MGB: How to tackle teenage pregnancy in the US?

Here in the UK we are known for our sky-high teenage pregnancy rates. The sight of a teenage mum in a tracksuit with a pushchair is synonymous with Britain and we are ridiculed throughout Europe for it.

So I was kind of shocked to read the teenage pregnancy rate is even worse in America.

The current measures do not appear to be working... what should be done?

An article on it from the Beeb which I've just read follows...

Quote: "
Palin case highlights teenage pregnancy

The BBC news website looks at the problem of teenage pregnancy in the US after the revelation that the 17-year-old daughter of Alaska Governor and new Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant.

The US is said to have one of the worst annual rates of teenage pregnancies in the developed world. According to a report by Population Action International, published at the end of last year, there were 44 births per 1,000 women aged 15-19 in the US for 2000-2005. This compares with figures in the UK - itself said to be the country with the worst teenage pregnancy rate in Europe - of 27 births per 1,000 women aged 15-19. Put differently, America is estimated to have some 750,000 teenage pregnancies a year.

According to America's leading health agency, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC): "About one-third of girls in the United States get pregnant before age 20." More than 80% of births in this group "were unintended, meaning they occurred sooner than desired or were not wanted at any time", the CDC said.

Separately, in a report on 2002 data, the CDC said: "Despite the continuous declines, the US teenage pregnancy rate is still among the highest among industrialised nations. The costs of teenage childbearing in the United States are substantial. The National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy recently estimated that $9.1bn in public funding was expended on teenage childbearing in 2004. These costs include public assistance, healthcare, child welfare and other expenses."

There is a debate state-side as to the reason for this high pregnancy rate. The US offers government funding for health education programmes that promote sexual abstinence until marriage, although US lawmakers were investigating earlier this year whether to cut the funding. State governments receive federal money they must match to fund abstinence programmes.

Opponents of abstinence education say the approach ignores the fact that teenagers are sexually active and fails to give them accurate medical information or advice on safer sex. Governor Palin herself has said she opposes funding sexual-education programmes in Alaska and has supported abstinence programmes in schools. "The explicit sex-ed programmes will not find my support," she wrote in a 2006 questionnaire distributed among gubernatorial candidates, the Associated Press reports. A social conservative who is opposed to abortion, she said in a statement her daughter Bristol would keep the child and was to get married.

And in 2005, presidential candidate John McCain, who picked Mrs Palin as his running mate, opposed a Senate Democratic proposal that would have spent tens of millions of dollars to pay for pregnancy prevention programmes other than abstinence-only education, including education on emergency contraception such as the morning-after pill, AP reports.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7593735.stm
"

Horny little buggers.

It's rampant in my small town. We try to educate 'em from early on, nothing seems to help????

In Thailand they used to offer free vasectomies on the King's birthday!

We also have the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world :(

Yep, I think education has a part to play... yet this, along with open availability to birth control, has been the strategy in the UK, and we are still running at the highest rate in Europe.

Some thoughts on who's doing it right...

The lowest teenage pregnancy rate stated on Wickedpedia is South Korea, at just 3 in 1000. South Korea is an extremely conservative nation, with sex before marriage very much frowned-upon in its rigid society.

And yet the most rampantly liberal country in Europe - The Netherlands - apparently is not far off, with only 5 in 1000 (according to Wickedpedia) being teenage pregnancies. The Netherlands openly address sex and contraception from an extremely young age.

I takes two to Tango. It's the fault of stupid boys as well as girls who don't know their bodies, function-wise. My oldest grandson is one of them at age 18, I don't know the age of his girlfriend. They're still unmarried but living as a family, their daughter is a cute little bastard, but all babies you don't have around much are cute.

We as a nation only have to decide which problem we want to solve. If we want to solve teen age pregnancy then just start requiring every girl to start taking birth control pills after their first menstrual cycle and the problem is solved. Probably tends to cause other social problems but SSJ is happy, teen age boys are happy and liberals are happy we are back into the 70's and slumber party takes on a whole new meaning.

It is a very complex issue and complicated when you involve minors and parental rights. I think the demographic information is important in this discussion and it has to be considered in the policy and decision. I believe it is much higher in the single family without a father so which problem do we fix first.

