State Def of Historic Vehicle?????

Help!!! The state of Maryland is changing the definition of and how a historic vehicle can be used/driven, etc.
Can you all send me how your states/provinces describe a historic vehicle and how they limit it's use. This is the current regulation -
“To be registered as a historic vehicle (class L), your vehicle must be 20 calendar years old or older and must not have been substantially altered, remodeled or remanufactured.
A historic registered vehicle cannot be used for general daily transportation, or primarily for the transportation of passengers or property on highways. It can only be used in exhibitions, club activities, parades, tours, occasional transportation and similar uses. A motor home, tow truck, or trailer does not qualify for historic registration.
If your historic vehicle is 60 years old or older, you may obtain a permanent, non-transferable registration for a one-time fee.”

1 - They want to change 20 yrs to 25 - we are ok with that.
2 - Remove "ocassional transportation and use" and limit to visits to repair shops and Sat/Sun club sponsored events only.
3 - All must have Classic car insurance.

They dropped the age to 20 years or older a few years ago, and now junkers and rust buckets are on the roads with Historic tags. Today I saw a 4 wheel truck with Historic tags, it had a landscapers sign on the side.
Can you guys/gals send me links to your state/prov mva so I can get the wording of your regulations.

Here is Oregon
OREGON

So Spencer, does that mean antique Oregon cars have no limits on driving?

Northern Nevada

Its not really requirements. More to do with emissions than anything else.

Aha, spoke too soon. "Vehicles registered with Classic Vehicle, Classic Rod or Old Timer license plates and driven 5,000 miles or less per year are exempt from emissions testing."

Florida as of 6 years ago. Not sure how current it is.

http://www.thevillagesvintagecarclub.org/how_to_register_your_vintage_car.htm

Don, I can't find a link to an official summary of restrictions in Texas, but there are two levels of registration:

.- Antique - more than 25 years old, exempt from inspections, can only be driven in parades, public displays and such, or to and from maintenance. Must carry liability insurance. Registration good for 5 years.

.- Classic - more than 25 years old with no restrictions on use, but must be inspected annually and insured like any other car.

In your case if there's a way to lobby, the 25 years doesn't matter, but try to keep the "Occasional transportation and use" in effect. In these days of gasoline mixed with ehtanol, letting these little cars sit for extended periods is harmful. They do need to be taken out to keep the ethanol from attacking the soft items in the fuel lines, carbs, and engine.

I take mine out every week or two and have had no problems, but if stopped I'm ready to use the "I just performed maintenance and this is a check ride" line.

BobbyG

Yet another reason to never move back to Maryland.

Here is virginia. 25 years occasional use limited to 250 miles.

http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/vehicles/antique.asp

Gavin

Don, In Colorado, and many other states, 1975 and older vehicles qualify for collector plates that you buy every 5 years and the car is emissions exempt. I'm not sure that there are restrictions on use in Colorado. For my own info I am going to check and see if there are any restrictions.

I beleive most if not all of the states have a DMV website that you can access via Google and get the information you want.

Thanks for posts. Some good info will be shared.
I have looked at state mva sites, the problem is navigating to find the correct term, classic, collector, historic, etc.
We are trying to lobby for a spot on the hearing panel, we need to keep ocassional use in the regulation or get the bill killed.

Illinois -
"Antique Vehicle License Plates are issued for a five year registration period expiring Dec. 31, 2014. To qualify for Antique Plates, motor vehicles, including motorcycles, must be more than 25 years old. Firefighting vehicles must be at least 20 years old.

Vehicles displaying these plates may only be driven to and from an antique auto show or exhibition, service station or demonstration. The mechanical and physical condition of the vehicle, including brakes, lights, glass and appearance, must be the same or as safe as originally equipped. An antique vehicle may be a "bona fide replica" - an exact copy of the original in design, frame and mechanical operation. "Facsimiles" - close, but not exact, reproductions of the original - do not qualify for Antique Vehicle plates.

Historical License Plates, representing the model year, may be displayed on an antique vehicle, provided the owner has valid, current Antique Vehicle Plates. Plates and registration must be kept in the vehicle at all times."

CA is similar to that. Which just made me wonder "why would I register it that way?" It's still voluntary to register it historically no? So you just have to weight the benefits.

Here is Washington
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.18.255

Is it abused? That is a matter of opinion.

Cheaters with beaters taking advantage of classic car collector plates
http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/cheaters-beaters-taking-advantage-classic-car-coll/nHWXr/

Phew! Thank goodness for the UK regs.

