MG MGB and MGB GT Tech Talk
As of now i have a new set of springs and shocks. I will be ordering the bushings, a-arms and assorted hardware in a few weeks.
The kingpins appear to be ok from testing them by trying to wiggle the wheels by hand.
However, i don't have much of a service history on the car and have no idea how old they are. The quote i got for a new set was very affordable. Should i add this to the list of "might as wells?"
thanks!
Just finishing up what you are starting to do. I'd say yes, go for it. Replace the kingpins. I got a kit that included them, V8 bushings, all hardware, and A-arms from Gordon at the Bhive. I don't know if there really is a good way to check them on the car. The wiggle test imparts such low loading on things that slop may not show up. I think the only way to really know for sure is to strip it down, clean it, and measure/inspect all the bushings and bearing surfaces. That may be a good option as well, prior to just changing them out. In my case, there was a LOT of wear on the bottom trunion on the pass side. Couldn't really "feel" it during the wiggle test, but whan I pulled it apart the bushing was egg shaped from wear! At any rate, you're going to be right there, so ya might as well..... 8-)
A'dm, How to test for king pin wear , jack up the ft. end & put on stands on the rails. Grab the top & bottom of the wheel & push on the top & pull on the bottom, with a good bit of force. There will be a bit of slop in the wheel bearing float but you will/should feel the king bearing move it there is wear, or get someone to look for movement. Were there is more wear in the king pin is in the disantice tube thet goes through the bottom of the king pin from ft. to back of the A arm/king pin. I find this to be sloppy with wear befor the king pin top 2 bushings. If the ft. end is keep grease the king pis do not wear! I grease my ft. end EVERY 2,000 miles & it now has over 450,000 miles on it with NO WEAR whatsoever!!! I get 100,000 miles out of the rubber V-8 lower V-8 bushings & I pull the lower distance tube & it is miked and is still at the standard new size with no rust. I grease the wheel bearings every time I put in new brake pads (50,000) miles & I have 450,000 miles on them also. The B ft. end was way over built!, if you keep it greased it will go longer than you or me! I have stripped out a LOT of Bs in the last 42 years & I ck. the king pins for wear & if thay ck. good I will use them on my cars that I build for me & family.
I recently went through a front end rebuild. I strongly recomend an exchange unit or send out and have someone with the equipment rebuild the king pin for you. It then becomes an easy and fun drop in and assemble project.
IMHO, the only way to really check kingpins is to disassemble it, clean and then check tolerances dry.
If they do need servicing, go the exchange route. With machine-shop rates what they are, its no more expensive.
I was lucky during my rebuild. The only bolt that I had to cut was one of the sway bar links to the bottom a-arm. The upper and lower trunion bolts came out with a drift and a hammer. Spray ALL hardware with a good penitrating oil every night for a few nights before you begin, it will help A LOT! From there, it was pretty straightforward. I did replace all my stock sway bar bushings. The mount bushings were shot. The ones in the ends (eyes) had to be pressed out/in and that took everything my shop press (supposed to be 12 tons) had to get the old ones out. Those weren't too bad, and I could have likely reused them, but while I was at it....
[quote= I did replace all my stock sway bar bushings. The mount bushings were shot. The ones in the ends (eyes) had to be pressed out/in and that took everything my shop press (supposed to be 12 tons) had to get the old ones out. [/quote]
Michael - I had the same experience, and I don't have a press. Lots and lots of BFH work. Toughest part of the job without a doubt.
Ad'm - Although my kingpins appeared to be solid, I was planning to at least remove and clean them as part of my rebuild. When I realized that I couldn't get the top nut loose on the kingpins, I decided to leave them alone. After doing the rest of the rebuild, the "feel" of the front end was like new and I've driven it for a year and a half since then and the kingpins are still solid. I lube them any time I'm under the car, which is fairly frequently.
Removing sway bar bushes should not be difficult, with the bar off simply put a small hacksaw through the hole and cut through them.
5 minutes each tops ;)
Aww heck, now I know. Well, it was nice to use the press for something!
