brake master cylinder

Removed mc from car because it was leaking. rebuild or replace? What is the smart way to go. Looks like rebuilding is a chore. How do you get the circlip off?

John,
What year, makes a diffrerance.
Dave

IT"S A 74 MIDGET, NICE SHAPE

Was it leaking where the brake lines attach, at the cap/lid, or around the rubber boot/seal where the pedal push-rod goes in?

If the car is in overall good condition, not a lot of rust etc (indicates how it's been treated and stored), and the master cylinder was working OK, other than a leak, you can try rebuilding it. Otherwise I'd replace it.


I've had good luck rebuilding two of mine, without replacing the deep internals. Just cleaned everything, replaced the outside rubber boot. cleaned inside by spraying a cleaner in every orifice and making sure the piston slides freely.

May or may not work, but a rebuild kit is much cheaper than a new cylinder.

IT WAS LEAKING FROM THE FRONT AND DRIPPING INTO FOOT PEDAL AREA, VERY SLOWLY. WHAT DO YOU USE FOR A CLEANER? AND HOW WOULD DISMANTLE THE MC IF I DID NEED TO REPLACE INTERNALS.

THANKS

I have never disassembled the inside part, I think it requires a special tool to get at the circlip, not sure about that.

If it was leaking where the boot is, that indicated bad rubber seals somewhere. Internals will need to be replaced, or buy a rebuilt one.

Check with your local auto parts store. If they carry rebuilt items by Cardone then you should be able to get a rebuilt master cylinder at a very good price. I used one on my '73 and was very pleased, no problems at all. A new cylinder is over $225 from VB or Moss, so the rebuilt at under $50 if I remember correctly is a bargain. Same goes for the clutch master and 1500 slave cylinders. (Yes I know a '73 isn't a 1500)

BILL, MY PARTS STORE CAN ORDER IT, THEY REFER TO A POWER BRAKE SYSTEM. $48
THEY DO NOT SPECIFY MANUAL. IS THIS A CONCERN OR SHOULD I JUST HAVE THEM OREDER IT,

THANKS JOHN

I seem to remember that the listing was that way. Go ahead and order it, they should return it if it's not the right part.

Thanks for the info. Bill I didn't know you could do that.

Are these the same as original, or a different model that will work?

If you have the older style clutch master with the metal can these are no longer available as far as I know, you get a later type with a plastic resevoir. The master cylinders are the same, come without the resevoir, you have to reuse your old one.

I know so little that I hesitate to answer. I have had brake m/c probs off and on with my '70 Midget for decades. I'm the original owner, so I have some perspective over the years, but I don't think I know much. Anyway, in my limited experience, (A) bleed the brakes and then bleed them again. Your brakes will probably work.

On the other hand, (B) if the m/c is really dripping on your thighs, there are 3 plans: (1) is to get a towel for your thighs and a cheap replacement carpet for your floor, (2) is to get the $15 rebuild kit from, say, Moss Motors, and cross you fingers that the bore of the master is not scored or in some other way compromised, and then just do the rebuild anyway, even if it is scored, 'cause it will work better, or (3) order the new and expensive m/c kit.

There is a lot of stuff on SpriteSpot.com about brakes.

Basicly the circlip comes out with a basic pair of snap-ring pliers.... after that? takes a whole 15 minutes to rebuild........ if my memory serves me correctly...lol I've rebuilt loads of them......

michael

Alright - I'm in the middle of a MC rebuild for a '73 Midget. I have the MC off, drained and circlip removed. I can get the plunger out. I pushes in, but I can't pull it out with visegrips. I can see the white polyethylene washer, but it won't slide out. How do I do this.

Also, the plastic reservoir is cracked a bit from age. I can't seem to find a new one without buying the entire MC. I bought a new cap, but can I get the rest of the plastic part? Has anyone used a bit of fiberglass to shore these up? Any choices here?

I haven't tried in on the plastic resevoir, but I find that for most plastic repairs at my job a product called Plastic Welder by Devcon works great. It's a two part epoxy material that really bonds to plastics and is quite strong when cured. Takes about 10 minutes to fully cure up.
Brent, you'll probably have to make a special tool to assist you, a couple of pieces of steel rod bent to a "L" shape might help you hook the offending plastic washer.

Bill - thanks for the advice. With regards to the nylon washer; I can't get a tool behind it, I could probably try to destroy it to yank it out. I'm kind of confused that after removing the circlip inside the MC that the whole assembly doesn't slide out.

Also, once I get the MC done, I'll have gone through the entire brake system except for one hose that I just noticed. I replaced the rear and front brake flex hoses; the steel brake lines look fine. There's a flex hose near the brake line junction on the passenger side that goes to the brake line to the rear brakes. I couldn't locate the part in Moss or VB. Am I missing something?

