Chinese Electrical Parts :(

I've got about 6 months on a couple new Chinese relays & one just failed...rated at 40 amps, I had it relaying my igntion & the internal contacts welded together, the engine wouldn't shut off when I turned the key off.

I've got about 6 months on a new turn signal switch & yesterday it started giving trouble intermittantly...it came in a Lucas box, but had made in China on the switch! The right turn signals wouldn't work with the switch in the high beam position...worked fine in low beam position...most likely internal contacts going out.

I'm getting sick & tired of these INFERIOR Chinese made replacement parts :X !

Does anyone know where decent quality parts can be bought these days or are we just stuck with these totally inferior JUNK parts :S !

I've got some NOS Lucas relays. Can't help with the turn switches. Moss try very hard to stay atop of poor quality. The others less so and one in particular has no idea of the quality nor the parts they vend. I'd go to the source and complain.

FWIW, this is the new world order with China emergeing as the the largest world manufacturer.

While no one supplier is immune to crap parts, I have found that buying from someone who USES them helps a lot, like the MG Owner's Club (MGOC), or Robert Kirk, of Kirk's Auto, or Peter Caldwell from World Wide Auto parts, they both post here regularly and can get a lot of the parts for our cars. The MGOC even has an 800 phone number to the UK for you to order, and the shipping costs and shipping time on stuff I've bought from there has been very comparable with buying locally.

I have found that the UK supply sources tend to have better quality parts / more precisely OEM looking parts. Maybe the UK customers are more critical than the typical US customer? The MG enthusiasts in this country might be very enthusiastic, but we are so spread out I think it is easier for someone like VB, who doesn't even have a tech department (!), or Moss USA, both of whom deal in large volume, and to a very wide spread of types of cars (including new Minis, Miatas and on and on), to end up selling us duff Midget parts we install and later find out are not right.

When I called VB about the front hubs they sold me, which had a machining flaw making them un-usable, the guy on the phone said, "we don't have a tech department in VB, we only sell parts. If your parts are no good, send them back for a refund." Wow, there's a company who cares about after the sale service (sarcasm).

As it turns out, I have bought things from VB over the years, and most of them have been fine, and some at very attractive sale prices.

But I will always check out parts very carefully before I install them, no matter where I get them from. If it says, "made in China" anywhere on it, that goes right back for a refund.


I can see increasingly that we must buy parts for our cars the way you buy shoes over the internet: you buy several to find the one you like, and then return all the rest. A pain, of course, but, unfortunately, the best insurance.

It would be very nice if there was one, single, best source for everything, but there is not. And the profit on the parts for our little cars is small enough as it is, and the makers of the components will come and go as the years go by, so VB, Moss, Brown and Gammons, MGOC, Leacy, Sussex MG, and all the rest, will continue to have to offer us the "quality roulette" and we'll have to be very careful users, which websites like this are AWESOME at supporting.

Norm "if it was easy, everyone would do it" Kerr

Norm said what I carefully avoided saying. But he's correct on most counts. The down side to buying and returning part to the UK is the profound expense in shipping which is normally not compensated. Thanks for the kudos Norm!

Follow-up:
it turns out that MGOC doesn't have the 800 number, it is Prestige Tops (USA Customers call toll free PH: 1-800 659 2649). I should have checked before posting.

By the way, I got a phone card, "sendglobal" at the corner store that allows me to call the UK at $0.015/minute. Cheaper than calling the next town, frankly.

Robert is right, the return shipping to the UK can be a big deal, if the part is wrong and had to be returned. Fed Ex does NOT want the business, they'll charge over $140 to ship a few pounds of parts. USPS is pretty reasonable, about $40 for 5lbs. In either case, not trivial, if you come up against it often.


Norm

On this line, here is a lower rad hose I got from VB for the 1275 in my Bugeye. Two seasons. You can see that the heater tube is not bonded ( vulcanized) at all, it doesn't protrude into the main hose like the ones I got from Moss, and was held on by about 1/32" around the perimeter. Looks like it was ground down to boot. I have some questions about the new hose(s) I got , but will post them separately.
Bill

Thanks for the input Robert & Norm.

If you fellows have been around as long as I have, you're probably frustrated too...back in the day when we actually manufactered parts in the US & UK, you could replace a part & feel confident the job had been done & you wouldn't have to revisit that area for awhile.

Nowadays, it's a crap shoot!

Not just on my Spridget rolling restoration, but on my job, household items, etc...

Having seen better quality in years past, it just frustrates & pisses me off!

