Confessions of a rebuild gone wrong

I really hope this helps even one member to reconsider if they are thinking of going the way I did and save money and headaches.

I'll get to the point and then add some back story for those interested.

Get the work done right by people who REALLY know what they are doing. Even if it means taking longer or spending more money. You will save money and time and consternation in the future. Do not pinch pennies or give it to a local place you have no experience with ( and they have spotty experience with our cars) because someone said they do good work on cars. See and know for yourself. Otherwise there's enough experts here to send your head to (Sean Brown) engine low end (Hap) or APT or others.

Back story:

I've owned Max , a 1971 MGB, since 1973. He was the second car I've ever owned. Through 400K miles he's been a daily driver even though I've had many cars including many LBCs. Therefore I've taken him to many mechanics, screwed him up on my own as I was learning mechanics and so on. I know everyone was complaining about our cars in the day and Max did break down a lot although never stranded me. Most of the breakdowns was electrics and others were general wear. But most was because of my faulty work or faulty work of bad mechanics. Once I put a bigger ss alternator on him because the Lucas rebuilder demanded I do this since he was seeing me every year - I never had trouble with the electrics again.

In the 80s I decided to send the entire top end to Huffaker. Carbs, head, intake. When it came back and was bolted on Max was incredible. I cruised back from S.F. hitting 100MPH and above without issue and thankfully no tickets. Other than setting valves I never had trouble with anything on the top end again until it was time to rebush the SUs.

Then the spiral down. Huffaker had moved onto other cars and well, SU rebuilding is simple right? Anyone can do it right?

Not so. One knuckle head after another. Then I met a decent mechanic here in L.A. and he did the low end rebuild and redid the carbs. All I did was drive the car and put gas and oil only when it was time to change it.

That mechanic disappeared and this last time I had the option of sending the complete engine to Huffaker (Joe said he would do it for me even though they didn't work on MGs anymore) or sending it to Hap. Or letting a local person who used to be on this board do the assembly and a really well know speed shop do all the machining on the low end and head work. Gee, I could help out a local guy who needed the money and well, its a speed shop and they've been around for a long time. I talked to them and they seemed to know what they were doing. AND I could save some serious cash and get the engine back within a couple weeks. What could be better than that!!!???

The first problem was when all the freeze plugs blew IMMEDIATELY when I started up the engine. The local guys remark? "Oh you have to hit them harder than I did? I was so careful to get the right oil for breakin and do all things I might have done wrong in the past right this time. So I had to get plugs for the freeze plugs and then a special tool which had to be left in the engine to hold in the rear freeze plug.

The SUs were sent to a gentleman in the midwest because he was good and a 'bargain'. That was a total disaster. I had to send them to another person who couldn't believe that SU rebuilder even knew the basics due to what he found.

Then after 3000 miles the car was running so badly and the compression was so whacked I had to pull the top and bottom to find out what was wrong. Well the local gentleman put the rings in up-side-down among other mistakes. I ordered new rings and the mechanic helped install them. Upon looking at my beloved Huffaker head the LBC mechanic who let me use his shop did a leak down. ALL valves were leaking. I had my wife run over to the shop from an hour away then run to the speed shop which was an hour from this shop, wait for the repair, then bring it back. Upon getting the head back all they did was fix one chamber. I had to have the car out of the shop so I had no choice but to put it back on.


I bought lifters from APT and a VP11 cam. I kept complaining about the engine losing power at higher RPMs. Went to a Dyno test and it was confirmed. Spoke to Dave Anton and he was perplexed and thought maybe I should've gotten the V12 instead of the V11. He and I had many conversations about this deciding on the best cam and we were both surprised. The Huffaker cam had flattened and I didn't know the grind they used and Joe didn't have records.

I had a faulty pressure plate on the new clutch system which was no ones fault but the factory. This time when I took the engine out I decided I just was best served to send the head to Sean Brown to inspect and check. Sean found that the speed shop put the intake guides in the exhaust and visa versa. etc etc. The conclusion was Sean had to use all new valves (replacing the new ones I gave the speed shop not 18K ago) new seats, and some rework.

