MG MGB and MGB GT Tech Talk
I ran the engine for 20 minutes varying the speed from 2000-2600. I want to change the oil at 100 miles as the Crane cam break in additive says not to leave it in beyond that.
Is that 20 minutes equivalent to some mileage of the first 100?
Just trying to be safe.
Not sure about that. Perhaps I was overly cautious, but I changed my oil after the cam break in. Then after 100 miles, then after 500 miles.
You cannot hurt anything by changing oil too often. Change it like Greg and you'll be fine
I assume you still have that Delo 400 in it.
I agree that a first oil and filter change should be done now and again somewhere between two or three hundred miles. The precise mileage is not the issue so much as is the effort to flush out any lost debris floating around in there, including pushpins. Both of these next oil changes should of course use Castrol 20-50 or something similar. Jack
Why not stick with the DELO? That is good oil for its' detergent properties.
Wrong additive package. Diesel combustion produces completely different wastes and the Delo is formulated to cope with them. I was sort of surprised to hear that Gary had used it, but no harm can be done in this early stage of running in. Even Burgess suggests using cheap oil for this stage because it doesn't have to cope with the combustion by products that later extended changes will produce. Some oils are designated as useful in both Diesel and spark ignition motors and that is fine as far as it goes, but Diesel specific oil is not the thing to use in spark ignition lumps.
Jack
Chris. I put the Delco in on Hap's recommendation. Its Diesel oil which has a lot of zinc and phosphorous supposed to be good for cam break in. I don't know if I need it after break in. I was going to let it stay for 100 miles but maybe its best to do what's suggested here.
Hap? Are you there?
Jack's push pin comment is something I didn't mention on the board. After cam initial break in I opened the valve cover to torque and reset the valves. Unbelievably there was a push pin laying inside it. Fortunately, while the silver "push" part was a little beat up from the springs the metal pin looked unmarked so I don't think I have metal running around. Art and I have no idea how it got in there. All I can think is one must have fallen off his wall and got lodged into one of the springs. What's strange is that neither David or I saw it when we installed the engine not that we were looking for one.
The only oil option is it was inside one of the cans of Delco oil!
There's no push pins in my friends shop.
Jack. OK! I'll change it. I was just following Hap's suggestion and even Dave Anton recommended it. There's an article about it in Engine Builder Magazine that David referenced.
Dang. Should have changed it when the engine was warm the other day. Not a big deal I'll do it and put in Castrol.
There was an old 60 or 61 Ford 6 cylinder that used to come into the gas station I worked at as a kid. The owner always added DELO 30 even though it was much more expensive than other oils we sold, and his engine was one massive leak. He had been using it since new and had some incredible mileage (for the time; this was in 1972) on his engine without ever doing any work to it. That's why I asked.
That sounds good Chris. My neighbor swears by Synthetic for the same reasons and results.
No real rush there Gary. The Delo is not going to hurt anything for the time being. I would wait until I had the thing up to full temp again before changing.
The main element of the Diesel additive package is an increased ability to deal with the sulfur compounds produced by the compression ignition process. Left untreated the sulfur mixes with the normal levels of H2O and along with heat produces sulfuric acid which in turn attacks the babbitt material of the rod, main and cam bearings.
BTW: I have been meaning to suggest to you that you buy an oil thermostat and splice it into your cooler lines. It makes flushing the cooler system something of a bitch so you have to remove the cooler and lines to actually drain them, but your engine will thank you later on for having provided the device. Once you get the thing installed it is interesting to feel the cooler fittings after different levels of driving. Only under what I would consider pretty hard use do you get heat on both sides of the cooler. That is of course because the 'stat hasn't opened and allowed that part of the circuit to come into play. Over cooled oil is a definite no-no. As noted in an earlier post, you might not see the wonderful holy grail of 75PSI on you gauge every time you get the lump over 2000 revs and your idle pressure might be ten pounds lower than what you were use to, but that is a GOOD thing. It means that the oil is reaching or at least trying to reach optimum temp and is doing it's job correctly. Pressure is NOT the be all end all. What is important is that the oil is getting where it is upposed to be and that it is lubing what ever is there. Modern quality oils can stand some pretty awful temps and under regular conditions our little old lumps can't even begin to generate the heat needed to overwhelm them.
