Any easy way to check clutch?

I suspect that my clutch assembly (pressure plate, disk and/or throwout bearing) has given up the ghost. Is there an easy way to inspect it without removing the powertrain?

From the several I have experienced.

A worn out clutch usually shows up on acceleration. In 3rd you accelerate normally then hammer it at 4000 rpm. If the clutch is worn out the motor will accelerate without the car moving faster. Clutch slipping will make sense to you if it happens.

Throwout bearings are noisy when you engage the clutch partially there is a grumbling sound. Often quieting after the clutch is out in the early stages.

Difficulty shifting i.e. gear noise is typically Hydraulic issues.

You assume a diagnosis without describing the symptoms. What are the symptoms?
If the clutch is worn out, the behavior is like above. It could, in a few cases with these sort of symptoms,, be a faulty
clutch slave, master, or the line in between.

At a standstill with the motor off, I can run the tranny through the gears with no bind or issue. When I depress the clutch pedal, it feels hard, almost binding as it goes to the floor. The master and slave are both functioning ( I had my wife press it in and out as I checked at the slave). The motor will start normally without depressing the clutch and the trans in neutral. As soon as I press the clutch with the motor running I get a grinding noise and the motor bogs down. If I try and start the car with the clutch depressed, it won't turn over or does so slowly.

This is a guess, but it sounds like something bad happened to the throwout setup or some peculiar jamming of the actuator rod or the fingers on the pressure plate collapsed.

Time to pull it. After nightmares with clutches for the last year something is wrong and it cannot be fixed without pulling it.

If it helps the last pull the mechanic didn't pull the trans. A lot less work. A little tricky lining it up but doable. I agree with Scot's diagnosis.

Scot. How's the weather back home?

Sounds like what I experienced. Something broke off and wedged in were it doesn't belong. I removed the engine and left the transmision in place.


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DW

The quickie check is to find a hill you'd normally climb in 2nd and start up the hill and shift to 4th. Once the clutch is out, if the disk is bad, you'll hear the engine rev up and then come back to a lugging rpm as the disk finally grabs. Best of luck. Basil

Its a bad throw-out bearing.

Anytime you hear grinding, while stepping on the clutch, that's what it is.

Oh, and I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with the suggestion of leaving the transmission in the car and only removing the engine. THIS IS A NO-NO.

Lets think about what time we're saving here, by NOT removing the trans along with the engine, these extra things need to be removed, the shifter, the 4 bolts holding the U-Joint flange to the rear of the trans, the 4 bolts holding the trans crossember to the car, and once these are removed, the 4 bolts holding the trans mounts to the trans, and, of course, a wire.

Now, those extra these will only take a few minutes.

But, what you save by doing this is you don't have to try to reach all the bolts holding the trans/engine together, and upon re-assembly, you don't have to put them back in, and you don't have to try and mate the engine/trans input shaft and clutch disc splines together.

I won't call this task "impossible" - but, darn near. Unless you get extremely lucky, and those 30 or so slines mate exactly right, you're in for a few hours of "fun"

Plus, you don't run the risk of messing anything up, and, of course, nothing gets scratched or broken. Trying to finagle 300lb lump of iron onto a "moving" (because the front of the trans is hard to keep stationary) 70 lb. transmission is not easy, and there's NO room for error.

Mating these two on the shop floor, and having easy access to the mating bolts, and then slipping them into the car as a pair will save time, money many times, busted/smashed fingers & knuckles, and your son and daughter won't get the primer of four letter words.

I've done it both ways, and removing and installing as a pair is fair easier, and far less stressful. Mating the trans/engine on the shop floor is very, very easy, and there's no risk of messing up that newly painted engine bay OR engine itself.

As an answer to your "original" question of "how to inspect" - Well Don, YOU have actually already done the inspection - The stepping on the clutch and hearing a grinding noise is proof positive.

But, I will say this . . . . If this noise JUST started, you could probably drive the car for another 6 mos. everyday before it fails completely. I know the noise and feeling are terrible, but, you'll be replacing ALL of the parts anyway, and you're doing no extra harm to the car, so, if you don't wanna do the repair right now, then just drive!!!!

B

Thanks guys for the input. Looks like it's going to be a long cold winter in the garage for me.

Pull eng and trans as a unit.
A sat morning job with my daughters help..
This included going back to parts store as the driven plate had a real bad spline broached
in it.. Check that it slips freely on trans input shaft ,,no roughness.

I have a question of my own that I would hope will preclude my clutch getting to the point of the originator of this subject.

I seem to have to replace my clutch fluid about once a month on my '75 "B". I can't seem to determine where the leak is. I constantly see damp or even wet spots under the motor and though the liquid is clear, it tastes like motor oil (I recently changed the motor oil...).

Can somebody suggest a remedy for the monthly refill of clutch fluid?