The result of having an expert work on it? The head hasn't been this good since it came back from Huffaker. And how much was Sean? Not all that much more than the speed shop charged me to do it wrong. At least they didn't do permanent damage. Now there is no issue at high RPMs. The cams works great.

I know the low end rebuild wasn't done as best as it could've been but that will have to wear out and the low end will go to Huffaker or Hap or APT. If I was closer to Hap there wouldn't be any hesitation. Any of you closer to him (I'm on the west coast) just send it to him.

As a final note I had another 'expert' go through the gearbox. I always had a click when going into 2nd and decided having new synchros would be good. Result? Well, lets just say when I have the time and money it will go to Quantum where it should've gone in the first place as it would've been the same price.

So what I 'saved' the first time I lost by doing it again and again and ended up paying probably triple than what I would've had I sent the bits to the right people and spent more time behind the wheel instead of under the bonnet or chassis.

DO NOT MAKE THESE MISTAKES. Our cars when set up right are very reliable and a blast to drive. Give them a chance by giving them to people who know what they're doing. Outside of the engine a mistake is easily corrected, but don't pinch pennies on the power train.

wisdom comes from experience, experience comes fro a lack of wisdom....;)

I know Peter. What sucks is knowing and ignoring what you know.

Forgot to also put a plug in for Jeff Schlemmer. Send your dizzies to him. Well worth it!

we have a saying in German, ordenary translated it would say
Experience is the amount of mistakes done:moody:

I remember when I got my 74B in 2005. It had a completely rebuit engine. I hadn't driven a lot and then one day I got into my car outside the pub to drive the 1 mile home (was on my home from work). Put the car in gear and I hit the gas rather hard and shot off up the road. About half a mile up the road my phone rang and for once I decided to answer it. It was from a friend who had witnessed the "incident" to inform me that I lost a lot of coolant. I didn;t smell anything nor had the temp guage risen much so I decided to carry on and got home safely. Popped th hood up and go my god...

I called the fellow up who I had bought it from and he came down the following day, towed it back to his shop and had it back to me a couple of days later. Apparently I had blown one of the fuse plugs!.. Never had a problem since.

I had left quit the puddle of coolant in the parking spot directly outside the pub which stayed there for ages and to this day we still talk about it. Some wished they had a camera at the time to see this gush of coolant come out as the sped off.. They thought I had blown my radiator!

I was all smiles and beaming when I pulled it out of my friend's resto shop. I fired it up to bead in the cam when one of his customers said, "You're leaking coolant".

What?!@

I forget what I did but I think I hit the freeze plug enough that it sealed and I thought well its tiny I'll just drive it around the block and get it warmed up properly for the cool down and retorque. One block away the temp gauge raced to H. As I limped back to my friend's shop I opened up the bonnet and all but one of the freeze plugs popped out. :thumbdown:

Its great that you finally got to the root of a problem that you've been chasing for a LONG time.

By the way, I think its under $100 to ship an engine to Hap from CA - just ask him! :)

Thanks Jeff. It wasn't really the shipping to Hap. Being the daily driver Hap was backed up for a couple months as was APT who said they wouldn't be able to start for around the same time. Huffaker said they would turn it right around for me because they just finished a long run of race engines.

Otherwise well worth the $200 in roundtrip shipping to Hap!

Straying OT here but FWIW. Years ago I had the Rover short block shipped from CA to here in SW PA. It was 100bucks. The dealer where I bought it probably tacked a bit on for putting it on a pallet ect. The thing is to have it shipped to and from a bussiness. Preferably one with a loading dock or fork lift. This saves the shipping company the expense of a lift gate truck. I had the short block shipped to the parts store where I deal. They called me when it landed and I went out & fetched it home.

PS, I've done several of these and never had a core plug come out. Am I just lucky???

X2! Sorry to hear about your experience. :(

IMO there are two ways to go. Either have a real, known, pro who is experienced with MGs do the job, or take the time to become knowlegeable and DIY. Anything inbetween is often trouble. I don't see any reason why almost anyone can't DIY if they have the time to do the needed research and take the proper steps. Some understandably don't have the luxury of having this time, which is why it's great that there are guys like Hap and Sean out there.

The most frustrating thing you can do is pay someone else who doesn't know what they are doing. A person is better off DIYing and failing, because then at least you learned something and can do better next time.

