MG MGB and MGB GT Tech Talk
Hi People.
I am trying to decide what to do with my starter in my early 74 B. It cranks over OK, but you have to hit the key a few times to get it to go. It will just make a loud click most of the time the first few tries. I think that the starter solenoid is week/dirty or something but am not sure how to fix it. I don't want to just get a new one and have it be some crappy rebuild that won't last the summer. What do you folks think? Thanks
It's probably just dirty contacts in the solenoid.
Your call:
Take it apart and clean it up.
Take it apart and install a new solenoid
Buy a new, replacement aftermarket starter - The quality seems good, no problems with failures.
Check around on local rebuilds. Moss rebuilds are expensive, especially when you factor in shipping the core back. But on the other side, the company rebuilding them used to be the Lucas official rebuilder and they are done correctly with good quality components.
You could go with a gear reduction replacement, but I'm not sold on using these on post 1968 cars, as the original starters are pretty robust.
Personally, I'd just throw a good used one in, since they don't commonly have problems.
But I'm a real cheapskate
Before you go buying starters make sure that the system that supplies current to it is on great shape.
This might sound a little "over the top" but I would start with the battery. Remove the thing and clean it well using dish detergent and a brush and finally a rinse in a mix of baking soda and warm water. While it is out clean the living tar out of the cable ends. If they have been replaced by repair type clamps replace them with new ones and clean the cable strands while they are off with vinegar.
While you are doing all of this add a clean-up of the battery posts until they are shiny bright and put the battery on a charger at a low rate overnight.
Then move to the ground end of the negative cable. Unbolt it from the body and clean the terminal with steel wool. Clean the place where it attaches to the body too. Clean up the bolts before reattaching the cable.
There is a ground strap somewhere on the car that makes connection between the power unit (engine and transmission) and the body structure. It will be either at the left front motor mount or across the gap between the body and the transmission. Where ever you find it, pull it off, clean it well and reinstall it with clean bolts and washers.
When you get all of this done, try the starting thing again. If the problem has disappeared you are good and it didn't cost a small fortune. If it is still there, you haven't wasted a moment because all of that work needs to be done every once in a while anyway.
Jack
Add this...
If it turns out to be a bad starter, my suggestion would be to call some of your local tractor shops and ask them who they use for rebuilding. The Lucas starters may weigh a ton but they work well for a long time and are easy to rebuild if you have the knowledge and tools.
If you catch them early and the armature hasn't trashed the field coils, all you have to do is replace the bushings, clean everything well, turn the commutator and install new brushes, maybe a solenoid.
I just picked up a Jag starter, same style as yours, from my rebuild guru and it cost me $67 including a new solenoid. Even if you have to pay twice that amount you will be ahead of the game.
Jack
If you buy a new starter ( depending on budget) you may want to look at the MGOC Hi Torque starter. This is a lot smaller and when in place can be removed easily without taking the dizzy out! Just a thought.
Jack X2
All of the parts are readily available for these starters - either from the usual suppliers or on eBay. Note that the Bendix is different for pre-1972 (?) and 1972+ starters (make sure you get the right one for your starter #).
If I were taking the starter apart to do a full rebuild, I would change the Bendix (starter drive), the bushings (soak in oil for a day before installing them), the brushes and maybe (if Jack is wrong) the solenoid. Those solenoids are pretty robust - definitely check for connections that are dirty or corroded before concluding it is the solenoid.
First take it apart and inspect the armature, the commutator and field coils. If they look good, do the rebuild.
My starter recently gave problems. Turned out the insulation on the field coil had broken down from exposure to dirt and oil (and 41 years). I got some really high tech electrical tape and redid the insulation. I was amazed to find that the bushings (last replaced in about 1975 or so) were like new - couldn't tell the difference from the new ones I had. I left the old ones in place - maybe in another 30 years I'll change them.
I know these starters aren't high tech - they are heavy as an anchor and draw lots of current. But they seem to be indestructible and work fine for years.
It sounds, as said, like you have worn/"dirty" contacts in the solenoid. They tend to get pitted more so than dirty, and the pitted surfaces of the contacts are pretty much the reason for higher "resistance" to current flow. Problem is, those contacts are intended to carry very high current demanded by the starter motor to turn the engine over, and that higher current and its arcing chew up the surfaces increasing resistance as they get worse.
IF the only real symptom you have is clicking before the starter finally catches and turns over the engine, it is most likely that replacing the solenoid will cure your problem, since the switch in question is an integral part of it. New solenoid, new switch.
As said you could fix it by dismantling the switch on the end of the solenoid. But at this point in time, you are probably better off replacing the solenoid even if the solenoid itself is OK but the switch has gone to hell. I've opened up some of these switches with the intent to clean them up and reuse, but frankly, the contacts of some (but not all) are not substantial enough to just dress up with a file/grinder - there just isn't enough left.
Stick with the stock unit. It is easy to "rebuild" and all of the necessary parts are readily available. RAY
Pitting of three year old solenoid contacts enough to cause intermittent 'clicking". Just worked on this today. FYI
Solenoids are cheap. There's definitely no point in replacing the entire starter assembly just because the solenoid is bad. I'd suggest just getting a new solenoid to start. You can always save and rebuild your old solenoid if you feel like it. Then you'll have a spare for next time.
Thanks for all the help. I am going to have to do something. Today when I started the car I had to turn the key 15 or 20 times before it started to crank. Once it starts cranking, it cranks great.
Javan, Take note a there is few things that can go wrong before the starter especially with the early seat belt arning system that was use in U.S market cars.
With a test check for power to red/white wire at the starter when the ignition is turned all the way on. When the key is relished the test light should go out. if you are not getting power to the red/white wire PM me I will guide you through more troubleshooting steps.
James
Just my $.02, but if you have ruled that it is the starter that is bad, get one of the gear reduction units. I put one in my 65, and I took about 15lbs off the car, just by replacing the giant boat anchor of a starter.
The engine spins like I have not seen before, and since the engine fires off faster, there is less draw on the electrical system.
I got mine from Hap at ACME Speedshop, and I love it.