It's all about parents. If your a good parent, you know it. You also know if you look around, most teens are in trouble do to their parents. Mrs Palin ideas on the subject are every bit as bad as the parent that ignores the subject completely.

Dave

Quote: "If we want to solve teen age pregnancy then just start requiring every girl to start taking birth control pills after their first menstrual cycle and the problem is solved. Probably tends to cause other social problems but SSJ is happy, teen age boys are happy and liberals are happy we are back into the 70's and slumber party takes on a whole new meaning.[/quote]
:S Huh? I don't think anyone[/i] would accept that as a viable solution... c'mon, be serious.

[quote]It is a very complex issue and complicated when you involve minors and parental rights. I think the demographic information is important in this discussion and it has to be considered in the policy and decision. I believe it is much higher in the single family without a father so which problem do we fix first."

Whilst it is no doubt more common amongst certain demographics - [i]An inverse correlation has been noted between teen pregnancy rates and the quality of education in a state[/i], and [i]teenagers of African-American and Hispanic descent retain a higher rate, it does happen even in happy nuclear families. How should the US reduce the level to that seen in Holland?

quit making your kids so darn attractive...........

While a sad topic, I think it's also a little funny. For those that preach 'Christian' values and family this and that, they ignore reality. Birth control, every hear of it? Talking about abstinence is great, but you are kidding yourself if you think it's enough.

It scares me to think people in power are so short sighted they think talking about this is enough. Reality folks. There are lots of options, kids should know about as many as possible.

Richard Are you under the influence tonight?These things happen in all families from all walks of life.If it is true that in fact Gov Palin is against sex education in the classroom then she's a fool.I do hope she had that talk with her daughter in spite of what happened,but what is more disturbing is the rise of S.T.D. among young adults.You could argue sex ed is better left at home with the parent and child but this has been a failure.

Richard, it doesn't matter if the father is absent or present. That's bull shit. My daughter grew up without me in the household. She turned out great. The parents have to teach morals and start living by them. Single parents also. That's still no guarantee that the kids will listen. It really is a crap shoot. Times have changed. Adults are having kids without getting married. With all that going on no wonder the kids are not listening. It's all gone down the tubes.

I agree Pete,dont listen to anyones b/s.You set the example,you did the right thing and you see the results,a beautiful kid with the old man's talent.God Bless

any breakdown by education or racial?

Peter, I am sure we have a great many examples of what you have said. However every study and every objective look at the situation is that by and large it is significantly better for the kids if there is a father figure involved.

There is an exception to every rule. We have several acquaintances who are gay women with kids and they seem to be doing fine without the traditional father but that is not the rule. Even Obama has made that a part of his family theme and sides with Bill Cosby and other noted people on the issue. There is a correlation between crime and single families without the father.

dte948 Wrote:

Quote: "
It's all about parents. If your a good parent, you know it. You also know if you look around, most teens are in trouble do to their parents. Mrs Palin ideas on the subject are every bit as bad as the parent that ignores the subject completely.
Dave
"

That's complete bullshit. I'm probably the most worthless parent on this board, but I do my best as a single dad. My son hasn't been in any trouble (but watch out later!) I know kids around here, parents go to church every Sunday, involved totally in their kids lives, little league, school, etc. They do all kinds of family activities.

Kids are on drugs, pregnant, on and on.

We can tell our kids about the potential consequences of sexual activity until we're blue in the face...they will still defy our best efforts and listen to their friends before they listen to us.
I told my 14 y/o daughter that a 16 y/o boy only wants one thing; she asked me "how do you know?". "Because I used to be one, about 33 years ago, and not much has changed".

auctionwatch Wrote:

Quote: "
The lowest teenage pregnancy rate stated on Wickedpedia is South Korea, at just 3 in 1000. South Korea is an extremely conservative nation, with sex before marriage very much frowned-upon in its rigid society.
And yet the most rampantly liberal country in Europe - The Netherlands - apparently is not far off, with only 5 in 1000 (according to Wickedpedia) being teenage pregnancies. The Netherlands openly address sex and contraception from an extremely young age.
"

That is why Koreans come to L.A., to get away from their family. They ought to give them some sort of special status when they are tired of getting smacked by grandma and their folks when they are in their 30's and not married.