Hi Rod!

The kicker in this story is the machine shops were so suspect. Unless we do our own boring and honing and porting and polishing and grinding, balance your own components .... you get the idea. Assembly I agree 100%.

A WELL built MG engine is a joy. But that I mean done with experience, balanced, any tricks that years of experience have taught them. Since very few of us do this for a living all those little tricks and special machinery aren't available to us. Steve had his engine built by APT and the head done by Sean. They worked closely together and with dyno specs know how to get the most out of each facet of the job. Sean told me he did some secret work to the head knowing I have a VP11 cam and this has been dyno proven. So when done, APT dyno'd Steve's raw engine and then did things to adjust. Not cheap but I'm sure its going to be amazing and amazingly reliable.

For me, yes, I now could assemble the engine if the right machine shop did the right job. But that extra that makes it even more fun and reliable I can't do simply by lack of experience.

I did find one REAL British mechanic here via the recent clutch issue if anyone needs someone in SoCal.

Scott,

Here's what one local mechanic did for me before I realized it was time to get off my butt and get my hands dirty again.

Had the radiator rebuilt for me. Would not build it the way I asked.

Result? I've had it redone twice for leaks.

Had the front wheel bearing redone.

Result? Had to replace the front wheel bearing because it was done incorrectly.

Of the major things done in a $1800 bill I've redone 80-90% of the work. My wife was furious.

That SUCKS Gary!!!

I would like to add something and point out that getting references is essential.

Here's why, how many times have you heard "I've got this GREAT Mechanic, does Great Woork and he's HONEST!!"

People will ALWAYS say this. Even if they know no better. For example, many "honest" mechanics will replace much more than really needs to be replaced. This happens ALL THE TIME. "I recommend" that you do this, I "recommend" that you do that.

Well, for the most part it gets done right, so the person thinks "Wow, this guys GREAT!" A friend of mine had 8 coil packs replaced, a new water pump, alternator, hoses, radiator, and a few other parts because the house in her car sprung a leak, and with this "new" radiator fluid, the pink, or orange, whatever color it is, really corrodes aluminum and leaves a white yucky substance all over when its subjected to oxygen and heat.

I was gonna replace the hose for her, but couldn't do it for a couple of days. Well, she couldn't wait and "had to do it!"

more than $2000 later she got 'EVERYTHING" fixed. She was totally happy!!

I just about fainted.

So, my point, DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Human nature will not allow that person to admit that they made a mistake. The mechanic sounded sincere, my car works great, so he MUST BE honest and great.

If I had a dollar for everytime I heard "I've got this GREAT MECHANIC, does GREAT WORK, he's TOTALLY HONEST" blah, blah, blah!

In the end, only YOU, and responsible for YOU. Get references, check work, talk to lots of different people with diffeent personalities. If the shop won't give you references, than go somewhere else.

JOIN A CLUB!!!!!!

Also, many times, the "new" shop will tell you, "Wow, who did you take your car to last? They put this in backwards, this was upside down, blah, blah, blah!" I have a friend that is a mechanic for Honda, and that was a common ploy to get people to come back to the dealership. They did it with EVERYONE.

So, if you start hearing "they put this in upside down" walk away! Most of the time there's only one way for something to be assembled,so beware (Gary, this is NOT a reference to your post, ok!, rings CAN go in upside down, and that would cause some issues)

B

Brian. How many MG mechanics are in L.A.? Not many. Although I did find one through Steve Simmons who I believe is good.

The person who said the parts were in the wrong place was Sean Brown. He doesn't have any agenda and his work is spot on. I wouldn't have a mechanic do anything to my car ever again. Unless it was the trans/engine and they would go to the people I mentioned above. I was just lazy when I decided to get the car on the road after it had been sitting for a couple years. After 30+ years working on it I thought I would take a break and then I was rudely reminded why I worked on it.

The engine is a different story. Everything else I feel confident. Oh, except rebuilding a O/D box. :P

The whole point of this thread is to show its best to take time and do it right by yourself. However, if its beyond your skillset there are many people here who are 'trusted' that can do the work. You would think in the car capitol of the world there would be a lot of mechanics to choose from. Its just the way it is for all cars.

