Engine Swap

I've noticed a fair number of engine swaps discussed on the board and am wondering whats the motivation, and what engines are best suited to satisfy the motivation.

David this question is a can of worms. There are those who would stay pure with the naturally aspirated 4 banger, while others would put on a supercharger or other enhancements to improve performance. Others would put a 215 v8 in to match the car that allegedly was supposed to be built, while others will use the popular 60 degree V6 transplant on the basis of weight, power, performance, and the availability of components from Classic Conversions, BMC, and others. Others will say what the hell and put in small block chevs, fords, rotary Mazdas, Jag motor, etc. Others its the availability of an engine sitting in the garage. It really is a personal preference issue in the end. If you weed your way through the v6 & v8 forum, you will find a great amount of information on the issue.

Lee, I thought so much about doing this but no one has talked about the vibration factor. There has to be more vibration (which I hate) on any conversions. No one ever talks about that.

What's the motivation? That depends on the individual, and we're all different. For starters though, since MG's 1800cc engine was rather heavy to begin with, we don't usually give up ANYTHING in terms of handling or weight distribution. On the other hand, we get a whole lot more grunt for when we want to pull into the passing lane.

I can tell you a little about my personal motivation: I already had an MGB and it threw a connecting rod, so I had to have a new engine anyhow. British engines aren't cheap to build and mine was never particularly reliable or good-running, so why not explore other options? I quickly discovered it was cheaper for me to build up a V8. Of course there was the time involved to install it, but that's a fun project, right? I decided I wanted a Buick 215 aluminum V8, so I found and bought a running 1962 Buick Special for $150. That classic little Buick engine has about twice the torque output of MG's 1800cc four banger and yet weighs at least 40 pounds less. (The Buick engine has a fantastic history and much more successful racing heritage than the BMC B-series too. Did the B-series ever win a Grand Prix championship? Race in the Indy 500? I think not!) I used a Borg-Warner T5 5-speed which is lighter and stronger than a stock MGB 4-speed. The overall combination put my MGB GT V8 at only 2180 pounds (with a full tank of gas), which is 130 pounds LIGHTER than a stock 4-cylinder GT, and the weight is farther back in the car. Bottom line: the car is certainly more fun to drive!

It's especially more comfortable and fun at highway speed because my car didn't originally come with an overdrive and because now I can effortlessly keep up with any traffic.

My V8-conversion was up and running in 1992. In the month of June 2009 alone I put over 5000 miles on it.

Then there's the sound...

With regard to vibration... Since we have so much more torque available we usually gear down to operate at lower engine rpm, so we perceive less noise and vibration at cruising speed. Fifth gear in my car: ~2500rpm at 70mph.

What I like BEST about conversions is that we have a GREAT COMMUNITY. Exceptionally enthusiastic and supportive people. We're about to have our fourteenth annual meet. [url=http://www.britishv8.org/British-V8-Meetings.htm]You're invited![/url] I love to see the creativity and craftsmanship that's exhibited in these conversions.

Check out the BritishV8.org website for more information about alternative engines, etc. - and about 8000 big color photos of converted cars! The BritishV8 website includes a HUGE archive of technical articles spanning seventeen years of newsletters... about 600 articles. Here's the link: http://www.britishv8.org/index.htm

Even though I'm what is called a purist and believe if your lucky enough to find a car with all it;s original goodies and has never been modified, it should be saved as an original car for posterity. If a car is found in deplorable condition, some without running gear etc, then I don't think anything is wrong with bringing it back to life with what ever method someone wants to use. I and I'm sure a lot of other guys have seen some beautiful customizing work on some MGBs. Go to a show where there is a lot of V8 conversions, your going to see some very creative and professional work. I've even seen MGAs with V8 conversions and Mazda /Wankel rotarys, along with a couple of TDs, one with an old Ford V8-60 in it and another with a small block Chevy and was quite impressed with the time and patience it took to do such a perfect job. Sure, there are some who go way out in left field with this, but not many. I know of one MGA that the owner told me, to change the engine, because it's so big, he has to pull the body off the chassis. To me, that's against the left field fence! Oh well, to each his own. For me though, I'll stick to restoring cars back to their original glory, however glorious that was. Even though I know it was a dog and could hardly get out of it's own way, if I could find an MGB roadster that came from the factory with an automatic transmission in it, I'd buy it, within reason, and restore it to concourse condition, just to save one, because most have been converted to stick shift and are gone forever! But, that's just me! PJ

Some of us are just hot rodders at heart. I am not an antique car collector.

