MG Tech Library

I've seen comments on at least a couple of threads regarding tech articles that users here have submitted for the library some time ago that have never been published here. I don't know how many there might be out there, but I'm sure it would be useful to get those online somewhere!

If there is enough interest - and there are enough articles to make it worthwhile - I might be persuaded to set up a simple site specifically for those. I could host it on my personal Comcast site I suppose, but the cost to register a domain and have a simple site hosted isn't expensive ($25 per year). I've checked and mgtech.com is taken, but mgtech.org is available - and probably more appropriate. Mgtechlibrary is available both in .com and .org.

I know there are articles on Tony Barnhill's site, and Chuck Cougill did something similar a while back...and dropped it, so maybe it would be a waste of time and $25.

Opinions??

[color=#0099CC]Oops...meant to post this in the OT section....sorry![/color]

[quote=JoeReed]
I've seen comments on at least a couple of threads regarding tech articles that users here have submitted for the library some time ago that have never been published here. I don't know how many there might be out there, but I'm sure it would be useful to get those online somewhere!
quote]


lol mine too I guess there was too much "tech" in the post....:I3:

As has been mentioned, who is going to be the final editor to make sure the articles are correct and not someone's personal opinion on how things are or should be done?

like...

what oil to put in gearbox,

whether to blast, paint strip , sand or burn/scrape.

single or 2 stage paint.

All personal choice with differing opinions.

etc.

Straightforward articles on factual information that people have done themselves would be good, ( and not my cousin's mate's uncle says this the right way to do it!!!), as long as it was limited to so many words or it would just get into a library too big to even bother with just a lot of "how I done it " blogs.

Stuff like fitting windscreens ..

Diff thrust washers...

Checking volts and amps...

Testing overdrives....

diagnosing various noises.

diagnosis on various non starting and stalling issues.

Gauge diagnosis.

SU tuning.

etc.

I think first off there should be a list of articles needed in a separate preliminary section.

Then all interested people can submit their articles.

Then there is a poll vote (for say a month),on each article listing on who wins the best and most accurate article with a 10 word only reason from voters as to why for vote.

THEN this article is posted in another section which [color=#0033FF]is gospel and used for reference[/color].

and become a sticky up top.

I have webspace to use. It's my business site so it's not related to cars but I could set aside a spot for this sort of thing if needed.

Several people have submitted items to Skye, but the never make it into the library. Don't know why. Only Skye can address this.

OK.

This is never gunna get off the ground until someone puts up the space and expertise to host the site.

I suggest in the first instance, people submit their offers for hosting and a vote be taken on the host.

Reminder to all submitters, you are responsible for (say) one calendar year to be host .

Then if you don't want to do it no more, you can offer resignation for another to take it on.

So far we have ....


[color=#FF0000]Kris Slater[/color] (will host, and possibly edit, needs help on polls)
[color=#FF0000]Steve S[/color] ( will host AND edit, with multiple voted articles)
[color=#FF0000]Pooch[/color] (assistant only, no expertise to host)
[color=#FF0000]Lee Miller[/color] (will host, no editing)

[color=#0033CC]If you want your name removed, or added or description modified.....PM me.[/color]

( I will keep editing this post to add names to keep it higher up)

And see how it goes.....

Assistants will be welcomed too for the hoster.

Haha , problems right from the start.

Differing opinions ...

oh well.

I'm not interested in doing it based on any kind of polling or voting.

So, it will be a clone of what is here.

Who is going to say what is right or wrong in the articles?

Maybe there should be a poll on whether there should be a poll on one voted for article published or many.

LOL

I'm hesitant to get involved because there will never be a consensus on how it should be done. However, I have plenty of storage space spread out across many domains / web sites. I can easily set up a site where articles can be posted, and then voted upon and comments made. If there is enough interest and those involved want me to do it, I would be willing to get it off the ground.

I started my loose leaf tech manual for two reasons: trying to find something you remember seeing on here sometime in the past is often frustrating at best, and impossible at worst...and often links to photos hosted offsite are no longer valid. Then, there are all those sites (car club sites, personal sites, etc.) that have some great articles - but you never know when a site is going to disappear or be changed, so the link saved in your bookmarks might someday be useless. One guy's personal site that had a good article on the tranny crossmember mod comes to mind. If I hadn't printed it (or otherwise saved it) I wouldn't be able to access that information.....I'd have to rely on memory. That's not a good idea at my age.

For instance...

recent threads.

car stalling after a few minutes.

I think the most agreed on diagnosis is bad coil.

But it could be anything, fuel delivery, blocked gas cap, swelled fuels lines , junk in carby, pinhole leak in fuel lines, etc etc.


Does the an mgtech site want just a whole lot of separate articles form differing opinions,

That is already here.......

