Rear Telescopic Conversion

I purchased my 63 MGB in a number of boxes and I am slowley restoring it. In the boxes were a set of brackets (one pair shown in the attachement) for a the rear telescopic shock absorber conversion. I have looked on the internet and in a number of books but have not been able to locate information about the actual shockers to use with these brackets. The car has standard springs and ride height.

Can anyone on this forum assist me with any information the brackets,shocker brands and possible part numbers?

Thanking you in anticipation for your assistance.

All I can tell you is the right bracket is the lower one and the left is the top one.

Those look very much like the brackets that were supplied with the Koni kits. The dampers were too long to utilize the standard lower attachment plate, so they had to supply them with that extension to lower the bottom "eye" of the shock absorber (not good for ground clearnace). While those particular kits are no longer available, Koni does still make the dampers themselves on a special order basis (Part number 80-1244SP1) if you were inclined to go that route.

The green color of your brackets suggests they could have come with another brand of damper....perhaps Bilstein, Gaz, or Spax? In any case, the brackets are virtually identical to the ones Koni were supplying.

Agreed; looks like Koni brackets. The color is different. IMHO, you can't beat Konis. I have them on my "B"(rear), big diesel Mercedes, and had them on the rear of my now sold '76 XJC Jag. They are adjustable, have a life time warranty (the last time I checked), controls the car AND are comfortable. Koni is a Dutch company and has a plant in the U.S. The Tire Rack in the U.S. sells them. Koni has a website.

John,
I have a telescopic conversion from Peninsula Sports Cars in Brookvale (Sydney). This uses the existing lower mounting (swapped left to right).
The bracket shown in your photo would drop the ground clearance unnecessarily, and appears to have been made only to accommodate a longer than necessary shock absorber, as Ben says.
It might be worthwhile having a talk to Geoff Morse at Peninsula or Bruce Smith at Sportsparts.


Regards,
David

First post eh Aussiejohn - I trust you're not the Aussiejohn. You could also try Nepean Classic or Heritage MG - both also made kits. BTW consensus on MGE is to stick with the original Armstrongs with telescopics being 'difficult' to get the required adjustment. IIRC if you put telescopics on the rear you need them on the front because of the different handling characteristics. If you haven't got Armstrongs (front and/or rear) you might look for Peter Caldwell on here. Despite being in the US he should be able to supply you a refurbished set for less than the cost here including shipping.

OK, I'm going to stick my neck out one very last time on this subject before "aussiejohn" spends a lot of his money on overseas postage. I realise most over there on MGE disagree, but telescopic rear conversions DO work well WITH THE CORRECT SHOCK ABSORBERS. MGBs are very light in the rear, and putting shocks calibrated for regular sedans is never going to give a decent ride, and it's this problem that gives the telescopic conversions their bad reputation.
Amongst other benefits, you eliminate linkages and therefore lost motion with telescopics. The Nepean Classics conversion Barrie refers to were developed by Peddars (long established suspension specialists), specifically for the MGB, with shocks dimensioned and calibrated for the MGB.
My Nepean Classics tubular (hydraulic, not gas-filled) shocks work superbly well. They're a very popular fitting here around Sydney, and I've never heard of a single person changing back to levers after fitting them. Those that argue against them simply haven't driven a car fitted with them.
As for those brackets, I've no idea which conversion they're off, but with the Nepean Classics conversion only costing about $215 all up, it hardly matters if you need to buy a set of shock absorbers anyway.

nice of you stick up for Nepean Thomas - if I hadn't already had my armstrongs rebuilt by one of the last (in Brisbane) old time shocker guys I may well have looked very carefully at Nepean (I did go out there some time back to chat with them - was it Bob Hope? And that's despite my comment above which is largely driven by comments about overseas kits. What do you have on the front?