After 30 years, the only thing that I am still in love with regarding the GT from Hell is the styling. I think it is timeless. The brakes and suspension are still adequate if in good shape. The drivetrain I however, its time has come and gone, if in fact, is was ever here. NOT suited to keeping up with modern traffic if you believe in the left lane. (Most of the MG and Healey folks I try to caravan with are appaled at the thought of getting out of the right hand lane)

A V6 swap will get you a car that is right at home in the fast lane. You will have much LESS vibration and noise than a stock drivetrain. You can't really call a B series engine "smooth" with a straight face!

A 302 swap can be justified on the fuel economy platform if needs be. The fuel injected 302 with a mid 3's rear gear canl get better mileage than a stock B, even more so if your B is hot rodded.

When it comes to swaps, don't ask what is suited to the engine, ask what is suited to YOUR personality.

That said, the stock MG has an attraction and if you do not plan on doing any long trips, it is just fine.

The V6-V8 forum is full of good information on this subject. I have seen may conversions, and while some are an abomination, most are neatly done, and maintain the original look of the car. As for vibration, nothing vibrates like an old 4 cylinder. Modern 4s are engineered for less vibration, but ALL 4 cylinder engines vibrate by design. All of the 4 cylinders stop and restart at the same time, every half revolution. This causes vibration. On a 6 or an 8, only two cylinders at a time are stopped and restart.
One of our club members put a chevy V6 in his MGA, and it is so neatly done, it looks factory. He put the car together from parts, so it was not a pristine car ruined.

I have owned several lbc cars all being stock. I did a gm 3.4 V6 conversion with a T5 five speed. What a rush. Goes like stink. So reliable that I have driven over the past few months with not even a screw driver in my empty tool kit. It looks bone stock until I pull away from a stop light.
David

It just depends on what type of car you want to drive. If you want a vintage British motoring experience then keep the original engine in place. If you want a car that looks old but has modern parts, then modify to your heart's content. I drive old cars to drive old cars, so I prefer to run the original equipment, sometimes enhanced with period-correct "go fast" goodies. I also have cars that are bone stock for the same reasons. I've personally never quite understood why people put so much money, time and effort into engine conversions for MGBs since for the same money you can buy a much "better" car, but so long as you love your car then there's no reason why not, I suppose. Different folks and all that... ;)

Thanks everyone, as always some excellent input.

Curtis, what a great story, and who would've thunk... Buick? Awesome!!

I grew up working on Mazdas and all of my teeth were cut on Wankle's ass, so I've thought of that as well as electric.

Then I think....why?

Thanks again all.

In 1978, I wanted to buy a GT V8, but there were none of these cars on offer then and I had to do the swap myself on a 1973 BGT. I took the drive train and some other parts out of a crashed 1977 Rover SD1 and a MGC rear axle, bought a new V8 radiator, rotors and callipers, 1975 master cylinder with brake servo, Holley 390 and a John Wolfie manifold, had a prop shaft made and was on the road again in the early 80's.

Some custom fabrication of engine mounts and headers were necessary to keep the original hood/bonnet without a bulge atop.

The Rover 3.5 V8 was the only legal swap allowed in here to have the car certified for use on the roads with a normal registration and without insurance problems.

When you are thinking about an engine swap, try to take a drive in the B V8 and you will see, they are like chalk and cheese compared with the 1800 and you will know what you always missed!

Relaxed driving, smooth, no vibrations, as long as the wheels are balanced.

NOT suited to keeping up with modern traffic if you believe in the left lane. (Most of the MG and Healey folks I try to caravan with are appaled at the thought of getting out of the right hand lane)

I think that says more about the folks you try to caravan with.