A few tips - removing the springs. No compressor needed. Undue the top trunioin bolt while supporting the outer a-arm with a floor jack. Make sure the car is at least 14" off the ground from the bottom of the lower A-arm inner pivot point (so you have enough room to rotate the a-arm down). Lower the jack slowly until the arm is drooping af far as it will go. Push it down a few more inches and lift the spring out! Easy peasy! (assuming the upper trunion bolt isn't seized - if it is then you can undue the shock mount bolts and flop the whole mess over and out and deal with it on the bench). Have an old seat cusion around to kneel on, makes you that much more comfortable since you'll be down there a lot. Antiseize the lower and upper fulcrum bolts before assembly. Good time to check tightness on the subframe to body nuts, as well as lower a-arm to subframe pivot bolts. When installing the upper fulcrum bolt (top of spindle that goes between the shock arms) loosten the arm pinch bolt AND the splined shaft pinch bolt (at the shock's pivot point) to get some play that will allow you to spread the arms enough to get the new upper fulcrum bushings between them. KY lube is GREAT for getting bushing to seat! Especially the V8 bushings going into the a-arms, better than soap! There is a drain hole in the bottom of the spring pans that will be caked over with dirt - I cleaned mine up and made sure it was open and will make a point to "clear" it on ocasion. Best place to put jackstands to support the car is under the front "rails" just aft of the wheel wells and slightly inboard, not under the crossmember since they will get in the way. Be prepared for the front sway bar link where it attaches to the lower a-arm to put up a fight and not come off. It is a taper fit with no flats to keep the shaft from spinning. Getting the nut off is half the battle. I used a big air impact to zap them off, then a BFH to beat one of the tapers off, the other had to be cut so I could re-use the spring pan.
I offer this bit of info;
By far, the best way to check the kingpins is on the bench. You'll have them off anyway so clamp them in a smooth jaw vise by the caliper ears. Move the kingpin up and down (end float) and this is easily correctable w/shims. Hold the top (shock link) and bottom trunnion and wiggle side to side. If the vertical bushings are worn, you'll feel it. This requires new bushings and reaming if excessive. There WILL be more play if the old, hardened grease is removed!
Checking on the car - the only way is to load the suspension as the spring will take up much of the play if any. Put your jack under the outer lip of the spring pan and jack up until the bump stop is off it's seat then jack it up a bit more. At this point the spring is not pulling the kingpin assy. apart! In essence it's in "suspension". Now you can lever up the shock arm to check for end float AND lift up, push down on the stub axle end to check for worn vertical bushings and lower trunnion movement.
PM me if you want to refurbish yours. I may have a solution. (tu)
RS
x2 or 3 on getting rebuilt units exchange from Moss (they were on sale when I got them) or Gordon at B-Hive. The labor you're going to put into taking it apart and rebuilding it is waaay more than you'll spend on a quality rebuilt after returning the core for refund.
I knew mine needed replacing due to a slight "thunk" when I came to a slow but firm stop or started out similarly. I had read on here somewhere that if you hear that sound, it's the kingpin assemble. I have also read on here that to test "by hand" takes a serious amount of force that may not be feasible.
Dave
One more tip... order those tabs that go behind the brake caliper bolts, the ones where you bend the end over the bolt head to lock it, because they will likely bust when you flatten them out to pull the caliper. Ask me how I know... 8-)
and this is why i love this site so much! thank you so much for all the advise. be prepared for many more questions some weekend in april when i am elbow deep in this project :)
one other question... regarding removing the springs, i have already heard a number of horror stories of springs causing harm and injury, and frankly the idea is a bit frightening. being maimed would really put a damper (hehe.. good pun, huh?) on the driving season this year. do these springs require a special compressor, or will any automotive spring compressor work?
I had a MGA spring pop out when I was trying to install it and broke my tooth! I'll use a spring compressor the next time. Which is going to be soon!
The front springs on an MGB do NOT require spring compressors. If you jack up your car as high as possible, there is almost no tension left on the springs. Place a jack under the inboard side of the spring pan on 1 side, loosen the outboard bolts, remove the inboard bolts, and slowly let down the jack and pull the spring pan down to as vertical as possible. The spring will have zero tension on it and can be easily removed.
I just finished taking mine apart and used the 'floor jack under the spring pan' method. That was the easiest part...just slowly let it down a couple of inches and lift it out.
Dale
if your engine is in the car just use your jack. your teeth will be further away from the spring.
Add me to the list of active front-end rebuilders; I'm doing my 74 B CB right now. I've bought the parts from Moss, but I need someone to press out/in the bushes and ream the new ones (I don't want to spend $260 for a reamer).
Any suggestions/recommendations for a shop to do this work, preferably on the west coast (I'm in CA)?
Thanks for any help!
I have the reamers will change the bushes & ream BUT I am on the wrong coast! You can send them through the U S P S in the med. priority box for less than $12. I can have them out the same or next day.
Thanks for the reply, Glenn. If I don't come up with anyone closer I'll get back to you in a week or so.
BTW, I'm a NJ native transplanted to California so you're not on the "wrong" coast,just the "opposite" coast.
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You can use my redneck spring compressor method. Heavy duty zip ties at Home Depot.
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Completely unnecessary.