HIF Carb Problem Continues

OK. So I am going to dominate the board until I get this damned car running.

Last week, my 73 B started flooding. The fuel pump clicked constantly and fuel ran out of the carbon canister hose.

Took the carbs apart and found a float full of gas. Ordered float kits & replaced both front & rear, cleaned carbs, replaced gaskets. Replaced all rubber fuel lines.

Put it all back together today & I still have the same problems. Needle? Any suggestions how to get the car running? Getting fed up.

Thanks

Another thing to check is the float height according to the handbook or Haynes directions. But you'll have to take the carbs off again. On my carbs, the float height was out-of-spec by what appeared to be not more than 0.020 in. and the carbs were flooding.

i never been inside one of those HIF's or any SU carb for that matter, could it be a malf of the valve and seats ? where does that carbon canister line go into the carb at ?

you know the principle of operation , pump pumps fuel untill it sees 3 LBS pressure, , the float lifts as fuel fills the chamber pressing a valve needle into a seat to stop the fuel flow when it is full pressurizing the fuel line stopping the pump.. while running..the engine acts as a pump pulling air through the throat[venturi] of the carb which causes a low pressure area which sucks fuel out the jet thus lowering the fuel and float openong the valve which lets the pump work.. ..


seems like it has to be valve thing that the float fits too

these things supposed to work better

386-340 $11.95 GROSE-JET, superior relacement for std. needle & s

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=28997
i wish yoo hadda ordered them too.. another shipping charge and wait unless NAPA or a local store has them....

I should be able to use this from, NAPA, right? I have SU carbs AUD493.

Needle & Seat
w/ SU Carburetor w/ Carburetor Type: SU-1 w/ Carburetor # AUD 434, AUD 493, AUD 550, AUD 616, AUD 630

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=CRB&PartNumber=23568&Description=Needle+%26+Seat

May be able to get it locally.

remember there are mixture needles and float valve needles and they are different things .. the mixture needle should not effect the pump ... did that float kit have item 31 ,, nedle and seat.. maybe its just that hight adjustment that was called out..

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=28997#39

keep in mind that if air can not get in or out of the float bowls the carbs will flood. I would take the lines that go to the canister and reroute them just to the atmosphere(hose to the ground) and see if it still floods. Also be sure that you put the fuel line onto the correct port on the front carb. It would be easy top put it on the wrong one if you are not that familar with the hif carbs. This is just something to check and try. I have not messed with HIF's for about 10 years. Good luck and happy hunting for that problem, bob

Here's what I'd do: call Joe Curto and order the part from him. That way you get some great technical advice along with the part order. Consider the few extra bucks he may charge tuition. He may even suggest something that doesn't require a part.

Or... John Twist has office hours where he'll take technical questions. I'm sure his website has the info at universitymotors.com

It could just be you didn't get something installed correctly and the float isn't able to close the needle. I forget if you removed the carb or tried to swap the floats w/ the carb installed.

Did you adjust the float level? John Twist has a video on youtube on this specific subject.

An LBC mechanic showed me something he's tried to clear something that may be preventing the needle valve from closing:
1 - remove the fuel line from the front carb and plug it off.
2 - strat the engine until it runs out of fuel
3 - reconnect the fuel line and start it up again.

I guess the theory is the spurt of fuel to refill the float bowls will clear the crud.

Good luck - You and the other Chicago area member here w/ HIF carb problems need to get together for moral support!

thatt napa part sure looks like it .. it is said the grose jets work better.. easire to adjust i think but i am a know nothing, the

if there is a napa store close by they can have it in for you monday or tomorrow , no shipping ....

Woo-hoo.... just found 2 complete rebuild kits locally.

I would exclusively get the viton tipped needle & seats from Joe Curto. Same with the rebuild kits.

Others are absolutely not equitable.

