MGB: How The Game is Played

I found this while looking for something else� but it�s really cool!

This is a two part Republican Strategy for how to frame issues. It�s interesting because so many of the buzz word I hear on this site� came right out of this play book!

http://blogs.onenw.org/jon/archives/2005/02/24/think-progress-dissects-right-wing-framing-guru-frank-luntz/

The files are large and they�re zipped so you�ll need to download and unzip them. If you have a problem PM me and I�ll do a blast email

Steve

Steve Frank Luntz is a counter to Saul Alinsky (sp) the guru of Obama and the Clintons.

I thought Franks voter group measurement process was pretty accurate and he understands how to use the language. You may not have seen many of his goups but he is active on the Fox channel.

Watch tonight and see how things are framed.
Frank Luntz is fair and balanced.

6863m Wrote:

Quote: "
Steve Frank Luntz is a counter to Saul Alinsky (sp) the guru of Obama and the Clintons.
I thought Franks voter group measurement process was pretty accurate and he understands how to use the language. You may not have seen many of his goups but he is active on the Fox channel.
"

Richard,

You may have guessed by now... but I'm not a big FOX News fan. I've heard his name and it was just serendipity that I found this site. I�ve heard the name Saul Alinski� the guru of neighborhood organizing�

Luntz is much more sophisticated in how he frames and positions arguments. Contrary to Don�s admonition that �Polls are for the meak (it�s really spelled meek)� Luntz understand that a good representative sample can help shape the message virtually in real time.

I�ve always admired the way Republicans frame arguments so they have the high ground instantly. Even on issue where they are weak� it�s an amazing record for controlling the debate.

It�s a real shame that the ticket they�ve pulled together for this cycle just keeps stepping all over the framing they�ve been doing.

FOX News is about as fair and balanced as Charlie Manson.

tbarker7815 Wrote:

Quote: "
FOX News is about as fair and balanced as Charlie Manson.
"

Fair... Balanced and always just the news

Yeah, I much prefer Keith Overbite. He seems to cover both sides equally.

Steve, I watched every day of the Democratic convention and it was all about fear and how bad we are as a country and how bad off everyone is. I have also watched all of the Republican Convention and the only fear I can find is the fear of putting an inexperienced candidate in the office of President. But they have not scared the old people.

You must have read Saul Alinski's book "Rules for Radicals" it was the subject of Hillary's theisis. It was written if I recall in the 60's. Your arguments are similar to his process in bringing down the establishment. It was also the framework for Obamas community organizing " bring down the establishment.

Why do you comment on spelling on the web site I have never understood the point other than being mean or meen it is clear either way. Not everyone has vista web spell check.

.....64B,......... Giuliani just ate your lunch............

6863m Wrote:

Quote: "
Steve, I watched every day of the Democratic convention and it was all about fear and how bad we are as a country and how bad off everyone is. I have also watched all of the Republican Convention and the only fear I can find is the fear of putting an inexperienced candidate in the office of President. But they have not scared the old people.
You must have read Saul Alinski's book "Rules for Radicals" it was the subject of Hillary's theisis. It was written if I recall in the 60's. Your arguments are similar to his process in bringing down the establishment. It was also the framework for Obamas community organizing " bring down the establishment.
Why do you comment on spelling on the web site I have never understood the point other than being mean or meen it is clear either way. Not everyone has vista web spell check.
"

I just saw Sauls name for the first time last week... didn't know he had a book. Do you have a book? I don't either! We may be the only two people who are unpublished.

I comment on spelling because I didn�t want it to appear that I was misspelling a word, and because I got yelled at enough times by Sister Lorraine to know that Spelling Does Count! How hard is it to proof read your work just one time?

Steve, I did actually find the book a few years ago when I read my first book on Hillary. It is not a big book and I don't think I can find it now but it was important to her. Saul Alinski was the tie in to the Lawyer Truehaft (sp) the Lawyer for the Communist party and Hillary. He died I believe in 1974. Obviously this was a popular book amongst the Academic elite and where I am sure Obama picked it up. It is meant as a philosophical guideline. Hilllary did not totally agree in one major difference and that was she felt it could be done from within and top down.

