Gold Seal Engine

Was browsing on Hemmings and found this...

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/partsforsale/mg/b/530502.html

fleet Wrote:

The description is also a little off - it claims 1962-1980, which, as we all know, is impossible!

It is correct that Gold Seal were factory "rebuilds" - although many of them were actually brand new motors. However, for that amount of money you could buy, and rebuild, a motor to better than stock. Paint it gold and nobody will ever know!

I suppose if it is a 3-bearing motor it may be worth a few $$$ - but I think it is still a little steep.

this kind of talk is immature and has no place on a board like this. I have always loved MG's. Back when my kids were small my husband and I had no money, We both worked but money was turned out out faster than it came in. In order to get our first van, we bought one, sold it for a profit and so on until we got enough money to afford a decent car. With all that said, MG's are no different, I have 2 kids in college now and money is still tight. Sometimes I buy an entire lot of parts and sell off what I don't need in order to afford what I want. I just hope you all understand that I read these boards the same as you do and the crap I have read from comments about how I handle parts is uncalled for. How many of you sell your exrta parts on ebay so someone else can use the part? Mr Woolf, Tell you what, when I sell my engine I will come by and buy you an ice cream since you are too young for a beer.

For you own interest junior you need to grow up think beyond high school. Somone from this board did buy my sunroof at what we both agreed on was a fair price.

I do not want to discuss this subject anymore. We all have the same interest in the love of our MG's. I just really would appreciate my name not being trashed on the board over a subject I love so much

I am will not repsond to anmore comments on this suject other than to ask others not to participates in such childish bevior.

that engine is posted on ebay every now and then and has been for at least 6 months

as far as "Gold Seal"

a few years back...like 17 or so, we got a whole bunch of "Gold Seal" engines and transmissions from England the transmissions were very poor quality and most of them made me wonder if they were just used transmissions painted gold and sealed with some thick white sealer

engines were ok, but nothing special

It's difficult to tell what engine it really is, but it's set up for a 62-67 style radiator.

I guess the seller does not like our comments - even so, it does not alter the fact that the description is wrong. No matter how much you pay, you will be disappointed if you bought a 3-main engine for your 5-main car, and vice-versa.

It has the cover plate for a mechanical fuel pump - doesn't that make it a 3-main?

Hi guys,

I do appreciate this open conversation. I bought this enging from a gentlmen who worked for an MG dealer before they shot down and then on to a bristish car parts importer. The tag on the Bristish Leyland crate and the ones on the engine match. I can even get a prospective buyer in touch with the person who imported it from British Leyland.

I undesrstand $4500 is high, I am not arguing that it isn't. I would entertain any offers over 2500 which I feel is more than fair....

Eric, I thought 18V engines all have a fuel pump cover plate, the 18V on my 74 does, Clausager states on page 65 that the 18V engines have fuel pump blanking plates because the same blocks were used for Marina and Sherpa engines.

Clifton

Good catch, Clifton! I don't think I have ever seen an 18V block up close and personal, you are almost certainly correct!

That looks like a late model block to me, the earlier ones had the cast iron rib level with the fuel pump blanking plate extend a lot further forwards.

Here we go, 18G and 18V engines, I had to modify the rib on the 18G to bolt my late mount up. 18G is the top picture.

Good shot, Carolyn!

We all need to be aware that statements we make on this board are visible to many others.

Oh, I guess that means what I just said will be read by others. Oh, well.

Montrose Wrote:

I think she mistook his signature as being part of his post.

Wow, it sure is.... gold! Looks like a prop from an Austin Powers movie..... I assume they would put some oil in the cylinders to keep it from seizing up all these years later, right?

Frankly, I think it's hard to put a value on something like this. Sure, you can rebuild your engine and paint it gold. But for some folks, having an original like this is just what they want.

Dan D

Carolyn - sorry, but given these responses:

lbcnut Wrote:

Hey, hey, hey settle down kids. We're all just trying to have some fun here. Carolyn, you are right, James admits he's just a smartass. Let's face it, on this forum, everybody has more opinions than sense, thats why we are here.
C'mon, can't we just,
Have fun

ddibiase Wrote:

It's a late model 5 main.