I would suggest that the winning article writer of that , would write to check the easiest and quickest and cheapest thing FIRST.

1. Gas Cap for blockage.
(do this by xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)

2. Fuel delivery at carby.
(do this by xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)

3. Swap coil for known working one.
(do this by xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)

etc etc .etc. proceeding down the list in order including checking ignition to checking for rat's nests in exhaust pipe.



Of course there would be added info on how to check and do these things in sequence.

NOW THERE WILL BE DIFFERING OPINIONS ON MY OPINION.

SO THAT IS WHY THERE SHOULD BE ONE ONLY ARTICLE THAT IS MOST VOTED FOR PUBLISHED.

Articles can be suggested for amendment from time to time.

Even Laws aren't set in stone.

Ok, my mistake, can you suggest a few to get the ball rolling on your brilliant ideas.

I thought you wanted a site like Steve S has suggested before.....

A commonly asked question and answer site.

I wasn't thinking of a site listing commonly asked questions from newbies...a FAQ, if you will. I think most of the unpublished library articles are actually items where someone was thinking outside the box...presenting an idea not previously published in the common sources...or at least showing details that are lacking in those publications for difficult or seldom done tasks.....

Examples? I dunno.....maybe some of the guys with the unpublished articles will chime in. I've got a couple on my personal website <http://home.comcast.net/~josephgreed/>: the fabrication of an aluminum mud shield for the RB cars, and the use of a Porsche 944 heater valve.....both of which need to be redone to add more detail.

Such as?

Tapping foot ...waiting

I think you would run into problems very quickly, worthy though the idea is.

Voting wouldn't work IMO as there are some things said in this forum which are either plain wrong or misleading, but said by many who believe they are right. They would presumably vote for what they believe so that information would end up being published and accepted as gospel by less knowlegeable readers.

Who is to say that a porsche 944 heater valve is a brilliant idea?

you?

No offense intended, but a big ego is needed for that.

Maybe you should change any topic heading to....

good ideas....and solutions to the stock heater valve.

Then you may end up with 100 different ideas in no particular order except for who was awake and sober and crackfree and posting at the time.

I am only 2 of these at any given time, in no particular order.

Nevermind. I have no intentions of entering into such an endeavor and having it turn into a full time job.

BTW, I didn't mean to imply that the 944 heater valve is in the category of "brilliant" ideas. I'm still not convinced that it's even a "good" idea. The brilliant ideas I was thinking of were some I've seen others mention over the years.

Ok, take a scenario.

A topic is made..

solutions to the stock heater valve.

20 articles come in.

The editor whacks 'em in as they come.

The porsche 944 is number 16 on the list.

BUT IT IS THE BEST SOLUTION THERE.

A newbie comes to this site .

He says , I have a leaky rotted out heater valve, what do I do.

He is referred (URL).

How is he gunna know which is best?

If the porsche 944 was voted best, it would be up top.

Named BEST solution as voted on my MGE.

And from 2 to 20 named OTHER solutions.

Don't forget, who ever hosts this possible new site will have have a lot of traffic.

If he has any nous, he can sell advertising and make money.

The hardest thing will be for the editor to do is decide how many articles on the same topic go in the poll and to choose which to go in.

On this, I think there should be 2 unbiased assistants to help decide, or pals of pals will win.

I say 10 articles for the final poll would be maximum or eles the topic soultion will just turn in pages of drivel.

(How many here, say "I haven't read the whole post, but this is the way to do it". and it may have been said 5 posts in from start.)

Then when voting is done, any people who have a gripe can step in while deliberating about the merits of the winner, and why they were not even considered for polling.

Sort of like at a wedding.... at the last minute, the guests are asked...."if anyone here is opposed to this marriage, speak up now", some probably would like to jump at say YEH!!!!!.

Once this is done and dusted, the post is up.

No more changes, except maybe every 3 months a topic may be put up for any amendments if suggested.

After about 20 initial basic topics, it will slow down to a trickle.

You can post tech articles on my site free. send them to info@miller-garage.com

Umm , ONE site for all would be better.

Crap Pooch, why do you think it is such a bad idea? No need to take something simple and make a big production out of it.

Now we get a poll for who the experts are gunna be.

Some of the best advice I've gleaned from the web/forums has been in the form of short blog posts or replies, nothing like a full-blown article, often from people who'd never think of submitting an article and on subjects you'd never get someone writing an article on. With that in mind, you might find that you have trouble with a lack of article submissions as people are either daunted by the prospect of writing a 'big' article or don't think their submission is 'worthy' (where they couldn't be more wrong).
My solution would be a site which allowed people to create their own mini-blog where they can record their restoration/modding, and have a web address they can send people to (like www.mgb-restoration.com/adamliptrot). This would take away the 'daunting' part of the submissions as it would effectively be their own site. The trick would then be to allow the author to tag each entry with one or more of a pre-set list of keywords (like 'engine', 'clutch', 'windscreen' etc ), which you could collate across the whole site.
That would provide you with multiple viewpoints on a specific task without too much administrative overhead, and a decent spread of article subjects.
Those are just my initial thoughts on the idea, but in general I'm all for easier to access info!

