If only my rear end would go up 3/4ths of an inch!

But I can't believe it.

I can't.

But if the rear would go up 3/4th of an inch I would have it made. But that can't be. There was just a wee bit of cork on the rear-most body mount area. I know it.

But how can a patch panel that has no reason not to be reputable be 3/4 of an inch off?

Take a look at the below: A pano. of many shots

1. I am convinced the rear [primed] panel is in the right location.
2. I am convinced the FRONT-most [flat] [foot-well] sill replacement part should be 90 degrees to the vertical.
3. I made and drilled DATUM holes in the body so that I could put BACK this piece properly arranged in altitude. (It is where it should be).
4. I have a straight line from the front foot-well sill panel on back to the end of the sill liner.

One think I could do easliy is stop trying to get the bottom edge straight, and parallel with the frame.

I am not sure what to do but to go drink.

Any advice appreciated.

Landon

Here is a close up of the actual discrepancy I speak of:

Thank you,

Landon

well for one thing the rear "half" is resting on the frame rails toward the front, but not really supported there when installed...it seems tipped forward. try bolting it down in the rear to make sure its' sitting properly supported by the rear pads and cork pads along the bar on either side of the dome for the spare. (there is cork there too if you missed it) Once secured the shelf pieces on either side of the battery cover might or might not be touching the frame (some flexibility there) and later they will be supported by the rubber packing and by the sills along the doors that you weld in down the road.

I would tack in the front panel and line up the panels like you think they should be (which is obvious) and then rivet or tack them in place. Then rivet your B-pillar on and hang the door. If the new repair panel is in the right place the door will line up correctly with the top of the rear fender. If it is not, it won't and you will have to go back to your premise above (that the panel is bad).

The problem here is that you think this should all be straightforward! You have done a fabulous job so far, and now you need to fit the doors on both sides and build the car around them!

JIM in NH

one more thing - I built my chassis on a jig off the frame around the doors (a mistake - next time I'll do what you are doing and use the frame) and I ended up needing to shim the forward rear mounting pads about 1/4" before bolting them down...

JIM in NH

There is a body mount on the back of the piece you are working on. It is in the approximate location I highlighted in your picture. Measure from the mount to the bottom of the new piece. I measure 8 1/2 inches.

ah ha - good sleuthing...or I am just dense. I failed to realize that his repair piece didn't have the body mounts installed already!

looks more like 8.5" than 9.5" on the tape above though...??


here is a good pic of mine when it was apart.

So now you can line up your parts and use that as a guide to tack or rivet in your body mount (with the cork packing on the pad), then make sure your door fits before bolting it all down, etc...

JIM

No no,
actually it does have the mount installed.

Off to measure!

More like 9" for me.

Thanks, that offers some perspective.

Landon

And THIS is why I'm makin' all of that stuff out of wood and fiberglass . . . ! ! !

Measured on the inside to the mount. Body mount not frame. 8 1/2".

Tom, when you come up for your rocker panels, I'll loan you my welder.

JIM

Landon- measuring is great, (I mean it really is great, I'm not being patronizing by saying that), but hanging your fenders and the door will tell you more in ten minutes than an hour or two of measuring and trying to determine where the problem is will.

X2 on Mr. Miller's comment above!

Line up the panels like you think they ought to be, then you can fasten the B-pillar with sheet metal screws temporarily and hang the door. You want the door top and the fender top to line up top to bottom.

The B-pillar might also need to be adjusted back to front to make the door gaps work out (don't forget packing pieces under the hinges and striker when fitting).

JIM

" I'll loan you my welder. "

Got a welder, Lincoln gas mig, got a sheet metal brake, hydraulic press, roll bar tubing bender, exhaust tubing bender, engine hoist. four engine stands, adjustable car rotisserie, four post lift, two drill presses, metal lathe, metal cutting band saw, chop saw, metal cutting table saw, massive (body shop) compressor and six foot stand up tank, two smaller roll away compressors, pipe threader, tubing cutter, tire changing machine, tire balancer, eleven foot chain fall, bead roller, two car trailers (a single axle and a dual axle), and a shop full of electric tools that I got when my Father died.

Just haven't got the skills to use any of the stuff. If welding meant melting holes in things, I'd be an expert by now. Honestly, my most recent use of the welder was to cut a VW pan in half. I open all doors with my left hand (I'm right handed) 'cause I'm afraid that someone on the other side will push it open and break my fingers.

Gee I wish I had that problem!

:)

I'll trade you a 14 year old teenager for some of them tools...

You really must put the wings (fenders) and door on to see if there is a problem or not. You could also try raising the frame on a single jack placed directly under the a pillar and see what happens!

NO!!!! YOU MUST MEASURE the location of the mount. If the mount is in the right place the lower edge is in the right place then you will have a good point to work from. If it is not in the right place move it. Once the bottom of the repair panel is located properly then you can do as the others suggest and fit it together.
The line along the bottom of the rockers MUST be in the proper location. It is a critical dimension. The way to determine the location is in relation to the FRAME. The body mounts to the frame on both sides of the door opening. The measurements from the body mounts to the bottom of the body ARE what locates that line.
The front mount is pictured below. From the bottom of the mount to the bottom of the body 4 13/16" on an untouched car.
Measure 4 13/16 down from the front mount. Measure 8 1/2 down from the rear mount. The straight line that connects those two point is where your bottom body line should be. NOTHING else matters in determining the location of that line. You must pick a starting point that matters. If that line is where it should be things will fit.
THE BODY SHELL MUST HAVE THE CORRECT DIMENSIONS FIRST. Then fit the wings, doors and rockers.