Wherever you stand on the issues, most folks agree it is always a good idea to help teen mothers out. That makes this kinda interesting...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_slashed_funding_to_help.html?hpid=artslot

Palin Slashed Funding for Teen Moms

ST. PAUL -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee who revealed Monday that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant, earlier this year used her line-item veto to slash funding for a state program benefiting teen mothers in need of a place to live.

After the legislature passed a spending bill in April, Palin went through the measure reducing and eliminating funds for programs she opposed. Inking her initials on the legislation -- "SP" -- Palin reduced funding for Covenant House Alaska by more than 20 percent, cutting funds from $5 million to $3.9 million. Covenant House is a mix of programs and shelters for troubled youths, including Passage House, which is a transitional home for teenage mothers.

According to Passage House's web site, its purpose is to provide "young mothers a place to live with their babies for up to eighteen months while they gain the necessary skills and resources to change their lives" and help teen moms "become productive, successful, independent adults who create and provide a stable environment for themselves and their families."

I laughed when I heard Obama say that it's time the government stepped up to prevent teen pregnancies (or maybe it was unwed mothers). Since when did it become the government's responsibility to teach our kids morals and values....not to mention having some good sense. Now, if the parents just WOULD teach their kids about morals, values, and having good sense!

slywelder Wrote:

Quote: "
You set the example,you did the right thing and you see the results,a beautiful kid with the old man's talent.God Bless
"

Oh I wish it were so simple! That would work in a perfect world with perfect parents and, more importantly, no peer pressure.

That's when it all goes to pieces, once the kids are out of the sphere of direct influence then peer pressure takes over and all you can do is trust that your kids have made the right choice with their friends. At that point it becomes more guidance than influence.

I speak as a single dad for 10 years of a 19yr old son who, thankfully, has grown up to be a really nice guy that I'm proud of. :)

Shinsen774 Wrote:

Quote: "
I laughed when I heard Obama say that it's time the government stepped up to prevent teen pregnancies (or maybe it was unwed mothers). Since when did it become the government's responsibility to teach our kids morals and values....not to mention having some good sense. Now, if the parents just WOULD teach their kids about morals, values, and having good sense!
"

Well, when you have a "values-based", "family-oriented", "conservative" mum such as Palin, who would have undoubtedly supported the Republican line of "teach them abstinence, not birth control", whose teenage daughter fornicated and got knocked up, then JUST MAYBE it's time for the government to get involved and teach birth control. This whole phenomenon is costing taxpayers billions. More "first births" are occurring with unwed parents these days than with married couples. And guess who is paying? Not the pimply-faced highschool boy driving the ten-year-old Civic with a fart muffler!

Shinsen774 Wrote:

You answered your own question. It becomes the governments job when parents don't do it, because it then becomes a burden on society as a whole. I agree, it's the parent's responsibility in the first place.

America is a large place with more diverse beliefs than you are likely to find in just about any country in the world. For this reason there is no one magical solution. There are probably a dozen I can think of, starting with the most desireable ones, which would be things like a good home life, good friends, education, and an understanding of consequences. Then there are the least desireable, abortion or sterilization.

Brian,

If you think parenting is "BS", you are entitled to that opinion. The problem with most parents is they think they can spend time with their kids but ignore the issues. Teen pregnancy is a biological issue, not a moral one. Drug use is a medical issue not a legal/social issue. I've raised five kids, with no problems because my wife and I were able to discuss issues with them. Nothing left of the table and no demands placed that were just plan stupid. Abstinence and
"Just Say No" are the BS things to tell your kids. Ya put a helmet on your kid to ride a bike and then ya sent him or her out on the street with nothing. Wake Up!