I have thought of that in the past and have room on my site. It will get changed over Christmas break anyhow. Good idea Joe. I would put them up as submitted unless they seemed to be not possible.

JDW just started a thread on the dash indicator light, and whether the alternator will charge without it. All of the experts have always said, "No." JDW just proved - at least with his car - that the alternator, in fact, will charge with a burned out bulb. "Common wisdom" is updated everyday here. Who has the time, computer savvy, LBC expertise, $$$, and authority to make regular updates to this hypothetical tech site?

How do you handle it when serious experts honestly disagree about technical issues? Are you suggesting separate articles for two-stage paint, single-stage paint, three-stage paint, and rattle can? How do you handle honest disagreements concerning wet sanding, colour sanding, and block sanding?

I'm not really poo-pooing the idea here, Pooch - just thinking there's a lot of unforeseen work involved.

~edit~ I said, "Jack" in the original post. It's John Weimer. My apologies, John.

Solid post, Rick. All valid points, and a good view into why something like this cannot be done without flaw. It either gets done and is accepted for what it is - as good a reference site as a community can make it - or it is abandoned and the community goes on unchanged.

Nothing wrong with making an effort to improve the hobby in my opinion, but it's not a small task, even for an experienced web designer, to create something that will agree with the majority of users.

A section on your site would be ideal, Chris. I have a feeling we're thinking along the same lines...keep it simple.

All this crap about polls, voting, a jury of expert judges, etc. is silly. There's no need to make that big a deal out of it. Just post the articles as written and, as is the case with everything else on the internet, let the viewer decide for himself if the advice or techniques shown are best for him. So what if there are 6 different articles on windscreen replacement? If I were doing that for the first time, I'd readall of 'em and decide which method I wanted to try. I don't need some jury of experts or a vote of my peers to decide for me. Bob M's site with the alternative heater valves is a good example. He post's all the options have come up with and lets you decide which one (if any) you prefer. No need to editorialize. I think most MG owners have the ability to look at what others have done and come to a decision as to what they are comfortable with. If not, they're probably not going to be tackling anything more complicated than changing spark plugs anyway.

I think the easiest way to put this on a site would be to have the articles submitted in pdf format, and simply have a table of contents page with links to those articles..such as "Windscreen Replacement, by Joe Blow". Having them as pdf files (as opposed to web pages) is a LOT less work for a webmaster...all you have to create is a link, as opposed to creating one page (or multiple pages) complete with images, etc. Having them in pdf format also allows the user to quickly and easily save the article on their hard drive or print the article. If someone just had their article in something like Word format, converting it only takes a couple of seconds.

O dear I have just found the reason for the poll thread,that just goes to show,you need to read! and backs up what I said in the poll thead.

But I wish I'd never said anything now:S

I use this site for advice, opinions, and questions on how to do lots of things. Joe hit the nail on the head when he mentioned using the search function. I'm in the middle of my first rebuild and been doing research here and on the web. The BEST search feature I've found on how to do things has been using plain old google.. I was surprised how many old posts it referred me to that were right here on the forum. I even tried using the forum search function and google at the same time and was amazed and how google narrowed them down much more specifically then the forum's search function did.

A tech library is a good idea, and while I agree it be nice to have, but, at the end of the day you'll wind up doing whatever your doing your own way based on the idea of how 3 or more might have done it. It may be easier for each to do like Joe and take ownership of ideas and suggestions and cataloging themselves.

Just my two cents.

Which brings to mind why Bob's site would be the natural choice; he has already got it going on!

cost to register a domain and host on 1and1.com is a couple bucks a month. Depends on volume, of course. But domain nam,e registration is included free.

I promise to step lightly here :) ...I think

Another way to handle the reference part of a site would be if someone setup a wiki. The wiki might include, as an example, a reference something like "Windscreen installation" or "fuel-pump repair". These would be "living" documents on the procedure. Seems like I remember seeing free wiki software somewhere. This still would require an uncompensated effort on someone's part.

A lower effort alternative: To "vet" the articles the author would post them here first for "constructive" advice, then forward to the tech site manager for posting.

This site is great but I agree a direct set of reference documents would be helpful.

ATF. :D

My MGB Tech pages that are posted in the website and not linked or a pdf have a rating vote. The comments option is turned off because of hackers posting crap.