Thanks in advance for you anticpated response(s)

Sean

"Can somebody suggest a remedy for the monthly refill of clutch fluid? "

Find and fix the leak, it has to be leaking somewhere. It can leak on the from the master cylinder through
the pedal box to the floor, at the slave cylinder or the pipes and flex hose. You shouldn't have to top up a
properly working hydraulic system until the clutch wears.

FWIW, I would never pull the transmission with the engine unless the transmission needs work. Mechanics
that work on those cars for pay do it that way.

Clifton

OK, first to answer the original question that was asked...No.

Now I'll bite on the engine pull debate. I've done it both ways and will side with Brian. Maybe if you have one of those engine tilters and things go just right. When I tried it I spent a lot of frustrating time getting everything to line up. I'd rather do it on the floor plus then I can zap most of the bolts with the air gun. BTW, I've done several of these for pay.;)

I don't quite agree the drive it part. Sounds like you got some serious metal to metal contact there and that won't get better. I'd be afraid of something genading and lodging where it could do damage. The nose of the starter is in there. Heck it could even crack the nose off the tranny if it twists the right way.

If the master was leaking, you would be getting hydralic fluid running down the clutch pedal and onto the floor. It is probally the slave, which can be rebuilt, assuming the bore is in good shape. Also, check the flex hose next to the starter running down to the slave. These have been known to develop small leaks over time. RAY

I've done the pull both ways and both work fine, not going to recommend one over the other.

I wouldn't be tasting my fluid leak, it could cause you problems. You should probably rebuild your clutch hydraulic system completely if your having to top it up all of the time.

As for the engine vs engine-transmission pull - I've done it both ways. I suspect that you can get good at doing it either way. But it is a lot easier to line up the engine with the transmission if they are both out of the car. Pulling both gives you the opportunity to inspect the transmission mounts and replace them if necessary. Whenever I pull the engine I now pull both as a unit.

I strongly recommend some sort of tilting apparatus on the engine lift - it really makes the job a breeze.

I've found the use of 2 come-alongs (one conncted to the front of the motor and one to a chain around the tranny- is much better than a tilt type of device ('load leveler'). The come-alongs can be used to change the tilt of the engine without moving the motor forward or backward. This makes the job much easier.

RAY 67 TOURER wrote:

If the master was leaking, you would be getting hydralic fluid running down the clutch pedal and onto the floor. It is probally the slave, which can be rebuilt, assuming the bore is in good shape. Also, check the flex hose next to the starter running down to the slave. These have been known to develop small leaks over time. RAY

Thank you for you tips Ray; I will check on this! I've seen pans made for leaks, but frankly I don't have room in The Red Baron to carry it and a passenger!:spinning:

Take a look in the driver footbox, at the top, where the pedals come through....If the paint is all peeled and yukky, and there is a lot of rust, the leak is around the master cylinder.....If it is, then either the pipe connections are loose, or the m/c is leaking from the seals.....If the clutch m/c is leaking, then you can rebuild it, and that's a good time to rebuild the slave as well....If you're not comfortable with rebuilding, then replacement is your only option.
If the slave seal is leaking, the dust boot will be full of gunk and fluid.
If the connection at the m/c is leaking, you should use a brake wrench, not a standard open-end wrench to tighten it.


Hello Mr Barry;

Thank you for your information and how/where to assess this issue.

I'm somewhat naive in some of the terminology you have used. Please explain what "the driver footbox" is... I'm thinking that you are describing the front lower area of the driver side of the cockpit; only because you mentioned the pedals... ?

Between yours and Ray 67 Tourer, I should able to assess both the master and the slave. Thank you!

Sorry to confuse you....It is the pedal area, where the driver's feet go....The pedals come through a rectangular hole in the body from the engine compartment....as the m/c leaks, it runs down onto the surface it is mounted on, and eventually works its way down into the top of the pedal area....(and yes, also down the pedal to the floor, but usually this is mixed with dirt in the carpet, and not readily noticed)....
To see this, get on the ground next to the car, with the door open, and take a flashlight and look under the dash, where the tops of the pedal arms are....If you see a lot of flaked paint and rust, it's caused by clutch /brake fluid...which eats paint like I eat cookies...quickly....it is also quite corrosive.
Hope this is more clear than mud.

Don,

If you have not made the modifications to the crossmember to assist with installing the
rear mounts (on the transmission) do a search on that topic, unless someone has the time here to post the link. It's easy to do and will save a lot's of frustration in getting the bolts in.

Bad release bearing and if it's grinding it's probabely taking the release bearing surface with it. To change it the engine has to come out so why not save yourself a lot of problems and change the hole works. While you're in there change the crack oil seal and the tranny input shaft seal. Since the Engine is out.... any other seals that might be old.

Thank you Mr Barry;

That is an excellent description. I am impressed by the excellent advice I see here. With out it, I would be completely at a loss and more depressed than my wallet! The Red Baron has champaign tastes and I can't afford a beer budget!

Thanks again!