Dave

A lot has been said here about the social and economic impact of teen pregnancies but there seem to be no rock solid answers. I remember(?) being a teenager and yes I had one thing on my mind but I also knew that if I were to become responsible for a pregnancy that my parents would have been extremely upset and disappointed, not to mention what the girls parents would have to say about the matter. Now notice the common denominator in what I just said, PARENTS. As an aging adult now, I am witness to the lack of strong parental support for teenagers in that most parents I speak to all seem to say "Oh, she's/he's doing great in school or this or that" and I know for a fact that the kids are involved with illegal activities such as drugs or alcohol. This brings me to another variable in this equation and that is one of peer pressures. As a young man in a small town in the Midwest, sports was the big outlet, football and basketball being the headliners. I was fortunate enough to be quite active in these two events and it kept me and quite a few of the guys that I hung with off the streets and occupied for countless hours on end. The other guys that were not involved in these activities were the individuals that were most likely drinking, smoking and largely loitering around with a great deal of time on their hands as there was not many other, if any, activities available to them. These two groups, jocks if you will, and thugs, were the two main male groupings in the social order. Females were divided into two groups also, the girls that were top honors in grades and the girls that were of lesser moral values as it were. The girls that were receiving higher grades and the jocks hung out together and the girls of lessor moral judgement and the thugs tended to gravitate towards each other, thus two distinct sets of moral values based largely on peer pressures within that particular grouping. Getting back to the parental issues, if the attitudes that I described in the teenager groupings were studied more closely they could be traced directly back towards the attitudes and habits that the parents were demonstrating. Huh. So it would seem to be a fact that the saying 'monkey see, monkey do' can be applied directly to these behaviors. How does a society truly begin to slow down the rampant teenage pregnancy issue? Well, perhaps if the parents of today were to behave in a more intelligent and less self centered manner, todays children would not be so apt to emulate what they have perceived to be acceptable. What I am saying here is these issues need to be addressed by a parent early and often in life for a youngster to grow up having a strong moral compass and be able to develop enough wisdom to realize that sex is not something that is to be considered as cool or that one is obligated to share these experiences in order to fit into a society which has become one of wasteful consumption and adultery. Parents, get your head out of your asses and get involved and begin taking an active part in your child's life. Stop being just a provider and become leaders by example for the young people of todays society, maybe then we will see a change in the pregnancy numbers as it will no longer be seen as the act of acceptance into a social caste.

dte948 Wrote:

Quote: "
Brian,
If you think parenting is "BS", you are entitled to that opinion. The problem with most parents is they think they can spend time with their kids but ignore the issues. Teen pregnancy is a biological issue, not a moral one. Drug use is a medical issue not a legal/social issue. I've raised five kids, with no problems because my wife and I were able to discuss issues with them. Nothing left of the table and no demands placed that were just plan stupid. Abstinence and
"Just Say No" are the BS things to tell your kids. Ya put a helmet on your kid to ride a bike and then ya sent him or her out on the street with nothing. Wake Up!
Dave
"

Dave, I agree with you there. I was just saying that I see so many examples where kids of "model" parents end up in the troubles we're talking about. As Russ an Ian said above, there's just so much more to it than what the parents do.

A moral chord in our country is weakening and has been weakening for some time. We have pulled religion from our schools for understandable reasons but have not replaced it with anything.

Long gone are the honor and teachings; in school and at home of what is right, working for integrity and your future, and lifting yourself up with pride and respect.

Replaced with, what am I entitled to, what are the rules, how do I get around the rules and what can I get away with, who has what and �It must be nice they have xyz�. We must tax, penalize or destroy them.

In reality the result is instead of a productive society a self-destructive society.

I am dealing with a daughter of teen years and I cannot believe the adult discussions that are of topic NOW that were never a topic when I was a kid. A result I believe of sex education and complete sexual openness as well as a sunken morality.

Families of young teen kids who�s kids sleep together and parents are proud their kids are having sex. Parents who drop their kids of for activities at school or other places never to interact or pick them up till late in the evening; some times a day or two latter at someone else�s house. And my kids who are asking us about these activities!!!

If you let parents, they will gladly drop kids off at your house any time and loathingly ask when they have to pick them up!!! As if it is a burden!!! I guess that is what being punished by a child is like!!!

We take part in every aspect in our child's life and we work on what is appropriate to give them space at the same time. With kids out there who�s parents think it�s a badge of honor for their 15 year old boy to spend the night with a 15 year old girl we don�t let our kids get too far.

AND we are familiar with everything they are doing and who they hang out with. We participate where ever we can!!! It�s called PARENTING!

