that is a fact that can not be disputed. Why do i get the feeling that this is more a issue of money then anything else

It is not about money. The city recovered along with the US very quickly. It is the whole issue of the responsibility of the State and the Federal government. You seem to be looking at it only from the context of a single person from NY. You look to them(FEDS) and I look to the State. I happen to live in a very bad fire area. I don't expect you to pay for my fire protection or rebuild my house if it burns down. You,i f hit by a hurricane might expect that my federal tax dollars should buy you a new house. I beleve you should take care of hurricanes and I should take care of fires. That is the difference between us.

And again if God forbid what happened in N.Y. happened in your city,i would not have issues with the Federal govt helping. I dispute that fact of the city recovering quickly and were would they be without the fed's.Do you honestly believe any city in this country could rebuild itself with out the help of the goverment and thats the govt that they supported. The fact that you live in a fire area is not what were talking about but when those houses burnt in california and if the the gov steped in to help i would not complain. You make it sound like the feds steped in and it didnt cost anybody a dime,how can you make that assumption,on what base's. it cost NY plenty! Dont say it's not about money you know only to well it comes down to a buck and i dont mean to be rude but thats your dollar in your federal taxes that you think you should not be paying to help NY. Not to repeat myself but your a educated man so tell me how a state could shoulder the whole fiscal bill of rebuilding in the face of a incident like 9/11

I agree that the Government should be helping build NY after 9-11. After all, one of the major roles of the Federal Government is to protect us and since the Federal Government was not keeping the Military adequately staffed nor the Intelligence community up to par, sh$t happened.

Why is that it is the governments responsibility to step in and rebuild an area after an catastrophe? Why should the government be held responsible for the people who lose their homes because they signed a mortgage that they had every reason to believe that they could not afford three years afterward when the interest rate climes? Why is the government's responsibility to rebuild New Orleans after Katrina when there was not a single person in New Orleans that was not well aware that their town was built below sea level and would flood if it ever took a direct hit? Seems to me that a very large section of the population expects the government to protect them from their own bad judgment.

Been through floods many times and lost my ass more than once. Not once did the government step in and pay my way back. Even when I was FORCED to buy flood insurance the government found every loophole to keep from paying for what they had insured. The "the government owes me because I pay taxes" attitude that is promoted by at least one political party will be the death of self responsibility in the US

You know you guys got some lousy attitude! Are we talking about high intreast rates,a natural catastrophe or the biggest attack on american civillians.Twist and turn the facts so it suits your cause.I now know what Rick Steven's is talking about,Here's the question how could a state every rebuild after a 9/11.You make it sound like a handout when its about the country helping each other.Sorry guys i see it as greed and selfishness.Thank God the GOP by and large does not feel the same way and although i dont agree with some of the president's policy he did his best for NYC

...911 was an act of war, it is most definately the Gov'ts responsibility.

No one including me is saying that the 9/11 is not the responsibility of the Federal Government. The Federal Government should make moey available for rebuilding the damaged city. The difference is then providing all the money for future use of the City and State Departments. Why are they buying cars, trucks vans, radios and other equiipment for the City. When we had the fires the Feds gave money for local fire support. My point is why are Wyatt, Marc and Steve giving me thier money for my fire. If you want to pay for fire roads on federal land OK pay for it but not on State or private land.

"Sorry guys i see it as greed and selfishness."

You know, Steve, That's exactly how I see the Democratic party. They coerce their followers into believing that someone owes them a living by promising more and more social services. It's the "it's not my fault" mentality that someone else should pay the bill. Pay my way while you tax someone else. Sad thing is that so many people like buy into this idea so they want to blame everything that happens on what ever Republican is handy at the time. Guess the mantra for the Democratic Party should be "never do anything for yourself if you can get someone else to do it for you"

you know gerry your endless attacks are starting to show what your really thinking . .I dont start this crap i will admit to answering it and i dont use a political post to state baised views.Thats a pretty outrageous statement you made.Here's the difference between the way we think,when the army corp of engineers rebuilds the levy's in your state,i would never bitch and think thats my tax dollar.Dont confuse this as a political issue because its republicans that are responsible for this. Were in God's name would we be as a nation if the GOP had your way of thinking.Follower,coerce,owe's them a living,never do anything for yourself,all your words,yes there's a bunch of rich pompus liberal asshole in the dem party as well as some crackpots in the republican party but that does not defind the majority of either party.Its really senseless to go on

Tell you what, Steve-you quit posting you "blame it all on Bush, the Republicans and non-union scab posts' and I'll quit entering every discussion you post in with my views on your views. You game?

You got me confused with someone else,because i never said non union scabs,i dont agree with a lot of were this administration has taken the country,but i also gave the president respect and acknoweldged he has done good things and i dont blame everything on all Republicans,dont worry theres a lot of dem's that screwed up.As i said there is radical or off the wall views if you prefer in both parties,they do not represent the majority. Ive told you personaly that there are good responsible unions and there are also ones that are not. You had a bad experience with a union or union's and your mind is made up,the same holds true with politics and listen anything i post that you dont like,you got a green light to break my balls as much as you like because in the end i know as much as we dont agree your not a bad person and you'd be welcome in my home and id like to think you'd feel the same