Barrie, I looked at a front telescopic conversion Nepean was selling at the time, and I didn't like it at all. Like some other similar arrangements that I've seen elsewhere, it involved retaining the shocks, disabled, as the top A-arms, and crudely adding telescopic shocks outboard of the springs. It looked cobbled and nasty with a compromised arc of action for the shocks.
I suspect you can't better the MGB's basic, old fashioned and inherently limited front suspension's performance without spending big dollars on a proper, modern coil over shock arrangement. That's going to cost a whole lot more than $215 for a pair of shocks though.
Mind you, the MGB rear suspension is not properly sorted just with a pair of dampers either. That live rear axle desperately needs to be better located. I found out by means I'd have prefer to have avoided, that there's a remarkable amount of lateral movement under load in a semi-elliptic spring supported axle. A Panhard rod would help greatly there, but their somewhat asymmetrical arc of action worries me (that a Watt's linkage solves), but then honestly, how far do you want to take things in a car designed over fifty years ago with componentry probably more like seventy years old in design. Personally I'm happy to retain the spirit of the old car and its inherent limitations, and just fiddle a bit at the edges.

The RH bracket goes on the LHS, bottom. Or you can swap and flip existing as per Davids suggestion above,
I agree that koni are the best, not the cheapest though, and I could not find any complaints about GAZ on the net when I bought a pair a couple of years ago. Less than half the price, 32 hardness settings. I'm still using british automotives specially valved KYB's but plan to use the GAZ when the KYB's wear. I found setting 3 or 4 was was about the same as the Armstrongs. That's the thing, the MGB rear is really light and needs a really light shocker.
I could find quite allot of complaints about spax, too hard. The best anyone could say about them re MGB was that they didn't notice the rough ride, 'ard men, tough guys!
What Thomas says about the front shocker kits it dead right.
Peters rebuild shockers from world wide have become something of a byword. He even makes adjustable versions.

http://www.mgocspares.co.uk/acatalog/info_16831W_HMP213011.html

Thomas when I first started working out what I wanted to do I looked seriously at the link above which is alas nla (fortunately for my pocket). There is a frontline/Costello version but I've spent too much besides I'd need to import it, clear it and pay GST!

The Konis I mentioned above were designed for the MGB, which is why they they are only available as special order items these days.

To Paul's comment...while i'm a big fan of Konis, their lifetime warranty should be taken with a massive grain of salt...getting them to honor it is like trying to pin down a greased pig. A couple of years ago, I bought a pair of Koni strut inserts for my Cortina from a well-known Lotus specialist, and one of them leaked right out of the box. I called the vendor, and he said they were close-out stock, so I had to work with Koni.

I contacted Koni, and the conversation went something like this:
-One of my new struts is leaking, can I send it in for repair? - What car are these being used on, and can you provide proof that you own the car?
-Why does that matter, they were never mounted on the car? - We need this information to process your request
-It's a Cortina, and yes, I can can provide proof of ownership - Koni never made Cortina struts
-Then what were these made for? - We don't know, our records don't go back that far
-Then how do you know they are not Cortina struts? - Nobody here remembers making cortina struts
-Can I pay to have Koni repair this strut? - Sure, we'll pass your case over to our repair group
-No response...ever...despite 3-4 follow-up requests

i have the same mounts - came with adjustable Koni Special D's - a very long time ago

the square one bolts under the spring in place of the current mount - (thus the 4 holes) - the rectangular one bolts into the existing upper holes

- green color is irrelevant - it's juat whatever spraycan somebody happened to have

.

All the Koni brackets I've seen have been gloss black, but they were also pretty beat up out of the box.

I agree that they are the same drop type as used in the Koni kits because the MGB Koni shock was too long to fit using the now popular swap and reverse the standard lower spring plate setup.

The extended lower brackets can also come in handy if you are running a lowered MGB. I needed to use a pair of Koni lower mounts when installing new Spax shocks on my race car.

I've had good results running rear tube shocks, but it's critical that the damping be matched carefully to the spring rates. Too stiff of a shock and the rear of the car bounces like a pogo stick.

If you want to experiment with the brackets, send me a PM and I'll give you the Monroe part numbers for the shocks Moss is currently using in their rear conversion kit. They are a good match for the original springs. They should work ok with those lower brackets, but you would want to check full extension to make sure the shocks don't over extend.

Ben, can't comment on warranty service as I have never had a problem - about 38 years on the MGB and about 15 years on the diesel Benz. (the Jag is long gone) Larry, mine are Special D's also. No problem with ground clearance as the center muffler clears the way!