This country is dealing with some SERIOUS moral problems which is being held in high regard by the left. Why should my daughter be punished by a baby. She should be able to act anyway she wants and if she gets pregnant we can always abort! How come they make so much money. Must be nice. Let�s tax them, we deserve it. It�s not my job!

Come to the conservative side. Work for your honor and integrity, be proud of who you are, learn to make something of yourself instead of taking it from others. Learn to be some body!

Despite what the left things, we don�t want to suppress them! We want EVERYONE to be successful and penalizing those who are successful doesn�t help the less successful, it just ruins opportunity for everyone.

Palin has found her self trying to keep up in this very society. They have not run from the challenges but faced them with responsibility. They have taken the child and have become responsible for what has happened with out flinching which is not only admirable but is in starch contrast to "Why should my daughter be punished by a baby!". Obama doesn't want to TOUCH that issue because her integrity in this manner can only make him look bad. The idea that one can act how ever they like and that late term abortion is an acceptable response to a cavalier life style is not boding well for him and people; even pro choice people have taken note. His willingness NOT to protect late term abortions EVEN AFTER the babies are born ALIVE is not boding well with ANYONE...He has very very little experience but even that small voting record he has is not boding well for him.

I don't think any single mother should get federal or state support UNLESS she names the father. Then he can help pay. I don't care it he has to quit football or baseball or drop out of school to make the child support payments. As a last resort, draft his ass.

Steve

I didn't take the time to read all of the post but the reason the US has such a high infant mortality rate is that we count all deaths. We will spend big money to try and save any newborn. Countries with govt healthcare will determine the cost it will take to decide if it is worth trying to save the newborn. They don't count the deaths of newborns born with medical problems. If you factor this in, the US has a low death rate.

brownie2 Wrote:

Quote: "
Countries with govt healthcare will determine the cost it will take to decide if it is worth trying to save the newborn. They don't count the deaths of newborns born with medical problems.
"

Do you happen to have a source for this information?

I don't recall the source but I've heard it on television and read it. I believe the television part was on a Christian news show.

Gary you never miss the chance to turn a conversation into a political arena and frankly it stinks,i dont agree with what Obama said,and i dont believe that arbortion such be used because a pregnancy is not convenient.I also dont believe that the palin family is doing the right thing buy saying her daughter is going to marry this kid.Help raise that baby let her daughter complete her education and maybe then see if there still in "love".If every parent was responsible in this country we would not need sex ed in schools but thats not the case and you fail to mention STD's,its a real epidemic.In regard to the rest of your post you write "come to the conservitive side" i read your endless crap i want to spit,who are you,that you think you can insult people and get away.Who's the left? i guess since im not a republican or a conservitive im concidered "left" Do you know how i raised my kids or how about the other Steve,how'd he raised his kids or others on the "left"--------The part of your post that starts with "this country is dealing with some serious moral problems"--------opinionated--false--visious lies--utter trash-----Maybe its time to get away from the off topic im tierd of this shit--come to the conseritive side, you got some nerve

Steve there is a difference.

I would rather teach people to fish then just give them fish. Everyone is better off.

Gary, I believe that adage is "if you catch a fish for someone it's dinner, but if you teach them to fish for themselves, they eat forever"

Jim what is that picture in your signature. That's cool.

That is the heater valve blanking plate that I fabricated for my engine. Thank you, I like it.
Jim

Quote: "I would rather teach people to fish then just give them fish. Everyone is better off."

Gary, do you think the abstinence program is working? If not, how do you propose reducing the teenage pregnancy rate down to the admirably minimal levels seen in the most rampantly liberal country on the planet?

auctionwatch Wrote:

Quote: "
Quote:I would rather teach people to fish then just give them fish. Everyone is better off.
Gary, do you think the abstinence program is working? If not, how do you propose reducing the teenage pregnancy rate down to the admirably minimal levels seen in the most rampantly liberal country on the planet?
"

That is a big question which would requie much more then I could post here....But it starts with parent, it starts with family. The BEGINIG is we are involved in everything our kids do. We are a busy family, involved in many things and we live as a group. All for one and one for all.

Family values is priority one. Let me put it this way. I have had trials in my life I won't get into too much detail here. I lost my first wife to cancer; a long long battle. It is why my airline career was limited. My family came first. I stayed by her side for years of more then you can imagine.