6863m Wrote:

Quote: "
Steve, I did actually find the book a few years ago when I read my first book on Hillary. It is not a big book and I don't think I can find it now but it was important to her. Saul Alinski was the tie in to the Lawyer Truehaft (sp) the Lawyer for the Communist party and Hillary. He died I believe in 1974. Obviously this was a popular book amongst the Academic elite and where I am sure Obama picked it up. It is meant as a philosophical guideline. Hilllary did not totally agree in one major difference and that was she felt it could be done from within and top down.
"

Richard,

The only thing I would add is: she felt it could be done from within and top down... and by her!

Steve

Please don't use the phrase "top down" and Hillary again.....ouch!

Sorry... your right, that's not a pretty picture. Hope you hadn't just eaten or anything... my bad.

If your an opened minded person, you must agree that during the political season there is no such thing a "News Reporting". Every news caster leans right or left with most falling over the edge. They can't even report a hurricane with out political spin.

Steve64B Wrote:

Quote: "
6863m Wrote:Quote:

I comment on spelling because I didn�t want it to appear that I was misspelling a word, and because I got yelled at enough times by Sister Lorraine to know that Spelling Does Count! How hard is it to proof read your work just one time?
"

In some cases it wouldn't matter if they read it over 50,000 times.
Real proofreading is hard work. I've had to do it professionally for at least 30 years. I do love the spell checker. I prefer to call it a typo checker because I do know how to spell. My aim at the keys is deteriorating.

Dave Ensign, that is the problem, the difference in reporting and opinion. A reporter is supposed to be neutral and an opinion can be what you want and a paper could have more of one side than the other. The opinion page of the New York Times or LA Times are significantly left of center and you can choose to read it or not. However the rest of the paper should just be news and neutral. Unfortunately that is what is changing and when you see the words "staff" it should not bias the report. That is what the fourth estate was supposed to remain. They were protected so they could get both sides of the news and be unencumbered by retribution and could protect their sources legally.

6863m Wrote:

Quote: "
Dave Ensign, that is the problem, the difference in reporting and opinion. A reporter is supposed to be neutral and an opinion can be what you want and a paper could have more of one side than the other. The opinion page of the New York Times or LA Times are significantly left of center and you can choose to read it or not. However the rest of the paper should just be news and neutral. Unfortunately that is what is changing and when you see the words "staff" it should not bias the report. That is what the fourth estate was supposed to remain. They were protected so they could get both sides of the news and be unencumbered by retribution and could protect their sources legally.
"

Hi Richard,

You should give up the idea of humor� and instead concentrate on writing a book about Republican Urban Legends!

The idea that the major market newspapers are left leaning is one of the favorite arguments of the right� the only problem is� the facts just don�t support the argument!

The New York Times has featured former Nixon speech writer William Safire since 1973 as their lead political writer� and the LA Times offers up Jonah Goldberg, one of the leading attack dogs of the right.

The top ten Conservative writers are in more newspapers with a larger readership than the top ten Liberal writers. It�s estimated that conservative columnist George Will reaches more than 50 million readers!

In virtually every major market newspaper Conservative columnists outnumber Liberal columnists by a ratio of 5 to 3.

The Conservative message is trumpeted load and clear in America, and you can read it every day in your local newspaper

Steve

comart45 Wrote:

Quote: "
In some cases it wouldn't matter if they read it over 50,000 times.
Real proofreading is hard work. I've had to do it professionally for at least 30 years. I do love the spell checker. I prefer to call it a typo checker because I do know how to spell. My aim at the keys is deteriorating.
"

Peter,

I agree... and it's particularly difficult to proof your own writing.

Butt, it wood seam that all one really kneaded too dew was reed their post one thyme to sea if it red correctly. Aye am not suggesting that accuracy inn spelling is the mane ingredient of a grate post, butt it mite be a start.

Steve

Wow...I never knew that the New York Times wasn't a liberal rag. See...you learn something new every day. Thanks Steve for setting the record straight.