I don't mind paying more for quality parts, if you keep having to replace the cheap parts, where's the savings? Once & done...I wish I could!

And Bill, that's EXACTLY the kind of quality I'm talking about (td)!

Oh well, I'll get off my soap/bitch box, but it's very frustrating!

:(

This topic is a perfect example of why I would never ever purchase a Chinese made MG if ever brought into this country. And I think I read somewhere that the Chinese are going to start selling cars in this country...probably their version of the Yugo!

Yeah, you replace a part that has gone bad after 40 years, and the new one lasts two.

Exactly, or in my case 6 months!

(td)

DANG....:X I just bought a new VB/Moss (made in china) turn signal relay because the one on the car was a round one (still working) but was not the stock shape so why not try to make it right? ALSO in that order was "all" rad hoses, cause how good could the old ones be. Oh, and one more part in that order that I'm not to thrilled with was an all plastic made in China junk windshield washer pump, because the one on the car had a broken off inlet nipple that I know I could have JB welded but why not buy "NEW". Now I know why. But the "pack rat" part of me may be a good thing for once, as I may be needing/repairing the old parts sooner then later. This thread is starting to tick me offX( but I guess I need to inspect my "old" parts alot better before I "just buy new"

JUST one more, I promise, I needed the 26 needle roller bearings for 2nd gear, but the ones I got from VB were .020" to small OD and .100" to long, no way in he-- were they going to work. So I called and they said that's the only size they have for that part # and they had no record of any one else complaining. WHAT???

Sorry, I'm done.

Paul

While we can certainly bash on the quality, the grim reality is that without many of these Chinese suppliers our hobby would be a lot more expensive and in some cases impossible to find desired parts at all. In the end it's the overall desire of the consumer to not want to pay premium that as done this (oh sure, and more than a dash of greed by parts manufactures). Cheap parts are like a car loan. You know you'll pay more for that car in the end compared to cash, but the slow bleeding is more manageable.

I guess the silver lining in all of this, is that we do at least have access to parts for vehicles that have been out of production for at least 30 years, and poor quality parts CAN trump no parts.

40 years ago anything made in Japan was treated with the same disdain, today Japanese manufacturing is world class so perhaps with some pressure from consumers the Chinese will step up to the plate in a similar fashion. They have many more social issues to deal with, but as an emerging industrial power, they will be under increasing pressure to supply not only inexpensive goods, but goods of higher quality or loose the market.

In the interim, if American and European manufacturers step into markets where quality is nearly extinct ( ie: with our parts )perhaps the Chinese will loose the market anyway.
Globally, we are certainly now paying for the exporting of jobs to countries with lower labor costs. We have nobody but our politicians and corporate board rooms to thank for that.
Now that I have hijacked the thread and moved it into the political forum, I'll get off my soapbox and invite someone to carry this on in the "off topic" area.

Good parts CAN be found, the low quality Chinese stuff is just more plentiful, cheaper, and stocked by major suppliers.

Recently saw this site: ( http://www.holden.co.uk/displayGroups.asp?sg=1&sgName=Electrical), have some good (downloadable) catalogs in *.pdf format for added references.

Bob

Bob

Good site, I added it to my growing site list!

Jeff and Andrew make good points.

One also needs to consider that those who make the investment in parts, may view our cars as less than daily drivers thus not worthy of better and much more costly parts. Rail away about third world bumpers haveing a less well defined edge such as the MGAs but from a marketing prospective, are enough consumers willing to pay $1000 for a correct from bumper vs $200 for less than perfect repro? Add 50,000 other parts to that same list of double or triple cost for what most others sell.

I'll tell you one thing I would always avoid if possible, that being China made bearings...at least what I have encountered in the past few years.

In a measured defense of Moss, the salesman is not the end all of a judgement call. Simply and politely ask for his supervisor. There is no excuse for a wrong part being supplied and while it may help the retailer to have a known parts problem is doesn't exacerbate that people make mistakes and parts get put in wrong boxes or are mislabled. I've had it done to me and confess I have done it as well. Most companies enjoy making good on their mistakes. I do.

Thanks for the link Bob. Good looking site with superior LOOKING components.

And Robert makes an excellent point regarding parts stocking/picking errors and not stopping at the parts person at the end of the phone/over the counter, when faced with correcting parts supply errors or quality issues. Things will only get better when we as consumers refuse to settle for inferior parts and service.
We contributed to the export of jobs as consumers by putting pressure on suppliers to give us less expensive goods without thought to the consequences.
We can put similar pressure on suppliers to come to market with better quality and service, but only by speaking up and not giving up. That unfortunately puts an undue level of pressure through dissatisfaction on retailers like Robert, but it's part of the process, and I'm sure he appreciates that. He can only complain to HIS suppliers, when his customers are not getting what they want or need.