My current job right now I only chose because my family was taken care of first. In fact I told my boss yestereday that had this job not been where it was and what it was I would not be at that job.

Family comes before job, or anything else. If my family required burning down the barn full of cars I would have the can of gas out right now with a book of matches.

Quote: "We have pulled religion from our schools for understandable reasons but have not replaced it with anything. "

It's a topic for another thread... but I think this is a shame. When I was at school in the UK we had religious education. We learned about all different religions, talked about moral issues and the like. We also had PSE - "personal and social education" - which I couldn't stand at the time but looking back it was a good way to introduce social issues... educate on drugs, contraceptives and the like.

I would like to see an "Honors and Integrety" class in Jr High and at least one in High School.

I agree that it is the family's responsiblility first and foremost. But when parents shirk their responsibilities, the state has to step in and implement some kind of policy to curb teenage pregnancy... I want to know what that should be.

auctionwatch Wrote:

Quote: "
I agree that it is the family's responsiblility first and foremost. But when parents shirk their responsibilities, the state has to step in and implement some kind of policy to curb teenage pregnancy... I want to know what that should be.
"

That's a good and tough question with no "correct" or "best" answer. I know my children come home talking about sex and infidelity in far more detail then I talked with my parrents as adults. When my 10 year old asked after a comercial while watching Nascar, what is "Erectile Dysfucntion" and my 12yr old know's what it is!

We have worked so hard on the details our kids know sex. They know ALL about it. Many of them just came from an "R" rated movie with their parrents and have seen samples of it.

BUT while knowledge of sex of our teens and pre teens is quite good I can tell you understanding or morals, right and wrong, and fundamental integrity is abandon.

Gary,

From reading your post I feel bad that your community is in such bad shape.

Why don�t the parents in your area teach their children the values of hard work, honor and making something of your life with pride and respect? That�s every parents responsibility.

I have two daughters as well� and the discussion we have� knock my socks off� you�re right we never talked about stuff like that with our parents when I was their age. But I don�t worry about my girls getting knocked up or being infected with some insidious disease because they have had sex education, and because we talk.

It really is too bad that you have parents in Evansville who would encourage their kids to have sex� I don�t know of a single parent in our circle who encouraged their kid to have sex, or were proud of their kids for anything but getting good grades!

The parking lot at our schools are a parking mad house and for getting into and out of for school events because so many parents are there for the games and activities. It�s a real shame that the people in your area aren�t as involved with their kids.

Most of the parents of our kids friends don�t just drop the kids off� they stay for an hour or three for a beer, a little BBQ and some R&R in the backyard. It�s embarrassing when the kids come out and say� are you done, can we go home now.

I guess people in Evansville don�t really know the joy of a child� that�s too bad.

From the way you describe it� it sounds like most of the SERIOUS moral problems are in Evansville! Well� and in Wasilla� maybe they better review their abstinence program� it doesn�t appear to be working!

Maybe you should find a better area to live in� one where the parents are more involved, where people teach their kids values and responsibility. Evansville sounds like a Sodom and Gomorra hellhole!

Quote"i would rather teach people to fish then just give them fish" So by slaming everybody who does not have the same political preference as you,your "teaching"someone.You ever hear of the term"give back"do you any idear what that means?It means we give back to the country that has enabled us to do so well,it does not mean we support free-loaders but we do in fact help those who are not as forunate as you or i.---Im very sorry about your wife and i agree with you about family first.We certaintly dont have to agree on all agendas but we dont have to insult people because of what politicians they support or what party they belong to.Thats all i care to say and id rather just drop the subject

Steve Y I have not insulted you. I have said nothing but my opinion. You seem to be mad at my opinion but it is just that.

Conservatives will take responsibility,

Liberals will look for some one else to pay for it.

No disrespect inteded, just my opinion.