Any vehicle built before Jan 1st 1973 is condisered an historic vehicle and is exempt from road tax. It still has to have the annual MOT, and as long as it passes and has insurance, which is cheap, there are no restrictions on use.

Mine is my daily driver and I use it for my business.

In Germany, historic cars must be 30 or more years old and in original appearance throughout, except of the choice of colours and modern style radios.
For getting a historic cars plate, the cars have to be checked by a specialized authority and must proof to be perfect, good or good with signs of age.
Safety checks have to be made every 24 month as well as emission gas checks for cars that have been registrated first after June 30th. 1968.
There is a special tax class for historic vehicles and the car's insurance is not that expensive as for younger cars but des not cover racing or track day use.
There are no limits to use historic cars in any way.

Ralph

Thanks again for all the input/info! Good stuff from all!
I think the only reason we reg "Historic" is the panache of the term.
Any car prior to 1977 is emissions exempt, that excludes a lot of us.
The inspection is just on the initial registration of the car, so that is a one time deal.
I think we avoid the state inspection because of the "keep your greasy hands off my car" mentality of us Brit car owners and who has the tech experience to check our cars? The guys at the corner station don't and the big chain guys don't either, Pep Boys, AutoZone, etc. The state does not do inspections so the littel guys would have to aquire the knowledge of our cars and special tools on their own if we went that route. Today we met with a State senator who supports our cause and will work to get the 'Ocassional use" phasing back in the bill. I have reached out to other clubs to gain their support so we can present a united front.
The real issue is enforcement of the current law. Yesterday I drove behind a landscapers truck with historic tags, he had his company logo on both doors. The truck was a junker! I do not believe it is illegals who got us into this, it's the folks who buy a 1991 vehicle for $500, cheap transportation, a throw away, it requires no inspection or emissions check if reg historic. If the police do not bother them they are safe to do this for every car they buy. These are the folks who we need to get off the road.

I think, after reading through the responses, that what should have been a clear black and white decision, is very gray. Good luck.

Louisiana, no mileage limits mentioned, just 25 years of age and restored to stock condition. I've had antique plates on my 78 for a few years now

http://dpsweb.dps.louisiana.gov/omv1.nsf/58c968bd569b099986256cdc000806eb/963c5d45c2667484862564af00634ef0?OpenDocument

In Mississippi any vehicle 25 years or older may be tagged as an antique. One lifetime tag fee for the owner-vehicle, seems like its $25. No other limitations.

Ohio...

http://bmv.ohio.gov/sp_historical.stm

In NSW Australia, cars on Historic Plates must be 30 years or more old. They are allowed to have seat belts fitted if they weren't originally but very little else. They can be driven to any motor club sponsored event, to a repair or maintenance shop but you need to have made a booking. There doesn't appear to be any limit on mileage. It is very cheap in comparison to normal registration, about $50 I think.

Here is a link to our club's Historic Registration requirements.

http://www.motoringenthusiasts.com.au/historic.htm

"Antique Auto - This plate is available to any individual submitting the Certification for Antique Registration form, certifying the motor vehicle is an antique. The vehicle must be 25 years old with a non-modified engine and body. An antique motor vehicle can be a passenger vehicle or a motorcycle; however, the fee is the same for both. An antique plate may not be transferred from one vehicle to another. If the motor vehicle owner to whom an antique license has been issued sells the vehicle, purchases another antique vehicle and wishes to retain the same plate, he may do so by paying the full fee. A motor vehicle registered as an antique solely as a collector's item can only be used for participation in club activities, exhibits, tours, parades and similar uses; and which may be used for general transportation only on Saturday and Sunday. The annual fee for this plate is $27.75 and it can not be personalized."

Interestingly enough, the annual fee for a 'normal' vehicle in only $21.50, including motor-homes of ANY weight !!!

Missouri: (cut and paste)

There are three kinds of historic vehicle registrations:
Historic license plates;
Personalized Historic license plates; and
Year of Manufacture license plates.

To qualify for historic vehicle registration, a vehicle (passenger vehicle, truck, or motorcycle) must be 25 years old or older, owned solely as a collector’s item, and used for exhibition and educational purposes.
A vehicle registered as a historic vehicle may be driven:
To and from exhibitions and educational events without any mileage limitation;
To repair facilities within a 100 mile limit; and
Up to 1,000 miles per year for personal use.