Sills Article

I agree with having a simple setup with tech articles included that are organized and easily searchable.

I have been building up my own *.pdf files of articles that I think are relevant from this site and keeping them on my own hard drive.

I have more difficulty with voting on the "best" article - the process is cumbersome and the results dubious. I value the differing opinions and techniques set out because they provide me with alternatives based on experience. I'm a big enough boy to pick a path through a bit of controversy.

Today's discussion of installing a window regulator, for example, is incredibly valuable to me. I won't go through that install for a few months, but I'll definitely follow the article and preserve the discussion. The responders added their tips based on their experience. I need that!

To me, the key to the site's usefulness and longevity would be the simplicity for the host and the ability to find articles quickly. The search function of this site is somewhat hampered by the entertaining variety of topic headings. My favorite from a few days ago was "MGB".

The problem as I see it.....in my less than humble opinion, is who is gonna sort thru this and discard all the chaf? There is a lot of mis-information that gets passed around on this forum (like all forums). Nobody is right all the time....even guys like John Twist (who most people think of as the "MG Guru") make mistakes. Whose opinion is the correct one? After being on this site for 11 months, I think that the popular vote sure would be wrong as often as not. Just another 'opinion'.

I submitted numerous requests for information for format so I could submit an article on Fuel injection. It's been Nearly TWO YEARS. I had decided to post the information piecemeal on the forum, but ALL the PICTURES MORE THAN A YEAR OLD WERE DELETED!! . Perhaps we need to hire some help for our forum. Otherwise, all of our efforts to show and document go down the drain in a year or so.

It has made me interested in creating or changing the sites which I visit and contribute to regarding MGB.

Someone here must know.

Does the owner of this site have any copyright or other ownership rights to the material?

That is, if someone set up a site and posted archival material from this site, would there be any legal implications?

Technically yes, as well as being morally wrong. Surprisingly I don't see any copyright information anywhere on the site so perhaps there is a loophole, but it's still not something I would ever do without permission. My guess is that permission would never be given. Also, it would be fairly difficult to pull off without direct access to the site database.

If the material is used for private study or research, I do not believe there is any issue about copyright. The material posted here is essentially in the public domain. It is, however, at the very least good manners to reference other people's work when using it elsewhere. I know that I did did not sign away rights to the material I've posted here, so it would take a rather talented (politically connected) lawyer to cheat me out of my right to use the material I posted here elsewhere.
If a site such as this tried to allege ownership of the material, then a simple circumvention would be to have the contributors of forum material themselves provide the material again to a new or different site.

Everyone has opinions on this....

Here is mine: Skye has had many submissions for the Library from Forum members that have not been published. I'm sure everyone agrees to that. Instead of setting up a new website I think it would be beneficial to this site and less cumbersome to have all of the info in this Library. You can't really blame Skye for not publishing all submitted to him because he alone can not determine if the submissions are good ones. If he published ONE bad one could you imagine the flack he would get plus the credibility of the library would be hurt.

Someone mentioned in a previous thread that a panel of the experts on here could look at what ever is sent in to determine if it is worthwhile (for the new website) .... informative and correct. I'm sure you get my drift so why not approach Skye with a list of no more than a few members that could help him in the process.

Skye,

Are you out there? Your thoughts?

Cheers
Paul

I just saw one from Andrew Bird submitted this year.

I guess this one died?

I believe this is a general and serious issue which in the long run will make people lose interest in this site. The site has become more of the same stuff over and over because there seems no desire to properly archive and publish information. There are two different experiences I've had which conviced me of that. They are:

1. I have made many contributions and submitted many carefully annotated photographs and drawings-dozens of them- only to find they were summarily deleted (without warning). I worked thoroughly and carefully on the material and posted it so it would be shared-not deleted. I found this out when I referred someone to a post I made and all the drawings and photos were deleted. Without them, the post was worthless. When I made inquiry, I given a flippant answer and was told I should expect stuff like that.
Now the same questions are asked again and again which were already answered fully before, but the answers deleted.
2. I offered to post an article on electronic fuel injection and got no response whatsoever for a year. I got disgusted with the lack of any feedback for a long time, and I finally started hounding with email just to get a reply. Then when I finally got a lame and discouraging reply, I decided not to beg to make a contribution. I felt offended by the poor treatment I got and sad that others and I have supported the site and do not get what we want-- a way to share and archive knowledge about these cars. I have posted an outline of the material elsewhere and was thanked by them for the opportunity to post it.

Joe,
I turned my whole site over to Basil at the British Car Forum. I cannot host it on my site any longer, but I knew that some folks might value the info there in the future. Basil was kind enough to take it, and perhaps you might wish to talk to him about your project. He may have already thought about inventing that wheel and have some thoughts about the project.