No,you see thats were your wrong.Im not mad at your opinion,thats your right and i support it.Its your attitude i dont care for.I find no offense to you saying liberals look to have someone else pay and conseritives are responsible,thats politics.I do find the attitude of someone not shareing the same preferences with you as somehow less moral,offensive.To be fair and open with you.your posted reply to auctionwatch,that is something i agree with 100%

slywelder Wrote:

Quote: "
No,you see thats were your wrong.Im not mad at your opinion,thats your right and i support it.Its your attitude i dont care for.I find no offense to you saying liberals look to have someone else pay and conseritives are responsible,thats politics.I do find the attitude of someone not shareing the same preferences with you as somehow less moral,offensive.To be fair and open with you.your posted reply to auctionwatch,that is something i agree with 100%
"

Wow with everything I said, that's what you want to pull from it. LOL, wow.

gow589 Wrote:

Quote: "
....
That's a good and tough question with no "correct" or "best" answer. I know my children come home talking about sex and infidelity in far more detail then I talked with my parrents as adults. When my 10 year old asked after a comercial while watching Nascar, what is "Erectile Dysfucntion" and my 12yr old know's what it is!
We have worked so hard on the details our kids know sex. They know ALL about it. Many of them just came from an "R" rated movie with their parrents and have seen samples of it.
BUT while knowledge of sex of our teens and pre teens is quite good I can tell you understanding or morals, right and wrong, and fundamental integrity is abandon.
"

Gary, I agree. I do not, however, agree with your later comments about conservatives taking responsibility more so than liberals. I am moderate, and from what I have seen with my own eyes, in my own circles, is that the more liberal folks seem to do just as well as the more conservative folks in dealing with, caring for, a baby born to unwed parents. Former friend and former coworker to my wife, a prime example, one of the most conservative people you'd meet - staunch Republican, life-long member of the Church of God, in church every time the doors opened, her daughter, too. Daughter got pregnant at 18, no hubby. The state picks up the tab, the girl worked part-time, gets a fed tax "refund" (actually reverse tax) 3x the amount she had withheld - because she was unmarried, and had low income. The baby's father was paying enough support that if they'd been married, there would have been no "reverse tax". MEANTIME, the my wife's coworker (baby's grannie), of good health, fakes "mental breakdown" gets on the insurance company's disability roll, and hasn't worked since. Drives around in her new Honda Accord, shops but is too "nervous" and "stressed" to work.

The girl, I'm certain, knew what caused babies, knew how to prevent them, had been taught "right" from "wrong". Why she ended up in the position she did, is a total mystery to me - it's just more than I can understand. I don't get it at all. She did eventually marry, but not to the baby's father.

BUT it's people like this woman who object to sex education in school, object to birth control for unmarried girls, object to vaccinations for STDs.... Go figure!

Jack the idea of liberal and conservative extends well beyond politics and both exist in all of us. I believe the idea of liberalism extends more to emotion and women do better at it but their conservative nature reals the kids back in line when they get out of hand. It is a constant balance. My liberal nature tells me to eat 5 brownees at dinner time and my conservative side tells me I told you so as I am popping asprin at 3am for a bad sugar headache! LOL My conservative side then convinces me to drink water instead of coke and gets me back on the tread mill.

It is general that the liberals have always apealed to big goverment and lots of help while the conservatives have apealed to being responsible and making it on your own. In reality there is both in both parties and all people. Conservatives realize we all need to help people and not everyone is on their own but we tend to growl and constant dosages of free cheese and handouts and "Look what they have, must be nice, if we can't have it they can't either".

Teach those to make better for themselves and help out when it is not realistic. It is a ballance.

auctionwatch Wrote:

Quote: "
Quote:We have pulled religion from our schools for understandable reasons but have not replaced it with anything.
It's a topic for another thread... but I think this is a shame. When I was at school in the UK we had religious education. We learned about all different religions, talked about moral issues and the like. We also had PSE - "personal and social education" - which I couldn't stand at the time but looking back it was a good way to introduce social issues... educate on drugs, contraceptives and the like.
"

There's a big difference between educating young people about religions, moral issues, and spirituality in publicly funded schools vs promoting a particular religion in publicly funded schools.

You're right, this is a topic for another thread!

gow589 Wrote:

Quote: "
Conservatives will take responsibility,
Liberals will look for some one else to pay for it.
"

This is your opinion, but I think it's a gross over simplification. I can see what theories and observation you base it on, but see examples of the exact opposite daily. Although I suspect Steve meant it tongue-in-cheek, he may have a point that our experiences and observation are different in various parts of the country.

