Never done a valve adjustment...can I please?

Yo,

[I want to do a valve adjustment on my B...1979]. I don't know how to adjust valves. I'm getting my distributor dialed in by Jeff Schlemmer and I want the valves to be at their best adjustment possible, with my new Pertronix coil and electronic ignition in the distributor. I've never adjusted the valves since I purchased this B back in 2000.

I've read about the tool Moss sells, that enables the user to do the job with 'one-click' the way the ad reads, versus the two tool job?

I do know that my brother over-adjusted his valves years ago on his first B - and it messed it up pretty good. I won't make that mistake, hence my post. Whomever is the noted expert here, chime in and tell me how to do this job! Thank you, Dan

Dan,

Will PM you. Just curious How many miles have you put on your B?

It's really simple. I've used the moss tool and I've gone back to using a 1/2 inch wrench and a screwdriver as its just as easy. Just use the rule of 9's loosen the fan belt, pull the spark plugs then use a 1 5/16th socket to turn the engine over to set the valves and go at it. Kinda scary looking at it the first time but once you start you will see how easy it is.

Do you have a Haynes manual?

Take it out to your car, pop the bonnet, and dig in. You will figure it out pretty easily. Any monkey can do a valve adjustment.

Edit: You don't have to loosen the fanbelt either. Just put it in 4th gear and push it back and forth...

Yep, in 4th that's how I was taught to do it.

Paul

Hey Guys, I do have a Haynes manual...I'll read up. I've glanced over that sections tons of times, never stopped long enough to comprehend what is written there though. I have a basic idea though. I've also heard hearsay about whether the valves are warm or cold, as to how the adjustment is done? Mine is going to be cold. The car hasn't been started for a bit under a month...as I'm in the midst of, and almost finished with beautifying the engine bay and engine. Almost done! It is almost as nice as Mr. McLaren's engine bays if I may be so bold.

When you say, (Stewart)...["use a 1 5/16th socket to turn the engine over"] do I understand that to mean, [the bolt in front of the crank], to turn the engine one revolution or whatever...so the valves open, close?

I'm the sort to ask questions, read - then confirm what I read in print (in the manual and these posts) then do it!

I don't have the room to push it back and forth right now - she's in the garage, as I've got tools, stuff all around the front wheels...I've almost with the prep/paint/polish of every nut/bolt and piece of metal anywhere in eyeshot in the engine bay. I'm going to have dinner in my engine bay tonight, and watch the tube, since my engine bay and engine are cleaner than the Hubble Telescope.

Dan,

Thanks!

Just my opinion regarding hot or cold while adjusting valvels. When the engine is running it's hot so I adjust when it's hot.

Hey Paul, That does make sense to adjust when hot. Since though, I would prefer to get'r done before I start up for the first time after re-assembly. I just have the distributor to send/get back from Jeff -- next week I'll have it back. Then install, set the distributor, then the carbs, cooling system and I'll be ready to go. I'm about 5 or so hours away -- I take my time and don't rush.

So -- is hot adviseable only....or can or should valves be adjusted when cold???

the tool (not exclusively from moss) is not quite as slick as it is described. DO get the Bentley manual (for your car, the Red manual--for 74-80 cars. hard to find. Atlanta Imported has them, or let me know I have a new one I never used and likely will not ever use.

but, as an official Old Goat (one of many, if not most of us here<g>) I can say that I have one and I have found it a little easier to handle as one piece than a screwdriver AND half-inch box wrench. I have not found the click and count the clicks to work quite as nice as they describe, but it does seem close and for starters seems a good idea. just don't consider it finished but recheck.

the valves are adjusted with the engine not running, by the "rule of 9s". That means you adjust #1 when #8 is FULL OPEN (meaning the rocker arm for that valve is down as far as it will go and any movement either way will bring the arm up). # is determined by counting from the front. #4 is the fourth valve counting from the front of the engine. It happens to be the exhaust valve on #2 cylinder.

