The dilema

My original 1800 MG engine is getting to the point where it needs to be rebuilt and I am tossing up the merit of doing a V6 conversion, would love to have the more modern engine, smooth running and reliability etc. Been doing some reading and the 60 V6 seems to be the engine of choice either the FWD abd convert to RWD or a RWD drive. Either one mated to a T5 speed transmission.

If I go this route I will have an old tired engine to sell and an overdirve to sell to offset some of the cost, likely the engine wont be worth much and I am not sure what the overdrive is worth.

From a cost perspective is it similar to doing a rebuild on the xisting engine alsi if I go the V6 route is it berst to go with crate engine or to keep cost down try to find a used engine?

Paul,

There are lots of GM V6 engines and trannies on the market - that 60* V6 was used in lots of models. A number of guys doing conversions purchase an entire car, like a Camaro. Then they can use the computer and all the original electronics, parts, etc to complete a conversion. You can also talk to Brian BMC or Bill Guzman on this foruma as they will not only answer your questions but they also manufacture parts/kits for the GM V6 swap. Good luck with your conversion!

Brad

If you are thinking of the V8 swap PM Simon Austin in Surry B.C.,He has done it and is very helpful, great guy. There are a few V6 guys in the Vancouver area. Dave

This is a common question, and there seem to be people who go at it from two different perspectives:

1. It's out of the car now, I want the best for my MG, and a rebuild must be done to ensure no "surprises." This seems to be the most common point of view.

2. I found a running car with 200,000km or under, and these engines are known to run for 300,000km or more before they even start to burn oil. Why would I risk screwing something up by rebuilding a perfectly good runner, especially knowing that my MG will not put on another 100,000km before 2050??

So... how many miles are on the engine you find? I think a rebuild "just 'cause" is silly - I'm sure we've all heard the stories of "the guy who forgot to torque the big end nuts", or "the guy who fires it up with the cam timing two teeth off," or whatever. THese problems don't happen if you simply install a running engine. You want to avoid surprises? Take a running engine, install it, and guess what - it will still run!

How many miles are on the modern cars you own now? Are you finding that, at, say, 200,000kms on your Honda/Toyota/GM/Ford/Chrysler whatever, you are adding a quart of oil every tank and hoping that rattling sound is the change in the cupholders rather than major engine bearings? (I doubt it!) Modern engines run forever with modern oil and modern engine management systems. I'd say, go for a nice GM 3500, don't rebuild it, and love every aspect of your new car!!

I like Duncan's reply. Although, I had the engine refreshed, and that was in 2003. I have not had one problem with it. It was from a running car with 160K miles on it. I think it also depends on how much you want to spend. You will always see top shelf installs and then you will see what looks like a low budget install. Both are running and in good order, it just comes down to your prefrence. Even a low budget install can be made to look like a top shelf.
Ken

I went with a crate motor for 2k and pieced all the bits myself. I personally have had bad luck with used motors, not the 60 V6 but many others.
I sold my OD trans for 500 plus shipping, and the 1800 with 60k original miles for 400. I'm sure I could have gotten a little more but I was happy with that.

All the advice from these guys that posted, also Bill Guzman and Brian at BMC is invaluable. So keep reading up on everything. I say go with a crate motor from GM with a warranty. For 2k minus what you sell your motor/trans for that's not bad. Get the spreadsheet with all parts needed from Bill Guzman. Do you know if you want fuel injection or carb yet?

Seems the 3500 engine is easily obtainable for VERY low money, lots of guys picking them up with 50-60k miles for $300 or less. Just old enough to be common in salvage yards, yet new enough there's not much call for replacements yet. Even with the cost of a comprehensive kit, that makes it (about) on par cost-wise to a proper rebuild of the original lump. Overdrives always are sellable to recoup some cost, so it's a win-win if you want more power and better driveability, better gas mileage etc.

Paul, any FWD engine from a 3100 will out perform, hands down, any Camaro/Firebird 2.8, 3.1, or 3.4 in power and mileage. They rev very quickly and have a unique sound much different then the Camaro/Firebird variety. The amazing 3500 FWD engines can be bought for less then $300 in a lot of cases because the breaker yards know that can't sell these engines for years because the newer GM cars will go 200,000 miles or more. This is the preferred engine because they usually have less then 10,000 miles on them. The owner of a GM car won't put in a newer engine because they will buy a new car first. Buy a 3500 at a low price and it will be very competitive to any conversion kit available. Somehow people have the idea that it is more expensive which isn't at all true. A new 3.4 will cost upward toward $2000 and a full overhaul about the same. Outside the basic cost of an engine the conversion cost is the same for either FWD or RWD. The biggest expense you will have is the transmission and that would be your choice should you want a new one or used one. Choosing new technology will put you years ahead of the outdated RWD engines also.

Dann BCC

Not sure if I will go fuel injection or carb route, still in the checking things out stage.
If I understand it I will need to do more work and re jig the fuel tank etc to use fuel injection, not sure I want to go there so may be looking at carb option however I will see after I check out whats involved in fuel injection mods.

Paul,

I can't help with the V6 but I can with a Rover V8 if you go that route. Certainly lots of info out there regarding the V6 swaps and plenty of knowledgeable folks to help.

Dave, thanks for the kind words. I help out when I can.

You two will have to talk if Paul does decide to sell his overdrive.

I don't want an overdrive, I wants me a V6 FI 5 speed modern MG'n machine.

Gary, I think Dann is comparing the cost of his new Economy kit. Also a low mileage junkyard 3500 compared to new RWD 3.4 Crate motor or rebuilding a high mileage RWD 3.4.