While we're bearing our issues - here's another one - There's a small solinoid-looking thing on the driver's side on the firewall, engine side. It has ports for two vacuum hoses coming out of it and three wires. Its just under the battery ground wire. Any idea what this is?

extra brake line? or cluth hydraulics to slave cylinder?

Two little vacuum lines? or windsheild washer lines?

I once went through this with a friend and his B master cylinder which was very similar in design. That's the reason I now recommend just getting a rebuilt unit from your local auto parts store for under $50. By the time you buy the rebuild kit, perhaps a hone of the correct size, and suffer all the hassle of removing the snap ring and plastic washer it looks like a pretty good deal.
The rear flex line is located between the rear axle and the body. It's shown as item 21 in the VB catalog. http://www.victoriabritish.com/icatalog/sm/0108.asp
I belive that the item you mention on the firewall is the windshield washer pump.

Bill/Keith -

You're both spot on. Regarding the MC, I ordered the Cardone for $33. The scoop is I have $19 into a new cap, $13 for the rebuild kit and $11 for the circlip tool - $43 total. I'll try to return the new parts unopened, and keep the circlip tool. Great advice.

The solinoid-looking thing is indeed the washer pump - thanks again. I just moved to So. California and picked this car up in the desert - sitting for 10 years. There's not much need for windshield parts I suppose, because I have one missing wiper, no wiper motor, no washer reservior, and no tubes to the washer.

Incidently, I had a '58 Bugeye when I was a kid in New England, and every bolt was rusted, under carriage was also quite rusty, and was a bit torn from the weather in the northeast. This car from So. Cal, has no rust, every bolt I tried to remove came off without incident, including the break bleader scews - what a difference. I have a very long way to go, but I'll bring this one back.

where did you order the mc from?

Kragen Auto Parts - Yucaipa CA

John, just rereading your post and I missed something originally. I think the flex line you are refering to on the passenger side is the flex line down to the clutch slave cylinder. It isn't part of the brake system. These are usually never a problem, although they can swell internally like the brake hoses. If you are having problems depressing the clutch pedal or with it not releasing cleanly then it might be swollen.

The cardone is $60 bucks here from Kragans cousin advancedauto .

Anyone interested in an all original restore - I've got the original '73 MC and rebuild kit.

Thanks again for the sage advice. I could use some advice on seats. Mine has nothing - no frames, no tracks, nothing. Should I look for beat up seats and put the covers and new foam on? Should I look for other seats? I like the VB interior kit for the carpet and door panels for when I get that far along.

Brent, as far as the seats go there are a couple of options other than original. One is Miata, the other is Fiero. If you can find the original seat frames, then buy foams and covers you'll have a ton of cash in them, but they will fit the car well. The other seats can usually be found pretty cheap at the local salvage yard and recovered, in fact there are leather covers available by mail order for the Fiero seats (can't remember the source right now, but one of the guys on the board should know). The Miata and Fiero seats might be perfect for you, or you might find them a bit high, hard to say until you've tried them.
I used the VB interior panel kit in my car, pretty nice pieces. Didn't try the carpet kit as my tunnel is modified.

Bill,

Whoa! I'm getting all excited! Do you mean Miata or Fiero seats will bolt right into my seat tracks if I remove my old, sagging, collapsed Midget seats? That would be just too good...

Barry B

No, they're not 'bolt ins' but will fit between the tunnel and the sill. Spridgets are very narrow there and a lot of seats are just too wide to fit. This has been covered before in other threads and also on other boards. I don't have all the details as I used another type of seat in my car.

Alright Bill, back on the MC. When I arrived at the parts store, they had the rebuild kit and not the MC. Needless to say, I was a bit bummed. I called Cardone (great website by the way with many helpful instructions) and they are not carrying it anymore, but they would take my core and rebuild it. But I already have the rebuild kit and may as well just do it myself.

I'm still having trouble with the nylon washer insided the cylinder. Shouldn't the whole plunger just slide out after the circlip is removed? I don't want to gouge the sleve and have a much bigger project on my hands.

Brent.

Cardone sent mine back with a note saying the parts where no longer available.

Sorry guys , seems another resource has been lost. I can't help on the rebuild, no experinece with these master cylinders but there are certainly others on the board who can assist.

Well, I've got the rebuild kit and I'll get it.

I just ordered a new MC for $169 from http://www.diyautoparts.com/ (800)593-1443. I needed the plastic reservoir and this the only way I could figure out how to do it. Its a new one, not a rebuild. I'll you know if there are any issues.

Started to have symtoms suggesting leaking brake master seals.The brake pedal sinks slowly towrds floor with pressure on pedal.I fitted the m/c new about 3 years ago and car has only done max two hundred miles since is it possible seals could go off in that situation? Car is 78 with tandem master cylinder and Bendix booster(original)?