Benny, I had heard that the tube shock conversions tore out the car body over time. Those brackets look like they would be fine. Do you have any experience with that?? Obciously you know the system pretty well.

Lots of talk about different brand shocks that can be used, any part numbers to go with the brands? I'd like to put a little better tube shock on the rear than Monroe currently on the car.

Thanks Benny. I've always gone with the stock Armstrongs, partly because of stories, but I haven't tried one or even ridden in one. It's always good to ask the man who owns one, to borrow from Packard, to get the real info. Looking at this hangar design, it looks like it would hold up as well as a stock shock. Thanks for the info!

Ben, the only reason that I switched to Koni's is that the rear lever action shocks started leaking after only about 2 years on my new car. I thought that was crap. So, I looked for someting better. Group 44 had a retail store near by, so I got Koni shocks for my B from them. I have never had a problem and I "think" that the B handles better - at least that is what I thought at the time of the switch. If I had known of a person back then who repaired Armstrongs, I might have gone that way.

Chris,
When I fitted my telescopics I forgot(!) to switch the lower mounting plates. This resulted in the shocks bottoming out and shearing the upper mounts while my wife was driving over fire trails in a charity rally.
There was no damage whatsoever to the body - as Benny said that part of the body is very strong.
(There was nearly some damage to my marriage however as my wife had to drive a further 2 days with no rear dampers! She found that MGBs are rather skittish on dirt under those conditions.)

I'm in Ben's camp. I've used tube shocks for decades. I keep Armstrongs on one car just for reference.

It's not worth the trouble of posting anymore.


Ben - Sorry mate. I might be able to cough up a coil over conversion kit or two, but the Frontline conversion is out of my price range too.

I do have a Hopkinson Bilstein kit for all four corners, but I've got plans for that.

K.

I switched to Spax tube shocks on a GT 25 or so years ago. I felt then and still feel that the tube shocks offer a noticeably improved ride.

I have an old Koni kit on my car and the brackets look like that. The Koni shocks after many, many years finally needed to be replaced. The guys at NAPA here spent a lot of time helping me identify a suitable replacement shock that seems to be working very well for me for a couple of years now.

The same brackets came with my first set of Spax shocks in the 80's. For chrome bumper cars, the threaded bolt on the smaller bracket must face to the top, while RB cars have to have it shifted to the bottom. The larger one goes to the bottom of the springs. there it replaces the junction plate that has the con rod of the lever arm shocks connected to.
I'm very satisfied with the Spax setup for nearly 24 years by now but installing them means to watch out that they are set to the softest degree. On the V8 I set them to the 2nd. click after 12 years and recently thy are just taken one step further out of 20!
On the roadster, I started with position 3 8 years ago and it is still OK, although the car is used for track days too.

Ralph

The only thing I would add to the discussion is to get a set of upper adjustable mounting brackets from MGAMGB.com

http://www.mgamgb.com/ADJUSTABLE_UPPER_MOUNTING_BRACKET_KIT.pdf

The bring the shock almost vertical and improve shock performance dramatically.

I think Benny hit the nail on the head. Both setups work well if the valve rates are correct.
I just bought a 1976 B with tube shocks on it. It seems a little hard. I think the kit is SPAX and might see if I can adjust the rear . I was thinking about going back to stock shocks.

Percentage Of Effectiveness

Perpendicular 100%
+ / - 10 Degrees 98%
+ / - 20 Degrees 92%
+ / - 30 Degrees 86%
+ / - 40 Degrees 74%
+ / - 50 Degrees 68%

From a rockcrawler forum

My BSA A65, my Norton Commando and my current Honda ST1100 all had/have their rear spring/damper units inclined. The Velocette motorcycle's rear units were in fact designed to be adjustable through an arc, to make the rear suspension softer or firmer according to the owner's preference. The designer of that adjustable arrangement incidentally was non other than Phil Irving, the same guy who designed the Vincent motorcycles and the Repco Brabham three litre Formula One winning V8 engine. (Based on the same Buick Oldsmobile Pontiac V8 that ultimately became the Range Rover/MG etc V8; but I digress). The point is that many motorcycle designers, many of who were pretty clever guys, saw little problem in inclining the shock absorber to the extent we're talking about in an MGB application.