The owner is responsible for keeping a log of the miles driven for personal use each calendar year. The log must be kept in the vehicle when the vehicle is being driven on any state road.
Historic vehicle registration is a permanent registration and cannot be transferred. If you sell or dispose of the vehicle, you must return the plates to the Missouri Department of Revenue.
You may apply for historic vehicle registration by mail or in person at the Central Office in Jefferson City.
NOTE: If the vehicle is not titled in your name, you must complete, sign, and submit an Application for Missouri Title and License (Form 108) with the properly assigned title. The titling fees include an $8.50 title fee, 4.225% state sales/use tax, local taxes (if applicable), $2.50 processing fee, and any title penalty due if application for title is not made within 30 days from the date of purchase. Check our online Sales Tax Calculator to estimate your taxes.

the lady at the license bureau talked me out of the plates and i'm glad she did...

Up here in CT, only stipulation is that the vehicle is 20 years old or older. No mileage restrictions. Taxes based on $500 base value, even if you're driving a million dollar Ferrari. No requirements for special insurance however, minimum liability insurance is required on all motor vehicles. No inspections, emissions or otherwise.

Just recently we defeated a similar bill with the assistance of SEMA and our CT Car Club Council. They wanted to bump the year from 20 to 30, the tax base to $2000 and require special registration and insurance.
By simply hammering our representatives and senators with letters, we were able to get the bill dropped. Although in our wonderful political climate, those who want it changed will continue to push for it every year, so defeating it once only gives a slight respite.

Something you might want to find out is weather the law applies to out of state vehicles.
EX: CT requires no fault liability insurance on ANY car driven in CT. If you're from NH, where insurance is optional and you drive into CT, technically, you are required to carry insurance on your car. Just as if you're driving across the US border, it is recommended that you notify your insurance company and have them set you up with additional insurance to cover you. Same as helmet laws, CT does NOT have a one, MA does so traveling to MA, you must bring a helmet and put it one once you cross the CT/MA border.

Good luck with the fight. Don't compromise, even if no one really cares about extending the year. You need to defeat the entire bill.
Talk soon,

Don,

Write to the sponsors of the bill and copy it to your local State Senator and Delegate. Also, there is a hearing on this bill on 2/28 in Annapolis; I am seriously thinking of going and presenting testimony. Here is what I wrote to them:

"Dear Delegate Reznik and co-sponsors,

I am writing to express my concern with the language included in the referenced House and Senate bills. I am an active collector and enjoyer of classic cars, in particular the classic British MG sports cars.

As someone who restores and maintains my classic cars to a high level, I share your concern with those who appear to be using Maryland Historic licenses simply as a way to avoid safety and emissions inspections on their daily drivers. For instance, on my daily commute I frequently see a 1980's vintage Mercedes Benz, belching clouds of smoke, being driven as a daily commuter on Historic plates. I also regularly see an early 1980's Chevy Caprice, in very poor condition, parked in the commuter lot at the Edgewood MARC station, again displaying Maryland Historic plates.

However, certain aspects of the proposed legislation cause me concern. The first is the requirement for historic vehicle insurance. My current insurer, State Farm, offers a considerable discount for "bundling" all of my insurance including homeowners and automobile coverage. This is also required for me to get an "umbrella" liability policy that I currently carry. For that reason, I have my collector cars covered under the same policy as our daily drivers. If I were forced to purchase separate collector car policies for my two MGs, I will be forced to either pay twice for double coverage or to forgo the discount I currently receive for having all of my insurance with one carrier.

Secondly, the "occasional use" language is problematic since it is so open to interpretation. In good weather, I occasionally like to drive one of my MGs to work or on weekend errands or pleasure drives. It is true that with these cars, the more you drive them the better they run and the more reliable they remain. The proposed legislation is very unclear as to whether this would still be legal. Similarly, I enjoy driving these cars to shows, in road rallies, and to regular club events. Again, there is a question as to whether these activities would be permitted under the proposed legislation.

Neither of my cars is driven more than one or two thousand miles a year and generally they are driven less than that. The resulting contribution to air pollution or wear and tear on public roads is negligible, especially as my cars are very well maintained and return nearly 30 mpg in regular driving conditions.

I respectfully suggest that better enforcement of the existing laws regarding Maryland historic vehicles, in an effort to stop the illicit use of Historic plates to circumvent safety and emission laws for regular commuter vehicles, may be all that is needed to address the current concerns, rather than new or revised legislation.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions or would like additional information. Thank you in advance for your careful consideration of my recommendations.

Very respectfully,


John F. Long, Jr.