Thanks for being a supplier to the hobby Robert, and putting up with the frustrations associated with increasing demands in a shrinking market. I have friends in the trade here in Calgary, so I think I get it. Quality IS an issue, but am I ever happy to be able to GET parts.

Thanks Andrew. Part of my business is to know what is better and worse. As an owner of 30 vintage and classics I know the importance of getting it right. Unfortunately, it gets harder and harder to expect and get the same level of quality when dealing with the same supplier. Its frustrating to them as well as they are pressured to lower the bar and reduce costs to compete successfully, which too often means lowering the quality for the same ends. I have tried my hand at manufacturing and its very difficult, costly and oft under appreciated or expectations set to high.

The trend to shop ebay and etrade is also bothersom. Once the human element is removed, it leaves a wide gray area of expectations. The mom and pop shops are mostly gone and Walmarts invade the periphrea of our cities, and cyber trade is as close as our PC. While I am trapped on a computer, I still freely offer advice on quality vs cost and strive to offer the equal and when possible the better quality. But frankly its difficult to compete with those who know little or nothing of what they sell or to cater to buyers with a like mind who prefer a "faceless" exchange mode or seemingly cheaper item.

Would also suggest checking out the E-bay site in the UK. I recently found a NOS Lucas Windshield Wiper Column-mounted switch for a very good price, including shipping. In fact, the seller refunded (via PayPal) the overcharge in postage costs after he mailed the switch to me. Couldn't ask for more.

Bob

I wonder if it would help for products to have three categories of quality.

1) This part made with poor attention to detail and intended only for use on non-working 1:1 scale model of an actual car.

2) This part made with mediocre attention to detail and intended for use on actual car that is subject only to very limited use.

3) This part made with considerable attention to detail and intended for use on a functioning car that is driven as intended by original manufacturer.

I strive to find parts in the 3rd category as evidenced by my search for front wheel bearings and am willing to pay for them. I do believe the other categories are the expensive ones. But that is only my opinion.

x2 Tom

If you have to keep revisiting the same problem areas & keep replacing the same inferior parts, WHERE'S THE SAVINGS!

Bob,
Will you go to the micro car meet in your home town later this month? If so look me up, I'll have the brown 39 Crosley. Its a great venue with many unusual cars. fwiw
http://kirks-auto.com/1_Crosley_pre_War/Crosley_preWar_index.html

Robert

I might be wrong, but I think the Micro car show was a week or so ago. I need to check our local newspaper's site.

Cheers

Bob

PS - Yep, it's over. Here's a link about it ( http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=401859&src=3).

Warning, rant ahead -

My two cents worth: We all lament the decline of quality replacement parts in not just our breed of classic car but in MANY of the machines that keep our lives functioning. Today we take pot shots at China, I recall in the '80s & '90s shooting off about Korea and South America. The shame of it all is that there was never a happy middle between the environmentalists and industry. Industry just packed up and moved to where their money was wanted and the locals were kept quiet. The businesses left behind to try to make an American or UK products were seen by our politicians as cash cows because the environmentalists had successfully branded manufacturing industry as evil and must be made to pay unrealistic tax rates (driving those who stayed out of business).

Short sighted, shallow minded people with extremist views on all three sides have punished the companies and by extension their workers, customers and economies until we can only buy goods made in countries that use unsafe manufacturing practices and are willing to trash their own environment for a Dollar or Pound.

Meanwhile people buy hybrid cars so they can feel good about their environmental impact made by the companies that were poked fun of in the '70s. Hybrids ironically enough have a huge "carbon footprint" to overcome before they make it to the showroom floor.

Myself, I am willing to pay (at least a little) bit more for American, UK, Canadian, German or even Australian made products when I can find them. I also support local, small, Mom & Pop shops. I know this will not turn the tide by itself but if enough people support their own countries and allies... We're still screwed, but at least I am lowering my hypocrite footprint.

I am third generation Californian and 5th generation American - The state I love is now the worst climate for business in the US. Bad judgment by so many of our leaders on the county, state and federal levels have trashed the once great United States. As a nation we now cannot pull off a simple DMV application without having to print 90 different languages. So many agendas and so little patriotism.

Thanks for letting me vent -

Good vent, I would agree with alot of it (tu)!

This thread's starting to feel like Group Therapy :? !