My 75 in the UK had a Gold Seal engine in it, I was actually pissed off because it meant the car was no longer original and the engine number was funky, it started BHM.

Hi, Here are some pictures that I hope will answer some quesions:

Here are some more pics

more

Hi Everyone,

I did some research on this engine.

As Mike showed this is a late model block.

***Gold Seal engines for the early MGB was 48G, and for the later was "BHM".

What I did not understand was the BHM 1109 as this number is not listed as a Gold Seal engine for the MGB.

After some e-mails I finally recieved an answer from a person very knowledgeable in BMC engines as to what this BHM 1109 Gold Seal Engine actually was for:

His response: Det er en Marina 1,8 - G.T- Special MK 2 ombytningsmotor.

Called Austin Marina in the United States: 1975-1978 AUSTIN MARINA GT, 1.8L 1798 cc L4 1BBL

Regards, Ray

I apologize for getting upset ealier. There have been several posts where I got some bac prsee that was uncalled for and I let it slide. I guess this time it hit me the wrong way. I apologize to all especially if I offended anyone.. Not that it is anyones problem here, and it is certainly no excuse for me losing my cool, but I had emergency back surgery last week and I just haven't been myself. My aplogies again.

See how much more fun it is when everybody cools down? Let's go over what's happened. We have someone trolling for a retail price for a fairly rare piece (and what better venue than Hemmings, hell the cover is gold). We have someone pointing out his opinion. Then we had some serious research showing exactly what the piece is.
Wow, what a great forum!
I've got a GM crate motor in my old Blazer, 'cause I wanted a "brand new engine" that I can go back and rebuild in 150 - 200,000 miles. If I'm not mistaken, this is the same thing.
Best of luck to ya Carolyn, hope it brings the dollar. Apparently this isn't the greatest venue to get top money. But Hemmings is a great idea.
Have fun

Hi Ray,

Well thank you for finding out that information. I appreciate the effort you went through to get that.

Again, I feel I must apologize for my behavior, I am not normally one to fly off the handle buy my back pain has certainly gotten the better if me, I have learned so much from you guys and I hold you all in the highest reqard. I hope that you do not judge me for a bad moment on a bad day.

On another note, before last friday (back sugery day), i had started to plan the interior work on the GT, I purchased some hgh quality wool carpeting. I would like to redo the seats in some high quality leather. Any ideas on what has worked for you? Any/all input appreciated. Thanks.

-Carolyn

Dont sweat it Carolyn, EVERYONE has hit the send button while upset and said somethings they might not have normally in public. It is a very nice item and will be just the thing someone has been looking for. Good Luck with it.

As a (hopefully helpful) suggestion - I don't know whether $4,500 is a fair price or not - but more information needs to be known about that engine in order for it to sell. For instance, is it a high compression or low compression engine? Is the head tapped for emission control injectors? Now I don't fault Carolyn - the info might not be available on the box or shipping tag. But without that info this is going to be a tough sell at any price.

That is a very interesting part of history.

Would an engine of that age require a rebuild due to hardened seals?

The one advantage of the Gold Seal engines by BMC (at the time) was the factory warranty which if I recall was 12 months / 12 000 miles; virtually the same as a new one provided it was dealer installed.

We had one fitted to a Mini and it was fine and lasted for many years.

Pete.

nikrap Wrote:

I have a whole slew of pictures of this engine that Carolyn sent me. She also got very upset with me because I told her that the engine that she is representing as an authentic "Gold Seal" engine wasn't.

In fact, the engine number that she represents should have actually been painted black from all the info that I've been able to dig up. I was actually interested in buying it, I thought it would be a neat subject to talk about at car shows, and get togethers because they're fairly rare items. But, the gold paint is very sloppily spray painted on the engine. The oil filter, the tape, etc. is all just rattle canned on there. She does indeed have an authentic BOX, but the box has a tag on there that is bought from Staples and typewrited on the label to match the engine tag. The gold seal engines were just replacement engines for people that had trouble with their original engine in most cases. This one seems to have been "MADE TO FIT THE BOX" The paint is actually sprayed on top of grease and such that it is actually fish eyeing. It's clearly NOT NEW.

