MG MGB and MGB GT Tech Talk
I've been searching the web for sources of Fusor's metal adhesives. Found plenty.
But, does anyone know if any of the automotive supply stores (Auto Zone, etc.) carry thier product.
...considering it on new floor pan.
Larry,
I don't think the regular auto parts places have it. I get mine from the local auto paint and glass shop.
Lonnie
These are the comments I posted in the Trader section recently about gluing in floor panels. I don't know if you read them there, but I haven't change my opinion. Others may have a different opinion.
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I wouldn't do what you've done for a few reasons.
1. I know they glue planes and cars together, but the joints are specifically engineered for this method.
2. If I was buying an MG and was told it had te floor glued in, I'd walk away. If you never expect to sell, no problem, I guess.
3. I'm sure if you were in an accident with a passenger and they were injured, their lawyer would have a field-day with that.
Below is copied from the Lord Fusor website.
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LORD Fusor Metal Bonding Adhesives shall only be used for bonding metal to metal (steel or aluminum) in full or partial panel replacements of:
- Doors skins;
- Roof skins;
- Quarter panels;
- Rear body panels;
- Other outer body panels.
LORD Fusor products SHALL NOT be used for bonding structural components such as rails, pillars, rocker panels, core supports, etc. If in doubt as to what is a structural component, contact the vehicle manufacturer.
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Sorry, but IMHO, as a Mechanical Engineer, the floor of a 'B is structural.
[http://www.lordfulfillment.com/upload/UI3002.pdf]
Well according to that if I read it properly, it sounds as if it is only meant to 'hang' body panels to their supporting bulheads etc. Larry, I have never used this product but I am doubting that it would hold up to the stresses in the long haul when used in the floor pans. I think it would be a liability risk as previously mentioned. More than likely there are folks out there that have done what you are proposing and would say "they've never had a problem", but I would be leery of do so myself. I would sleep better knowing that my car was welded together. Alot more work true, but at least there would never be any doubts about the structural integrity of the vehicle then.
Larry - I bought a tube from a supplier in Cullman Alabama, this is a speciality item and is through reps only. Go to their website and do a search for a supplier in your area
Well I have thought about this as well. For body panels, yes. I know Lotus uses adhesive to bond the alluminum frame together on the Elise. I would say that the orange goop they use(not the hand cleaner, lol) is a much different formula than the "body adhesive" that many places sell. the Maxim stuff that Eastwood sells says the same thing about "non-strucural only" repairs. They must make something available to the average person that allows you to "glue" sills, frames, etc together.
peace, Kyle
I've posted on this before. I had the Fusor rep at my shop a few months ago. Thier products are designed to duplicate factory adhesives and for doing cosmetic repairs on plastic pieces such as bumper covers ect. Also, some of the plastic adhesives can save non structural plastic parts such as fan shrouds, electrical boxes ect. Some of the product is made to be used in conjunction with spotwelding. In other words, the pinchweld joint has adhesive applied and then welded through. This is done at the factory to add strength, seal out moisture and make the vehicle sound more solid. It could be done with a spotwelder but I doubt it would work well with the plug welds most of us do with Migs. The products are not meant as a substitute for welding in cases where the factory welded the joint. On a door skin the adhesive works because the panel is folded over so you have a mechanical attachment combined with the adhesive.
As far as what is structural, most any major panel on a unibody car is structural. On modern cars, even the glass is structural and must be installed with the correct urethane adhesive.
To answer the question, you would have to go to a store that sells paint and autobody supplies. Autozone, Advance and those types of places don't carry much of anything for bodyshops.
Just one more point I'd like to mention. Be prepared to spend a little dough. The small size tubes are around 15 bucks and the larger are more like 30. There are two different guns needed to despense the material for the two sizes. I forget the prices on the guns. They had a promotional deal & I got the small one free with a purchase of $90 worth of adhesive.
Englishcarlover Wrote:
I'm with Derek on this one (I work in the product liability business)! You will probably find that any "structural" adhesive has to be applied, and cured, under very controlled circumstances that are well out of reach for the average consumer. The bonding that is done on airplanes, for example, often requires a vacuum oven!
