Continuing thoughts on Mikunis, Webers, and carbs (oh my)

Since the other thread is falling off the board yet people still seem interested, I thought I'd start round two...

Tony, if you had a dead spot on the weber, there was something wrong with the carb and/or it's setup. Properly set up, there's no bog whatsoever. Yes, the downdraft is a bit thin till that secondary opens, but there should be no bog.
There's no inherent reason why the Mikuni would put out more power than the DCOE. They're virtual clones. If you pulled the jets and chokes out of the Mikuni and put them in the Weber, it would perform just like the Mikuni.
The biggest feature of Webers, their infinite adjustability, is also their biggest failing... as most folks don't really know what to do to make them operate at peak performance.
That said, my DGV was faultless out of the box... on my engine.

Both of mine were great right out of the boxes too. Not a minute of trouble out of 23 years combined operation. One exception. After 5 years of operation on my Honda Civic "Beastie" a drill shaving found it's way to the idle circuit fuel intake. I popped the top off the carb, picked out the shaving and that's the only trouble I ever had with either of them. No way would I not run a Weber DGV on any MG of mine.

Baxter, I totally agree with you. Just like the SU reputation the Weber has been a victim poor set up and ajustment. I can tell you that I don't have a flat spot, and blenty of low end toqure with both my cars using 45 DCOE. It took 8 hours to dial them in and several combinations but they are right. I might add that I get 35MPG with the GT, and 30MPG with the Midget.

I think you ment DCOE sense you have the DGV on your B.

JDW, you'd be a good candidate for a sidedraft Weber. I just know you'd dial that thing in JUST right, then never touch it again... and you'd enjoy the heck out of it too. They make really neat noises.

Just stirring that ole pot again, heh Baxter?
Here goes my $0.02 -
The Abingdon engineers had to decide what criteria to meet before they specified the carb type.
ZS carbs were put on to meet stricter emission requirements in order to be able to sell cars in the US.
HIF carbs were put on to keep selling cars and improve the HS4s and meet emission requirements.
HS4 carbs were put on to sell cars.
I kind of like that last criteria. The engineers had us in mind on that one.
Seems to me that if you want to change the carbs then you might want to consider how much time and what compromises were made in the origional choice and be prepared to spend a little development time of your own. The American bolt-on mindset is really a hinderance in this area.
DGVs - pro - reliable, parts available
DGVs - con - hose routing problem, possible dizzy vac problem, cable setup
DCOE & Mikuni - I have no idea

No, I meant exactly what I said. I think you missed th eword "not" in my last line.

Ahh David, I've said it before, SUs are probably the best ALL AROUND choice, but it's fun to talk the ins and outs of the alternatives. DCOEs aren't for everyone... someone who knows what they're doing has to set it up, or it'll be a real dog. And if you don't have enough engine, you're kinda wasting your time anyway.

DGVs give up some power to the alternatives, but make up for it in unrivalled reliability and economy.

And then you get the oddballs... the DGS we still haven't got a report on (Looks promising).. Mikunis, Solexes (I had one of those)... all sorts of odd carbs have turned up on Bs at some point.

And when we finally get done talking carbs, we can start on fuel injection... (short answer... if you're keeping the stock head, all you can do is throttlebody. Go to an x-flow head and the world's your oyster).

I had actually ordered a DCOE for Beastie at the same time I ordered the cam. I recieved a DGV and a refund for the difference. When I called and asked them why they said they knew from my letter that I'd be driving the car on the street and a DCOE didn't work well with the cam I wanted. Knowing they were their SCCA division champs, running Civic 1200s, for 5 years straight, plus two other years, I thanked them and put the engine together. The combo they sent was perfect for my use. When I built Bea I set the engine up very much like Beastie and it to has been a gem. I wouldn't change what I have for anything. I don't much care if someone beats me off the line, it's much more fun tearing them a new ass in the curves.

Get a DGV from someone who knows what they're doing and those "cons" are non existant. My cable set-up is different than any other I've seen on an MG application and it's right out of the box, no mods. I don't know where everybody else got theirs, but I've seen some damned screwey cable hook-ups.

Baxter....you're probably right: I don't know a lot about Webers & really don't want to learn...I guess that's why there's vanilla ice cream & strawberry...&, that might've been why I had the flat spot but I've talked with others who had the same thing (right out of the box!)......I pretty much understand SU's & HIF's so can piddle with them...Mikuni seemed simpler & easier to tinker with though I couldn't say Weber jets would work as the Mikuni guys swear by their jets (much like SU says to use only SU parts).....I think a properly sorted out engine with HIF's is an equal to a properly sorted out engine with Weber (notice, i said 'sorted out' not 'built')
...this is one of those areas where we'll all agree to disagree...&, yes, the ZS was an emissions fix but properly set up, its very relialbe, fuel efficient, & a good daily driver -just chokes the engine's potential but then not everybody wants speed....on my Blue '79 efore I started he V8 conversion I ran no emissions, Crane ignition , dual HIF's, haders, etc...but my Vermillion'79 isbone stock...however, each car had different uses - strawberry versus vanilla...&, I initially went from the ZS to a Weber to a Mikuni before I settled on the HIF's!

What about Dellartos? They make carbs that nearly exactly like a DCOE Weber. They also make slide types without a dashpot, but do have accelerator pumps that work Great on old airhead BMW scooters with a wild cam.