If anyone is interested in seeing the pictures, let me know, I don't want to stretch this this out of control and cause a big to do. She got extremely mad at me and told me I didn't know what I was talking about.

I originate from the UK and spent the days of my youth at BelleVue Car Autions buying and selling Austin Minis with my dad. We came across many BLC cars with gold seal engines but I never saw one with a gold colored rocker. Why would you do that? Doesn't make sense.
John

It also appears to have silicone squishing out from the rear side cover gasket as well as the front plate. (although I could be wrong) and in the photo's there is no paint in the pully groove (although there is on the pully edges).. which would tell me that the engine has been run sometime after the paint was originally applied. (just my observations)

Michael

The gold seal in my 75 had black rocker cover, timing chain cover and tappet covers, the oil filter mounting wasn't sprayed as that wasn't supplied, it had to come off the old engine.

From what I remeber of them, they did have gold rocker covers, but they are so easily switched it probably means nothing. Others are correct that many of the "attachments", including the oil filter, would not be on the engine.

This engine does not have a "smog" head. If it is, indeed, a Marina engine, then it probably has smaller valves, and is low compression.

As to the paint job - it just looks too shiny to be a BL job! Certainly, they painted them after assembly, so paint went everywhere, but there are typically bare spots, and it is pretty thin.

Bottom line - did US spec Marinas have smog control? If not, it may be a Marina engine. If they did, I would be very suspect of this motor being a real "Gold Seal" motor.

I'm guessing that this is where the crate was originally shipped to:-

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_fnc1kv

Don't understand all the hoopla, if it is real it's been sitting for 30 years, and will need to be stripped anyway. No way i'd fire up a motor that old without going thru it, i'm guessing any rubber would be too old and it'd need unleaded head mods i guess. Only real plus is it's painted gold, and you can paint any motor, and the bores, crank, ect.. would be standard. If thats worth a few extra g's for someone, then good for her and I hope she gets it.

jarthurs Wrote:

Eric,
They certainly did have the "Gold Seal" sticker on the rocker cover.
Actually that was the only way to tell them from the other engines.
Apart from the gold seal the rest of the engine was purely BMC standard colours for the time.

Pete.

I have also been informed that items that did not meet spec when manufactured and tested for the first time, for example machined incorrectly, were sent to be repaired and then used in gold seal engines. So you could have a genuine gold seal engine that was unused but already had under size bearings, over bore etc.
Not to mention that the head around the thermostat looks different from a MGB engine, and that ALL B series 1800 engines were available as gold seal. So it could be Marina etc. Or could have Marina/Austin FWD parts (cast crank etc) inside. Who knows what cam timing it has. A bit of a pig in a poke.
Matthew

The thermostat housing looks like one from a Mk1

Does anyone have a photo of the engine number? That was another way of telling, Gold and Silver seal engines did not have standard engine numbers.

Limey Wrote:

nikrap Wrote:

KLUTZ Wrote:

Limey Wrote:

It is truly amazing what can be learned from this forum. :)

Paul

Folks, I have had about enough. I shared what I knew and I appreciated those who shared what they knew about this motor. I enjoy this forum and I learn so much from it. I just have a lot of trouble understanding why everyone feels the need to be so negative once things start to get off topic as this thread did. I lost my temper yesterday on this thread and I apologized fir it. I did not get that same courtesy in return from others that said some unkind words. We are supposed to be here to help each other and share the love we have about our cars.

Oops!

Carolyn, could you post the engine number?

hEY mIKE,

tHE NUMBER ON THE PLATE ON THE ENGINE IS bhm 1109 315e. i KNOW YOU ARE TRYING TO HELP, BUT i HAVE GOTTEN AO BEATEN UP IN THIS SUBJUSTC i HATE TO EVEN BRING IT UP AGAIN... THANK..
-cAROLYN