The new ones make us all totally at the dealer/mechanic's mercy because of all the computer control. Techs/mechanics now only know how to replace what the computer tells them. Learning about our cars and taking care of them is survival. Even in the heyday of the LBC there were few mechanics a person could trust.

I hate sending work out for the exact same reason. Every job I've had to have someone else do on the 73 I end up spending a ton of time fixing the mess they caused with a couple of exceptions with the acme, advance, quantum and the local machine shop which were 1000% on the opposite side of the spectrum. I still want to shoot the muffler guy who didn't listen when I told him how I wanted it done with the parts I provided and completely welded everything including a redneck engineered mount to factory rear mounting point which destroyed the original mount. Spent a day figuring out how to fix that when his redneck crap fell apart and had to be replaced. What a waste of a peco system.

Hi Gary, Machine shop problems are a tough one, I agree! I've always been pretty lucky in this respect, and any time there's been a problem most of the shops I've dealt with were willing to bend over backwards to make things right. They really cared about their reputations.

Sorry to hear you weren't so lucky. :(

Gary, I recently have come to the sad realization that when I get to the point where I can't or don't care to work on my MGBs myself they will either sit in the shop and sleep, or I'll sell them to someone who can care for them.

frank monise in pasadena,. is a fine MG mechanic,.http://www.frankmonisemotors.com/
great place,. and helped me alot,.

Thanks Rod. I think down here all the old timer shops are closing or hiring unskilled people to make more money.

Sorry to hear about your conclusion although I understand. I worry about the same. Its really too bad.

The woes started years ago when I had the famous Mike Goodman do a rebuild on Max's engine. They sent the block out to be skimmed/surfaced and then I got a call that the machine shop made a 'mistake'. Instead of lightly surfacing it they decked it a ton by 'accident' and now there is zero deck height on the pistons. I had to eat it because when I mentioned its their problem not mine that said they would find a block but I would be responsible for all the work to it including boring, etc, etc and they didn't know how long it would take to find one and, and.....

I really don't know a good machine shop here. One where they actually care about their work and remember what 'precision' means.

To me having had Max running with precision work at times I realize most people never experienced their LBC done to precision specs and tuned with a precision edge. The difference between one that runs and one that is really set up right is amazing.

I've heard of frank monise but never used him. I recently met Malcolm Buckeridge and he seems to know his stuff and is definitely honest. He's in Temple City which is near your guy.

I'm lucky, Jack Austin lives the next ridge over. It pays to go first class.

Machine work or mechanical work has been a problem forever. Wanting it done cheaply, or in a hurry compounds the problem., The old phrase, "you want it cheap, fast, or reliable? Pick two.", is very true. Somebody who can start right away on an old car isn't very busy. Why not? Someone who's very cheap probably knows what his work is worth.
Being knowledgable & on the forun doesn't make you a mechanic. Having all the books & a set of tools doesn't make you a mechanic. It takes that plus the aptitude, the attitude, the desire & the experience of having made a boatload of mistakes & learning from them. That makes a good mechanic.

I agree however I never cheaped out. I always told all these suppliers to 'do it right'. Every time. It made no difference. I always tried to get the best parts for the job just as this time. The 'awesome' machine shop I stupidly chose was highly recommended and an hour away. It made not difference. I've stopped a job if I felt they were rushing to a bad end. Made no difference.

The reality is very few will ever take the care and time that an owner will with his/her own car. Its an economic reality. Its also what pissed me off to no end when Steve and I did the recent clutch job to replace the defective clutch with another defective clutch. We spent an enormous amount of time being incredibly cautious and measuring and pretesting etc, etc yet we didn't have the eye to know the clutch set we were putting in was another defective one.

Its hard. Which is why I mentioned give something critical like the engine/trans to those few who really know what they're doing. If you have to ship across the state or across the country its worth it.

I was lucky enough to have the 73's bottom end done by British Motorsports up in the Bay Area (Campbell). First class work, and he wouldn't release the car back to me until he'd driven it to and from work for a couple of days just to be sure. Compare that to the jackasses who run the "classic car" place in Monterey. It took them 8 weeks to replace the windscreen, and then they did it wrong. Just one more job I do myself now....