Tony, Did you get that R60?

John....he's still sorting out the title problem...sweet little 1-person ride though!...I have, however, started looking at different helmets for when he has the title solved & so I can wear my glasses - gonna go away from full face to something more open...got a nice full face helmet for sale!

Get a shorty, you'll like it. The helmet I wear all the time is the first one I ever bought. A 1958 Harley Davidson, before they put their name on them. It offers about as much protection as a chamber pot on my head, but at least it isn't heavy enough to break my neck in a minor mishap. The leather chin strap is so old and rotten it would break and the helmet would come off anyway. Cops are satisfied with it and I feel "safe" "He He" when I'm wearing it. I also have a Nova full coverage and two Daytona full face shield models. I wear the Nova only in Winter and one of the Daytonas only infreaquently.

Dellorto's were sold in the UK as a carb for street use, while the weber was sold as a race carb (both in the special tuning sense). Both carbs work well, and can be tuned to give smooth running with no flat spots. Personally i prefer the Dellorto because of their finer tuning abilities (they have a finer thread on their idle screws). The only draw back is that they are less common as Webers as they have only been around since the late sixties, where as Weber has been around since the early fifties so its had its name out there longer (becoming a household name, if you could say that). Plus its harder to get parts for Dellorto's in North America, but i you were to find a wrecked Lotus Esprit, you would have two DHLA45's to grab.

Also, just a note, there is some programs on the internet that can help with the initial jetting etc for Webers and Dellorto side drafts. The programs require some variables set, from which it spits out the correct chokes, emulsion tubes, air correctors, main jets, idle jets, pump jets and so on.

There was an old 1962 BSA 650 Super Rocket hopped to the gills with a single Dellorto a bird could nest in here in town years ago that simply kicked ass on every Triumph Bonny and Harley in the area. The Triumph dealer called it "That ornery old Beezer" and Harley dealer simply fumed and said nothing.

I've always heard good things about Dellortos... never played with one myself, but like the Mikuni, I understand it to be a near clone of the DCOE.

There's some spiffy sliding valve carbs out there that are similar looking to DCOEs supposedly offer much better performance, or so I'm told. I guess bike guys swear by 'em.

What about Amals? I believe Abingdon did a Mini X-Flow mod with 4 Amal Monoblock carbs. They worked great on british bikes!

I've driven a 77 and 79 with webber. In both, if you just pressed the gas and tried to go it would bog or backfire. You had to feather the throttle and back off before pressing again to go. In the 77, it was not really noticeable after it warmed up though.

I had a 79 with stock carbs. Didn't happen. I liked the responsiveness.

Spoke with one other guy who had the same experiences with Webbers.

I don't think it is isolated.

Dave, a properly set up Weber DOES not do that.... and that's the point with Webers... you can change every single minute detail of the carb... stuff you'd never even think of can be altered in 5 minutes, then changed back in another 5. Heck, there's at least three different fuel circuits in the guys, depending on if you're at idle, part throttle or wide open. Of course, most folks don't have the know-how to set it up as its best for THEIR motor, and it is a tricky business. 8 out of 10 people will probably have no problem with the Weber right out of the box. The other 2 need to go to someone who knows what they're doing and have it set up, unless they really know what they're doing.

Oh yeah, Webers, especially DCOEs, like more timing advance than SUs. Joe tipped me off on that. Made a world of difference.

Yeah, I had somewhat the same experience (although not quite as bad) as Dave until I advanced the timing - it's been fine since then.
Also, I suspect that the '77 and '79 cars Dave refers to might have DCOEs set up for an earlier 'B. I think most off-the-shelf kits have 36mm chokes for the early 'Bs and 34mm for the RB cars. 36mm is too large for the lower compression late engines unless they've been extensively modified. This shows up mainly at low rpms. With the larger chokes, the intake velocity is too low - smaller chokes increase the velocity.

Okay,
Since I'm relatively new to this, What is the proper way to set up a DGV. This is what came on the car when I bought. I already took it apart and rebuilt it and it seems to run okay however, I cannot seem to get the mixture set right. I'm told to screw in the mixutre screw until the rpms start to fluctuate, then back it out until it runs rough then screw it back in some. There must be more to it then that.
Also I assume (you know what that means) that screwing in on the mixture screw will richen the setting. backing out leans it out. I would think that I would want to run as lean as possible?
Please let me know your thoughts

The mixture ajustment screw on the DGV only effects the idle mixture. To ajust the running mixture you need a jet kit and experiment with different size fuel mixture, and air correction jets. There is also immultion tubes that will effect the preformance. Without the kit and the experence with dialing them in it would be impossible to get it right.

David, please call Tom Wedel at 281-351-9556 and ask him about your carb problems. He says he prefers the SU pair for MGB's, but he's worked on Mikunis, Webers, Hollys, and just about any others you can put on a race car or a street car. I asked, and he will be glad to give you advice over the phone, or work on your car himself if you wish. His shop is at 19118 Mueshke Rd (out 290 about 4-6 miles past TX6/FM1960, right on Mueshke about 4-5 miles, shop is on right. Incomparable Enterprises.) Best time to call is mid to late afternoon. I'm about to take my B out to him to replace the exhaust system.