The easiest way to advance the engine (cause the valves to open/close) is to have it in reverse gear, with the plugs all out, and push it down the driveway with your knees. (or pull it back if it went too far). the slope on the drive is a bit steep, then move it to the street.

the hard part is telling when the valve that is supposed to be down all the way really is down all the way. I've tried dial indicators and other stuff. but the best is put your finger on the collar of the valve spring and "commune with your finger" (sorry, old hippie talk<G>)

Then there is the question of doing it Hot or Cold.

Well, "hot" really is engine operating tempreature and, frankly, by the time your;re halfway thru the damn thing is coing to be cold anyway. so set it cold. usually the cold spec is two thou more.

then...tools. you will need a #2 screwdriver,a 1/2" box wrench, and a "go-nogo" feeler gage.

1 5/16th socket of the nut thats on the main pully. If you have electric fans ignor loosening the belt as you only need to do that with the engine mounted fans.

Dan,

watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fezXUwVfH7U

I used to roll the car back and forth and even use a dial guage to determine when a valve was open until i watched the video mentioned above.

Here is John's video on how to jog the motor under the hood to complete the instructions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVxIW_pImjw

All of my experience and readings has told me to adjust cold.

Nice explanation Mac, like the idea of going down the hill in reverse. If too steep you can always pinch the ebrake a tad.

Haynes manual. So simple.

Hey Guys, Wow - great expert response, way past my pea-brain on valve adjustments skills.

I'm not going to push the car around now - as I had said, she's in the garage, resting whilst I beautify the engine and bay. I just want to do the valve adjustment. Can or cannot do a standard valve adjustment with the car where it sits, in my garage, on a flat surface - cold as ice? Yeah or nay?

At the same time I ready the car, in terms of the updated distributor, and so on, so I can time everything correctly - (and believe this, I've never used a timing light)...okay, all belly laugh at once. She's a good runner - never had too - except back in '05 when I last did a tune up at the same shop that I occastionally go to -- but I actually do 95% of all the work myself, and I'm a complete layman. So, I'm going to get a timing light, and test light, to tool-up as-it-were to be a more competent entry-level MG do it yourselfer.

I've driven the car a ton - and went through the SU's (HS4's), cooling system, brakes, ingnition switch, seats, wheels, etc. in 07. I've removed everything, replaced it back, into the finished engine bay - polished everything so much, I have to wear a welders mask or I'll burn my cornea's -- so give me a break guys!

If you find that "rule of 9s" stuff confusing, just determine which valve to adjust the way my Dad taught me 50 years ago. If a valve on one cylinder is open all the way (or even close to it - you don't have to be exact), the other valve on that cylinder must be fully closed - so adjust that one. Keep track of which ones you adjust...you'll be surprised how easy it is to lose track since you won't be working from front to back, but skipping around! :D

Watch the video as Bruce suggested. I watched it , went outside, came back in watched it again, went outside, watched it again.. you get the drift.I did cheat and kept a small notepad handy so I wouldn't adjust the same one twice afer runningin and out.. you will notice a difference.

Sam

And clatter is normal. When you're done, if it's too quiet - you messed up; do it again. These engines are supposed to sound like a sewing machine.

Haynes manual has all the answers -- section 60 of Chapter One (1981 edition).

Yes you can adjust valves on level ground. I wouldn't recommend doing on a hill.

Haynes manual recommends removing the spark plugs, raising one rear wheel off the ground, and having an assistant turn that wheel while in top gear. Adust the valves in the sequence specified in the book. It really is easy -- I was the "assistant" and my 13-year-old son did the adjusting!

Adjust the valves cold. Haynes lists the clearances "cold" in the front part of the chapter. Besides, you can get the engine as hot as you like, but by the time you get done it'll be cold again, and your adjustment of the last valve will be different than your first valve.