Jack
Jack. I've never changed the oil cold.
The thermo is on my FUTURE list. I need this mess to be whole again and after a couple months of it behaving I'll quietly do a couple things...
Jack, I have to wonder if the oil cooler is really necessary for normal driving. Does the oil cooler stay cool (sort of) when cruising at 70-75 on a 90 degree day. I ask because I removed my cooler for about two years and never noted any difference in anything other than a little less oil pressure at idle. It was still around 40psi at idle. After I installed an overdrive and rebuilt the engine I put the cooler back on but I cannot tell that I have helped anything. Most cars don't use oil coolers and do fine without them. As I recall the Sunbeam Alpine GT I owned in 64 didn't have a cooler, I don't believe TR 4 had a cooler, so why the MGB? Was it an advertising ploy to sell more MGB's? If I was planning to tour at 90-100 mph I would know the answer.
Delo and other diesel oils are still SL and GF3 rated for gasoline engines. (SM, the newer spec, is not likely to be found in such a "heavy" oil). The stuff they put in there for diesel soot and the like is in addition to the std stuff. So a guy from Pennzoil told me.
But, if I want 15w-40 (which I use in my 160,000 mile 92 Olds, which specs 10-30 but not the typical ambient temps we get out here) I'll still mix 10w-30 and 20w-50.
And if you REALLY want to get confused about this sort of thing, google Motor Oil and spend time crousing thru the multiple forums where "experts" (everyone's an "expert" on line, right?) discuss European vs SAE vs whatever.
$0.02
Cliff, I think you have it.
The thing just looks official sitting out there and they probably figured that the cost benefit ratio against NOT appearing to be a SPORTS car was worth it. I can run up and down the hills around here for hours and the line leading from the 'stat back to the filter head only gets a bit warm. That of course means that the valving is just barely modulating. The bottom line to me is that a cooler is not a particularly necessary thing.
I had them on Bs for years and never seriously questioned their usefulness but since researching oils lately and the possibilities of using a 'stat I have come to the conclusion that unless you live in the desert southwest or Texas or south Florida they are not needed and might even be a hindrance to long engine life. Competition circumstances are another matter entirely of course.
I suppose that I was just hung up on oil pressure, but now I am of the mind that the oil is really better than I thought and that given half a chance it will do it's job at fifty five or sixty pounds just as well as it would at seventy five. I cruised through the Porter data book looking at idle and max relief pressures in various B applications and found that lots of them call for something like fifteen or twenty PSI at idle and sixty at blow off. If that is so then my tired old lump will getting plenty of juice running below the magic seventy five PSI mark.
Jack
Hey guys, I've been out with the car club on our annual overnite trip, I'll share some pics with you all tommorow. Yep the diesel oil is just the latest train of thought about break in oil among builders, it trinkled down form the Nascar motor shops and they learn of it from the auto makers and what they used for break in oil. Gary run it a couple of hundred miles, then change it, you'll be fine. There are many diesel oils great for break in, I use Rotella 15-40.
Thanks Hap. With your help and others like Jack maybe we can make a rebuilding document for the library so everyone new and old can get the benefit of all these tips.
max71 Wrote:
True. :)
But we could create a doc with opinions and the latest info and let people decide. I know when I do a search before I post I have to wade through a lot. In the end there is a consensus. Never 100% yet as you said no two people agree on anything completely.
There seem to be common topics that always come up even though they've been covered. Anyway, just trying to think of ways to make the board a better research tool.
Hey I saw David Abbott put a magnet on his oil filter. I thought it was weird until he mentioned why. I immediately went out and got a magnetic drain plug and thinking about the magnet. What's your opinion regarding a magnetic on an oil filter? Wouldn't particles be stuck inside the element? Or would some get through and the magnet be useful?
Yes on the drain plug if you want to.
Negative on the magnet on the filter. To have any real effect, the magnet would have to be VERY strong or really large. The oil sitting around a drain plug is one thing, but the oil passing through a filter is quite another. It moves much more quickly and most of it is too far away from a reasonably size magnet to have a measurable effect.
Next time David does that have him duct tape the thing to the filter and NOT remove it from the case when he changes to a clean one. Then have him carefully cut the old case open to see how much metal debris is clinging to the inside near the magnet. That will tell the tale.
Jack