The other critical dimension is the length of the bottom line. 53 3/4 on both sides of this unmolested body.

Randy - think about this: Landon measures his mount location versus yours... it's half an inch higher than yours in relation to the bottom edge. So he cuts the mount off ( on an aftermarket part for a fifty year old car with tolerances that were basically 1/4" or so), and puts in back on in the "correct " location. Replaces it on the car as it is now. The battery tray is now 1/2" off the car, and the sill sealing plate doesn't seal - it's in the air as well. But, it measures "right"? That really doesn't help anything. Say the part is wrong and he raises the mount up -then he finds that overall, the piece is 1/2" taller than what it needs to be once he fits up the fenders and doors... where to lose the extra height? Would have been simple to cut it off the bottom, but how to shrink it in the midsection or top? Slice it and push the top edge of the tub down to meet the top edge of the door, then shape the decklid to fit this new organic shape? Fitting the fenders and doors will cause a light bulb to go off that will point both to the real issue and its solution.

Henry
Really? How about just do it right.
Every statement you make is a "what if" assumption.
I am asking him to verify measurements so it can be done right from the start.
The new piece did not come with the mount installed. If it is in the wrong location he did it and now is the time to fix it. If it is in the right location then something else needs assessed.
If he blindly cuts off the bottom 3/4 " then everything else will need shortened to fit. You are suggesting compounding mistakes to make it all fit. Verify now and do it right. You are suggesting Butchering each part in succession to make them all fit. I am suggesting it be done right from the start so each piece fits.
Your advise is not helpful.
By the way the battery tray is unaffected by the location of any sheet metal it is part of the frame.

Double post- sorry

Henry this statement is pure garbage you simply have no clue about what you are talking about:
My statements take into account a fact which your advice to mesure the opening and-go from there-very true for a car produced to modern tolerances -does not: variations in door and fender fabrication, swapping parts over the years, etc, mean that you build these cars around the doors- you don't get the opening to match someone else's car and then cut the doors or fenders down or add metal to them to fit that opening.

These cars were made to better tolerances than you seem to believe. The location of the line we are discussing is critical.
Landon's car appears to have rusted enough that he has no reference lines to work from. I have 4 MGAs None were rusted badly enough to lose these points. The 1960 1600 has not been molested in any way. To copy it's measurements will make the rest of the job much easier. The tolerances were + or - 1/8". A 3/4 inch discrepancy is big enough to find.
In addition to the 4 I currently own there are 3 I have sold. I am currently completing my 6th restoration and 5th frame off. I have a 1962 MK11 that never was rusty at all as a completed reference. I have the unrestored 1600 pictured. It was never hit and is not very rusty. Using my experience and available information would help Landon.
In my experience you should build the opening to the original size. Done to the proper size the rest parts WILL then fit.
Yes cars are built around the doors. The top front corner of the door where it meets the body is the first fitting point. Wings are then fit to the doors and the rocker is last.

Uhhhh - inner/outer rockers and body panels replaced, completely removed and reworked the nose, replaced the duct panel, valance skirt, hood latch platform and valance, repaired the doors, all 4 fenders, hood and trunk then the body work and paint. Sure hope I can tear you away from your day job at the body shop to do mine too. Top notch work Henry,

Eric

Eclectic Motorworks (http://www.eclecticmotorworks.com/index.html ) built some impressive MGA body and frame jigs. They used to have a lot of information about MGA repairs on their web site. They have since sold that part of their business and the jigs to Sports Car Craftsmen. Here is a body shell on that jig. http://www.sportscarcraftsmen.com/gallery.php?proj=72 Once the body shell is repaired to the proper condition they then fit the bolt on stuff to it. The shell is the foundation of the car. Do it like the pros. Build it to the proper dimensions. Don't be a butcher like some uninformed people recommend.
Your frame is all the jig you have. Where it touches the body is important. Use those point and carefully measured offsets to build a solid foundation for your restoration.
When the body shell is built to the proper dimensions the bolt on panels WILL fit. Don't put the cart in front of the horse. You will chase the same mistakes all through your restoration. There are those on this forum that give advise that is without foundation.
It is unfortunate that a lot of the information that used to be on Eclectic's website is gone. They really showed the importance of a properly built shell. They do offer a 5 day seminar on the MGA. April 14-15, 2012 - MGA & Body-On-Frame Rust Repair and Welding. http://www.eclecticmotorworks.com/events.html If you have the time and money I recommend learning from them.

Landon- any progress over the weekend? I saw on another thread that you've bought your rockers- hope they work out well for you. I don't know the extent of the rust on the rest of your car, but if the body mount that Randy mentioned is rusted through or isn't solid on the opposite side, be sure to get that side of the tub at approximately the right height before you proceed much further. That side being low will affect the plumb line of the b pillar if it's very far off.


Randy, thanks for your input on the forum, I've got a lot of respect for your abilities and had seen your previous restorations a while back. I'm sure number five will be your best to date.

My suggestion that a repair panel from a reputable source could be off sized enough to necessitate a trial fit of all adjacent panels before welding it in comes from 25 years of fitting aftermarket parts vs OEM panels.

My statement about 1/4" tolerances was based on information from I-Car. Modern vehicles have a tolerance roughly twice as accurate as do those manufactured in the 1950's. I had seen another source reference 1/4" tolerances, but didn't recall where until earlier today. Here's a link from Barney Gaylord's website showing dimensions and tolerances for an MGA's frame. The rear mount you mentioned has a tolerance of 1/4". In their relationship to the front body mounts , they have a tolerance of 3/8".



http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/frame/frame.htm

I think all of you guys are great. Thank you for your time, passion, and please stay tuned.

Landon