BruceH Wrote:

I just did the GT's valves using the "rule of 9". Works good and I had the advantage of been able to use a socket on the balancer nut (no rad installed). Piece of cake with this but don't know if there'd be room with the rad in place.

Good thing I checked them as only 2 of the 8 were set correctly; the others were too tight.

i've always just pulled the spark plugs, put it in neutral and pulled on the fan belt to turn the engine. wear heavy gloves to keep from getting blisters. and i'm no fitman.

bro..

tis pretty easy .adjusting valves actually more check than adjust i think. i found the Chiltons instruction easier to understand than haynes.removing the plugs make the engine turn so easy all that jive about wrenches and in gear pushing is moot, i just reach down and pull on the v-belt,

cold ...015 inch ....wish i had a it would be nice to have a GO--No-Go feeler gage , but i do not , there is a *feel* that one developes using feeler gages , micrometers etc.. learning what the proper measurement drag is,, hard to describe .. when i pulled the top cover off it was the first time i had it off on this one in wow ten years i guess.. only adjusted the setting on two ..all the rest *Felt Good* .. the feel is nice , not too tight not too looses, the measurement feel of precisly machined steel in close proximity with an exact gage , i think it feeling molecular adhesion heh...


anyway the chiltons has an illustration of which valve is which number. # 1 is at the front.... better to have them set too loose than too tight ,, too loose means the valvle does not open to spec. and reduces the flow of gases , in and out whichever it is, too tight means the valve may not get closed good N tight and leaks , hot gasses burn the seat and sealing surfaces and that is a bad thing..


Chat up some of your clients ,, there will be one more than happy to share life experience and teach you about usiing feeler gages and assist....

mrb

Yo Michael, It's like when I read your post, I can 'feel the force' flowing about you and your MG and through the valves, an energy eminating from betwixt the valves of your B...Luke feel the force, don't deny it young Skywalker! lol!

After my post, I'm overwhelmed with several different methods in which to adjust my valves. I will read some manuals first, then examine, then ask questions at my local shop -- maybe they can oversee me adjusting my valves for the first time, we'll see. In the mean time, I'm going to send my Distributor to Jeff and he's going to dial it in. By then, I'll have my cooling system back in place, after the complete beautification I've done to the engine bay and engine! Can't wait to show you all the finished product!

I just have the radiator, (polished the top/bottom tank and overflow tank) to that gorgeous copper color, install the new fan, hoses, polish and install the carbs, distributor, time and tune then fire up! About two weeks away!

Are you planning on attending Gary’s Run ?

Dan, the only unknown is "Is the cam in your car stock?"

My replacement cam came with valve setting specs that are different than stock and the lash is set hot.

When I wrenched at a Honda dealer, we set the Honda MC engine valves with the piston at TDC on a compression stroke.
I use the rule of nines on the B. Next time I will see if the lash is the same after setting them with the MC method.

Remember, a tappy engine is a happy engine.

I don't live that far from you. I could come over and help saturday if my honda gets out of the shop here in Redding CA today. I don't even use the rule of nines on my own cars but would be willing to help you to using any of the methods you choose. I prefer doing the job on a cold engine as one is not rushed by the engine cooling off.
DW

Interesting note on the "unknown cam". I bought a rebuilt motor and the PO had forgotten which cam was put in. Only knew that it was a mild street cam. Now when I go to set my valves, do I set to the original spec or what. Is there anyway to ascertain which cam you have short of opening it up?

Good point on the cam. I've emailed Sid Olson, the previous owner of my B...I'll find out!

I just got back from Dans. We had a good time learning the rule of nines together. Thanks Dan.
We ended up making almost all the valves looser than they were. When we were done triple checking, I rechecked them by setting the crank at TDC #1 firing, checking half the valves, then #4 TDC and checking the other half. I've never used the rule of nines before and wanted to see if there would be a difference. Had I done it the way I always have in the past, I would have had most of the valves looser still. Hmm, interesting.
DW