Gary, we have a new conversion kit now that doesn't require the CNC products. We did this because we can and these products have not been placed on our web site as of yet because of the recent move into another building. We do more then simple conversions, we have several items on the market for various cars and other vehicles. We pioneered the use of the 60V6 in the MGB and other cars way back in 1992, before anyone else and it is documented by the owner of the first car. We have been busy with that and other products for that time and to the present. Our technical knowledge about the FWD engine surpasses anyone else's in this line of engineering except GM themselves and we are always in close contact with engineering there. I worked for GM in a very unique position that gave me all the support I needed for this type of business. Our customers need not ask constantly about why their products are failing or any other subject along that line. We produce the absolute finest products in existence and no way can anyone debate that subject. We engineer for permanence and quality, not hit and skip engineering. Our motor mount kit is priced exactly in line with the other conversion vendor. You don't hear much about us because when we finish a car it's done and ready for a trouble free life. You have never read or heard a single thing negative about our products except pricing and this is because those who are concerned with cost are usually low budget conversioneers that want something cheap so they build cheap. We do not need the forum to survive but we contribute technical information as an aid to all those interested. I had been in a state of poor health for awhile which may have affected your recognition of our company. I joined this forum permanently a few years back and my ideas and suggestions have always been met with praise and certainty. I don't recognize your name because of this state of health I suppose. When did you join and become a member? There has been a certain amount of adversity planted here by various fans of the "other vendor' in the past but I pay no attention to this because I mind my business and my conversion business. No business of this kind will make a person rich unless it is with the respect and friendship you receive by being in this position. Maybe some of my customers might comment to this fact if they read this posting.

Dann BCC

Ahhh... that may be what I'm missing. I didn't see the "economy" kit listed on his site, just the 3 I mentioned. I already purchased a camaro with a crate engine so I don't see myself going to a 3x00 engine this late in the game. Besides, I live in CA and finding a low mileage 3500 for 3-500 are pretty slim.

Paul, the Malibu has the engine from 2005 and up Some other small vans have them too. If you need to know more I'll get the scoop directly from Marc. They are very plentiful in all areas because they wreck just like any other car. Hope this helps.

Dann

Gary, actually this is very popular engine that comes in various GM cars like the Malibu. Living in California at one time makes me want to believe there is a lot of salvage yards there because of the way drivers handle the traffic.

DKW BCC

I think you meant me. Oh I'm sure I could find it, just not at those prices. Using the 05 malibu as an example, the cheapest engine under 100k (75k) would be ~$700. That doesn't cover the core charge nor the fact that it's JUST a longblock, no accessories.
I bought my donor camaro for $750. The kid I bought it from had put a crate motor in, went to college then came back and drove it 3k miles. It wouldn't start and his dad told him to sell it to pay off some of his speeding tickets. Turns out it was just a broken flywheel. I should be able to sell the body for almost what I paid for the whole car.

Paul,
I see you made it out to Nanaimo safely! Drive the B out there or trailer it? BTW, there's a Buick V6 in the buy/sell/trade section. Fellow is going to use a rotary on his conversion. Not sure if it's what you are looking for. Anyway, all the best with your project.
Paul

David, well stated. If you need any help just ask.

Dann BCC

I looked into the options for a engine swap for over a year. Well that does not include the 5-10yrs I pondered what it would be like not be smoked by Soccer Moms in their SUV's.

I wanted to do a Ford 302 conversion at first. The body modifications (at the time, new kits out now) required along with the price of gas got me looking at the V6 options. I did not want to spend all this money and time, only to think about whether I could afford to fill up the tank.

What you go with depends on:

1 What you want to end up with
2 Your Took and more importantly your skill set
3 Timeline
4 Budget

You will have to decide which order of importance that list for your conversion.

Once I decided on the GM 60V6, then came which version? The big choice is RWD or FWD. They both come in a variety of sizes.

In my situation I have a friend with a junkyard and get whatever he has available. This lead me to look more at the 3.4 RWD which he had two of. The power/TQ range of the engines are close but there are differences. The two 3.4l motors had 120-150k miles on them.

Number one on my list was I wanted more then a 10:1 weight to power ratio. The 3.4 RWD has 160 hp 200tq. The FWD 3400 has about 190hp 205tq. Hardly a deciding factor. The other option was the 3500 FWD that had about 217hp 225tq, getting more into the range I wanted.

The next item on my list was what additional power gains could be had once I got use to a car with power. Which engine could I squeeze more fun out of with the littlest investment, isn't this the reason most of us do a engine swap? Doing research on 60degreeV6.com I was looking into what these engines could develop.

When more power is wanted from the RWD 3.4l swapping out the top end for a 3500 was the common choice. WOT-TECH has a kit for this (ported n polished) for $1500. Well adding that to the RWD kit put me into the range of the 3500 FWD Kit. If I was gonna put a 3500 top end on why not start with the complete 3500! Argh wish there were fewer choices!

I also noticed a lot of the FWD guys on the 60degreeV6 site were swapping out 3400 for the 3500. It could not be only for the additional displacement! So I called Marc at BCC

This is when I found out about the economy kit! Yea! I found a 04 Malibu 3500 with only 3,700 miles on it! Basically a crate motor for only $640! The items needed to convert to a RWD a minimal about $600, mainly new Throttlebody (or use a 3400 UIM n TB) and crank trigger.

One thing is that there is NO carb manifold for the 3500! You will need to go EFI, but this was one item I wanted. When most people think of reliability, what they truly mean is Less maintenance! IMHO this can not be done without EFI.

Have not decided on which way I will go with the EFI, external pump, Modified MGB tank w. internal pump or the 18 gal tank. Will check budget when it gets to that point.

Hope this helps, hard to put a years worth of research in one post. Keep us informed on what you decide!