It sounds to me, as well, that you may have one fuel supply line hooked to an overflow pipe. It is a fairly common mistake.

do you need complete rebuild ,, moss wants big buck for the complete kit,, i bet you just got the float hight .., i usually end up installing and removing things about six times until i am satiffied , take the thing off and go thoriugh the process carefully again xsetting float height IAW manuals and procedure before you spend a hundred bucks or more on a complete kit,, it could be while you have it apart you want to run down to napa and they will get you the needel and seat for the float out of the wharehouse for you by tomorrow or monday...

On an HIF there is also one other often overlooked issue. As the inside bore of the hinge on the float wears, it continues to allow the float to wobble more side to side. I have seen several where the float would bind against the body due to the wear in the hinge and hinge pin. This could cause the float to stick either up or down, and can also be erratic.

JimmyHilton Wrote:

joemamma Wrote:

Speedracer Wrote:

tedjr posted this pic awhile back that shows the fuel line.

http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hifbreatherka8.jpg

The stock float vent plumbing has the U shaped pipe that goes over the carbs w/t the T over to the canister, but you get the idea. The fuel line is the tube closest to the air filter.

Paul

JimmyHilton Wrote:

looks to me like the carbon thing has 1 goes to the gas tank , one goes to the valve cover, one to the carb,

the one goes to the carbs job is to provide negitive pressure in the cannister so fumes get scavagened,[sucked out of] the gas tank and the valve cover,thru the carbon and on down into the engine combustion area... , if the carbs flooding instead of that hose [ the one to the carb] putting negative pressure on the cannester system its getting flooded with fuel ..
i think they mean pull the hose that goes from cannester to carb off the cannester ,

oppss the pic

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=28992

Did you put a washer under the valve in the float chamber and adjust the floats? If not they may not be closing correctly. Some require the washer. Also, are you having the problem with both carbs now or just the one that was full of fuel before?
RobS

here's how i have it set up now.... see anything amissI labeled hoses before taking them off to avoid any problems.

Also, carbon canister pic is atached.

I don't remember whose car this is but its pretty good pics of setup

Robert,
2 items.
Go to youtube and watch John Twists video on the evaporative system function. Helpful to understand how it works and is very similar for all model years.
Second, I had the same problem when converting my 80B to twin HIF. I tried to rebuild my first carb set and screwed up the enrichment circuit (problems with the o rings sealing properly) and had one of the replacement floats that was sticking. One or both of these were contributing to flooding of the canisters.
You can clean out the canisters (dry charcoal) and reassemble once the carbs are sorted. Would fix before driving/starting as this is a big fire hazard in the engine bay.
Solved my problem by getting a good second set of carbs and have had no problems since. Now have a spare set that will go on my 74 resto following a proper rebuild and sorting.
Good luck with finding the remedy. Patience is definitely needed as it took me many months to get my emissions connections working properly. I have pics in my journal section showing final setup if helpful.

I drove to United Carburetor this afternoon, on Cicero & Lawrence to buy the kits. Fifteen bucks each. The kits have needles, seats, gaskets, etcetera.

Decided to take city street raher than the interstate. The trip was like going to the World's fair -- what I love about this city; wenr from streets with stores with English signs, to Spanish signs, to Polish signs to Korean signs, back to English. The shop is in an area I used to have to trudge through when I moved here more than 10 years ago. Took me back to younger days. Stopped at an old-time burger joint on the way home. Beautiful drive.

Oh, and by the way, I replaced the needles & seats and adjusted the floats again. The car now runs better than it has in the month I've owned it. Fingers are crossed that it holds up.

Now... on to getting the rear lights to work and I will be finished with the major current problems. Off for a test drive.

Thanks for all the help. You guys are really great.

-- Robert

TTFN! ;)

Mark Jones Wrote:

JimmyHilton Wrote:

Bill,

Yes, it is starting to scare me on rebuilt HIF sets that I send out. I do everything I can do be sure that it is not even close to happening, but it still could in some short order. A new pair of HIF floats is about $52 and new HIF hinge pins are about $18/pr. It is not an easy adder to a $350 rebuild.

My favorite place in town is SuperDawg on Devon and Milwaukee ... http://www.superdawg.com/ they even have car hops ...

Superdawg rocks.