Member, MGs of Baltimore Ltd.
Member, North American MGB Register"

We have been in touch with Reznik the driver behind this bill, not much movement. We are in the process of enlisting delegates and our senator on the defeating the bill. Letters are going out tomorrow to all the Frederick county delegates stating our opposition to the changes in the bill. The issue is enforcing the existing bill not rewriting the existing bill. As you stated the real problem is the junkers on the road, remove them and this goes away. I really think the bottom line is collecting more fees, get all the junkers to pay for inspections and emissions checks and revenues go up. Also as you pointed out the new ligislation has loop holes. We could make anything we do a club sponsored event, short of driving to work. Me to Officer - "I was going to coffee on Saturday and unfortunately I was the only one there, that is not my problem". Or do we carry a note on club letterhead everywhere we go??? We are putting together a group to down and state our case at the hearing.

I would encourage all enthusiasts of older LBCs to take a look at this site: http://www.historicvehicle.org/ The HVA is an organization backed by Hagerty Classic Insurance (among others) that is intended to specifically deal with legislative issues surrounding our hobby. That is not all that the HVA does, but it is one of their primary missions.

Here you go: Pennsylvania's stance on antique/classic plates.

In PA, 'classic' is defined as 15 years, and 'antique' is 25. It's not mentioned on that sheet, but you have to have 4 photos (one each side) of the vehicle being registere. The state once hit people up with a mileage limit of 3,000 (classic) or 1,500 (antique), but since neither plate expires, there's no way that they can ding you for being over the 'limit.' Also, if you have classic tags, you still have to get a safety inspection; antique plates do not require this. Some counties also make you get an emissions test (if your car is later than '74 I believe) as well.

Here's Kentucky. http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/186-00/043.PDF

I have never messed with this when I lived in AK, OR, or NC. I have always registered as a "regular" car, daily driver - with PI-PD-UI insurance. Too restrictive.

James,
Where did you get the upholstry???? That is classic!
TY on info.
Don

North Carolina states the following -"Inspection
Antique and custom-built vehicles presented for first-time titling and registration in North Carolina must be examined and photographed by a local NC Division of Motor Vehicles inspector.
The report confirms the vehicle is equipped for road use and meets all DOT safety standards.
What is an Antique Vehicle?
A motor vehicle at least 35 years old (measured from the date of manufacture)
Step 2, Inspections
There are two parts to your vehicle's inspection.
Vehicle Safety Inspection
The vehicle inspection can be performed at any of the 7,500 licensed inspection stations throughout the state.
Exemptions, the following vehicle types do not need a Safety Inspection:
Vehicles 35 years old, or older
On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) Emissions Inspection
North Carolina is fighting ozone-forming emissions from gasoline-operated cars and light duty trucks. Inspections are conducted using the vehicle’s On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system, computerized equipment installed on all new vehicles since 1996.
Exemptions, the following vehicle types do not need an OBD Emissions Inspection:
Vehicles 35 years old, or older"

So, after the initial road use and DOT standard inspection when first registered in the state, no further inspections are required on vehicles older than 35 YOA. It does not have any further limitiations on use, but the 35 years is higher than most states in the Union.

TJ

Massachusetts... PAN plate (regular registration)

Why deal with the restrictions?
No emissions on a car this old.
Safety inspection annually.

Might be worth mentioning how current or proposed legislation would effect special events like British Car Week (May 26 - June 3)

If I drive my GT to work for one week out of the year does that mean I'm using as primary transportation?

For anyone in Michigan, I found the following [url=http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/Letter_2011_07_18_359268_7.pdf]link[/url] at the Secretary of State site relating specifically to the interpretation of "historical" vehicle use.

In addition to the usual "club activities, exhibitions, tours, parades, and similar uses" this clarification also includes "mechanical testing". Someone I met at a car show suggested always carrying a tool bag with you (don't we all?) to confirm that you were only doing some "mechanical testing". However, I am always concerned about operating within the grey area of the law. A couple of years ago I tried to stay within the strict definition of the law and mainly attended a lot of car shows and cruise-ins to fulfil my MG driving needs. What I found is that it's much more fun driving the MG than sitting behind it in a lawn chair!

The alternative of a standard registration with classic car insurance is much less restrictive. Just go back to paying an annual registration fee and somewhat higher insurance premium (non-historic). Still can't be a daily driver and must be garaged, but that would be fine for me.

I submit that most of my comments may not be relevant outside of Michigan.

No annual inspection in KY.