I actually have samples of bonded door skins on my office bookshelf! These are from LandRovers where they bond the aluminum skin to the steel door frame. They use this method to prevent an electrical connection (and subsequent galvanic corrosion) between the panel and the frame. HOWEVER, most of the mechanical strength is achieved by folding the edge of the skin over the frame, with the bonding agent in between.
You are right. There are disclaimers on everything you buy these days, along with the made in China sticker.
Not to offend any Lotus owners that may be on here but from what I have read, they have a reputation for building very light cars. Sometimes to the point of sacrificeing strength. Someone once said that Colin Chapman kept removeing pieces until the car fell apart, then went back one step.
if your welding skills are like mine (none) why not use fusor and when you're through install a very generous supply of very small bolts, nuts and lockwashers. the size that holds the rear view rod? to the dash could be right. i'm sure now the purists will come after me like a rat on cheese.
Larry,
I am with Jim and the others above for bypassing the Fusor adhesive. A simple alternative that most of us can do with a little practice is the plug weld and its strength is at least equal to that of a spot weld, the very type used to build our cars. I used a small Miller shop wire-feed MIG welder with coated wire, and you can rent them if you don't want to buy one. I forget now which wire I used, but a good welding supply can suggest a good one for your purpose.
Plug welds are made simply by bringing all the panels to be connected together in proper position, clamping them in that position securely, and then drilling an 1/8" hole thru all the panels to be welded. With the MIG welder, the weld is started from the panel furthest from you and the welding wire "pulled out" towards you to fill and weld the hole all the way out to the panel surface nearest you. With some practice on some scrap, you can master this type of weld fairly easily. And if you want to speed your welding along, you can spot rivet a run along the seam with pop rivets to hold the panels together, drilling them out and plug welding up their holes as you go along. Space your welds similarly to the original spacings and you should get similar strength to what the factory got.
Plug welds have an advantage in that they are usually able to be completed quickly and present less opportunity for panel distortion, since the heat is present only briefly. When I did my GT's rocker assemblies and other patch panels years ago, I was able to do all my panel welding in one afternoon, taking about 2.5 hrs to do something like 650 plug welds. Doing your floor pans should take somewhat less, just plan your process step by step and it should go smoothly. You can get an decent welding mask welding gloves from Harbor Freight and be sure you use them.
gooser Wrote:
I am convinced. She shall be welded.
Actually, I think welding will also probably cost less than the Fusor adhesive/process.
...and I just found out that my neighbor...two houses away...has a welding shop in his Garage! Hot Dang!!
Folks on this forum don't always agree, but the opinions, information, etc., that is offered is ALWAYS valuable and useful.
So, thanks again.
I used steel poprivets then a torch to melt them flat. looks like spot welds.
Gil,
An interesting idea. Once fused into one metallic mass I suppose they could be as strong as any other method and similar to a plug weld. Only qualm I would have would be whether the steel used in the pop rivets would be as strong as the welding wire? Could be. I used a few large steel pop rivets in my resto and they seem to be very strong and have lasted almost a couple of decades. You may have a simple fix for a lot of people.
I dunno - the parts held together by pop rivets are not supposed to be loaded in tension, only in shear. Pop rivets do work well - in avaiation applications it has been shown that they hold two sheets of metal together as well as a solid rivet. HOWEVER - the strength is in the clamping load they put between the two pieces being joined. If you then heat the rivet, that clamping load will be relieved, and the rivet is pretty much useless.
underdog Wrote:
When welding, I only used pop rivets to hold the work together while welding. As I went along, I drilled these "locators/clamps" out when I got to them and plug welded their holes.
In rummaging a local industrial supply, I was amazed at the variety of pop rivets available which come in many types not typically found in the local hardware store. Stainless, steel, broad head, tiny head, specialized aircraft types, etc. The few large broad head steel rivets I used (where welding was not an option) were truly strong and a real PITA to set, requiring more than a hand leverage tool could deal with. I had to borrow a power pop rivet gun from a club member.
When I worked at McDonnell-Douglas (back in the 70s) they had some in the shops that seemed pretty specialized to me. Just checking out this site should give an idea of the variety out there: http://www.hansonrivet.com/