Unless your modern traffic is more than 100mph, the B is perfectly capable of keeping up.

My 71 BGT is stock and is quite happy at the national speed limit of 70mph. It's happy above that but I've never tried it ;). It will be even better when I get the OD working.

Heck, my TA will go all day at 60/65 with no problems, but that's not stock.

From reading this forum, I get the impression that a lot of folks are not fully aware of what the stock car is capable of. It's vastly different from a lot of US cars which were designed to do long distances in comfort and relative silence (built for the purpose) and they expect the B to waft them along the road in a similar manner. They get concerned about the noise and vibration and worry that doing more than 2500rpm will damage the engine. :eyeroll:

What's the motivation for putting an American V-8 in a nimble British sports car? Well, I guess you'll have to ask Carrol Shelby!

One of your main guys is Pete Mantell on the V-8 board. He really likes the FI 302 Fords. In fact, he's now marketing an installation kit for the swap. Was at his garage a few days ago and they were in the process of stuffing a 455 CID carbureted Buick into a CB GT.

David, one thing I didn't see mentioned is that you have a CB car? The V8 conversion on those is doable but requires a little surgery to the body.

Peter, I have nothing against the engine swapers. But, to say a stock MGB can't keep up with traffic or do a long trip is incorrect. Granted, Interstate speeds would get on my nerves without the overdrive. Last winter a friend of mine drove his 71 w OD from here near Pittsburgh to Orlando Fl and back without a single problem. I would consider that long distance. Surely a B is not as comfortable as the 07 Grand Prix I have been driving but an engine swap wouldn't change that.

BTW, I'm a hot rodder too. I can't seem to rebuild anything bone stock.:devil:

I saw a very sano installation by a forum member (whom I don't see around here much any more...bugeye8...of a Nissan twin cam. lighter, about twice the power--and they built a turbo version of that lump, and he was thinking about that. Bought the engine for $75 at Pick n Pull, checked the bearings, and stuck it in.

I see no advantage in a v8 except for the noise.

My '67 was almost completely stock when I purchased it 38 years ago. I always looked for more power, but didn't want to go the engine swap route, since to me that would be giving up on the factory's design. When Moss came out with their supercharger system, several years ago, I realized that this was what I was waiting for. I bought the 12th unit that they manufactured and it has totally transformed the car's personality for the better. It now has more than enough power, for my needs, and is a true joy to drive. Just something to consider in the hunt for more power with no body modifications. RAY

I kept the original engine in my car. Since the rest of it was original...and had been in the family since new, I couldn't justify butchering it. Besides, a rebuilt B-series isn't all that bad. Sure, it's noisy, but that's how sports cars were originally. However, if the engine had been missing, or uneconomic to rebuild, I probably would have gone the V8 route. But, to do that, I'd also have to fit uprated brakes and other components. Still, the 4-cylinder does get left at the lights...but that's not why I drive an MGB :p

With all that said, it's not like I haven't upgraded the car here and there--there's an unleaded cylinder head, electronic ignition, to name two. Eventually, I'd like a five-speed for more relaxed cruising, but that's well off into the future. For that, I'll probably fit an old Toyota or Ford unit. Supposedly, the transmission from a 1970s Corolla will slot right on!

The stock carbureted B-especially the late ones- just run like crap, and that's just unacceptable for a car which is otherwise so very nice. I really like the RBB cars, but I like the performance of the earlier cars. I've tried a number of routes, the best two coming from a fuel injected the stock motor , and a BV6 route. Either route makes the drivetrain as nice as the rest of the B.
The Cheapest way to a smoother and more powerful motor is just fuel inject the 4 banger. Adding high compression pistons and EFI makes the late model B motor quite nice. EFI makes the car much more reliable, smoother running and less noisy. Starts in he cold and always runs the same. Hi comp pistons gives some extra power in addition to what EFI gives. Total cost was under $1000.
A little more expensive route is the V6. Makes the B really peppy and smooth. I have one of each.

My old slow poke, purly stock 79 would be very happy with a Rover V8 in it. Oh the thought of it! I know, I know, I'm still on the British kick. But that's just me.