Steve, you should at least read my post. I don't care about the opinion page data you gave and thanks. It is irelevant to my point. The problem is the Newspaper is allowing the bias in the news portion of the paper. The newspapers are not totally stupid any more than radio station owners. Democrats and Liberals don't read the papers and listen to the talk radio. Can you imagine if they only had liberal columnists, no one would buy the paper. There are more of you than the rest of us why arn't all papers and stations liberal. I guess you would say they are all at work and can't listen but conservatives are at the beach with their headsets.

.........64B, has lost his mind, which is fine and presents no particular problem, except when he assumes we have also.
to post that graph and then purposly omit the editorial boards of most all the major papers, and THEY make the decisions, is deceit of the usual 64B way.

POST SCRIPT,.... 64B's last post was the very essence of the title of HIS(this) thread.

No Wyatt...you're wrong. I am now convinced that the NYT consistently provides fair, balanced, and politically/ideologically neutral information. That's what Steve said...so I'm stickin' with that. Of course the republican presidential ticket will get a fair shake with the NYT...right????

I mean...Steve wouldn't play a game with the truth....would he?

64B is probably the very best, (soyokaze a distant 2nd) on this forum at finding anything on the internet to support his point of view. He is to the truth what alchemy is to Gold. To piss off 64B, is to be found somewhere on Google that you are really dead,and 64B will post it to prove it.

Bias.... what bias?

http://www.campaignmoney.com/journalists.asp

I noticed Obama is showing his second face all over the news today regardless the big deal he made on courtesy during the other parties Convention. I guess that went out the window with many of his other positions. I wonder if he will actually have the class, today he is showing none, to congratulate his opponent tonight or tomorrow. I kind of think it is cool that he is having to run against the other parties Vice President candidate. He was doing a great deal of stammering today trying to defend himself on his exprerience record.

6863m Wrote:

Quote: "
Steve, you should at least read my post. I don't care about the opinion page data you gave and thanks. It is irelevant to my point. The problem is the Newspaper is allowing the bias in the news portion of the paper. The newspapers are not totally stupid any more than radio station owners. Democrats and Liberals don't read the papers and listen to the talk radio. Can you imagine if they only had liberal columnists, no one would buy the paper. There are more of you than the rest of us why arn't all papers and stations liberal. I guess you would say they are all at work and can't listen but conservatives are at the beach with their headsets.
"

Richard,

A direct quote: �The opinion page of the New York Times or LA Times are significantly left of center and you can choose to read it or not.�

My post simply illustrated that the NYT and LAT and virtually every other paper in the country present a far more conservative presence than a liberal one on their editorial pages. Do you have something that indicates that is wrong?

As far as the rest of the paper� that�s another Framing Battle.

News is never neutral� there is always a story connected to every event. It�s a reporter�s responsibility to find and present the story. If reporters just presented the headlines without any body copy� you wouldn�t learn anything.

The headline is simple, neutral chock full of information: Governor fires Public Safety Commissioner. And it doesn�t tell you anything

The story is what�s important�

Don�t you want to know if a public official uses the power of their office to settle a private personal score?

Would you be concerned if a public official decided to settle a score with you by using the power of their office?

My observation is that when Republicans politicians give information to a reporter� they seem to believe that the reporter should write it up just the way it was dictated. If the reporter adds any perspective or heaven forbid disputes the information given him� he�s accused of editorializing the news.

Steve

............64B, .......... you are the king of the insult...........

wyatt Wrote:

Quote: "
............64B, .......... you are the king of the insult...........
"

Who'd I insult this time... aside from most everyone on the right... and what did I say?

Steve, I guess you are saying the New York Times is really a conservative or middle of the road news outlet. I didn't count the NYT conservative vs liberal writers maybe you did but I didn't get it from your graphic. So from what you are saying there are more conservative columnists than Lliberal on the editorial page of the NYT.

Richard,

Thank you for your kind words. Some how this got into an arguement about the Times and a Spelling Bee. My concern was pointed at the Media and not Print News. I think most Americans get the Lions share of their news from TV and their unsupported opinions from cyberspace.

I never liked spelling!

Dave

Steve I looked on the next week schedule of columnists for the NYT. And if I got everyone in the right category because not all of them are on your list. But next week out of the 11 only 2 are conservative. Now I realize you are associated mostly with wimps, we may only need two.

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