Shinsen774 Wrote:

Typical flawed thinking. If I recall the big debate 40 years ago was sex education in school and how it would reduce teenage pregnancy. Well its worse now than it ever was before we did it the old fashioned way. Sex education is a social family issue that should not be addressed in schools.

There is ample evidence that public education sex education has failed, and all we have done is push the teen pregnancy age lower. Government has no business teaching sex. Government has no business providing welfare to teen mothers or their children.

gow589 Wrote:

Quote: "
Jack the idea of liberal and conservative extends well beyond politics and both exist in all of us. I believe the idea of liberalism extends more to emotion and women do better at it but their conservative nature reals the kids back in line when they get out of hand. It is a constant balance. My liberal nature tells me to eat 5 brownees at dinner time and my conservative side tells me I told you so as I am popping asprin at 3am for a bad sugar headache! LOL My conservative side then convinces me to drink water instead of coke and gets me back on the tread mill.
It is general that the liberals have always apealed to big goverment and lots of help while the conservatives have apealed to being responsible and making it on your own. In reality there is both in both parties and all people. Conservatives realize we all need to help people and not everyone is on their own but we tend to growl and constant dosages of free cheese and handouts and "Look what they have, must be nice, if we can't have it they can't either".
Teach those to make better for themselves and help out when it is not realistic. It is a ballance.
"

In general, the Liberals I know eat much healthier than the Conservatives I know.

Also, my personal experience (and this is almost to the person) is that all the light to moderate drinkers I know are Liberals politically. The Conservatives I know are usually either total abstainers or alcoholics.

This is not an observation I'd normally share here, because I think it's inflammatory and not exactly helpful, but your statement begs for it. Scientific poll, no, but definitely something I've observed. YMMV 100%

"Teach those to make better for themselves and help out when it is not realistic. It is a ballance."

I do agree with your statement above though!

Rod, why do you think some Democrats and all liberals are so doom and gloom. They are always mad at someone, America in general and especially some one who might have more.

6863m Wrote:

Quote: "
Rod, why do you think some Democrats and all liberals are so doom and gloom. They are always mad at someone, America in general and especially some one who might have more.
"

Richard, you are doing something I see you do sometimes. You are asking questions, but in the questions making statements that are debatable, like "all Liberals doom and gloom". But getting past that...

Pretty simple answer I think, at least for part of your question. Liberals tend to be for change, whereas Conservatives for things remaining about the same. In order to want change, there has to be something wrong with the way things are. If things are OK, then change is not really warranted. Make sense?

I don't see either side as more doom and gloom, but just doom and gloom about different things. Liberals may propose doom if we don't change, for Conservatives doom if we do!

As far as anger in general, well I don't personally see either side as more or less angry, but to indulge you a bit or give the benefit of the doubt, I have another theory. It would be the angry young man syndrome. I think most of us agree that young people tend to be more liberal than older people. The young probably have more enegry to be passionate or angry. Older people tend to be more restrained. There may be just as much anger, but it's not expressed as flamboyantly. (always a few exceptions, right Wyatt?)...:)

Anger at the US? Well, it's a big target. It's a strong target. If you are going to be critical about something, why not go for the big strong target that is a symbol. Also, the US is a tolerant target. As Americans we have the right, and some say the duty, to be critical of our country and system. If the US is to be a standard, it must also stand up to scrutiny.

I often think that what looks like anti-American sentiment to one person, is actually critical love for America by another.

Haves and have-nots? Can't you see that poor people might be more angry at the wealthy than the other way around? I'm doing OK, so while conspicuous displays of wealth sometimes makes me sincerely say "good for you" to nice people (like my more affuent friends) the real decadent showy stuff is a bit offensive to me. If I was poor and suffering, I'd probably be angry.

Our society is very materialistic, and almost anyone who has access to a TV sees people living much better than they are. We are constantly exposed to an effort to brainwash us into thinking we need to buy more and better stuff to be happy. It's part of how our system works, and *not* all bad. For those of us who have our priorities, have enough to be comfortable, a home, family, empoyment, etc, and know who we really are, well, we can step back and say "enough". Someone else as well off, might never be happy until they have all they are told they should have. This is because they don't know who they are, or don't have other priorities. They usually try to live beyond their means, and get into trouble.

For those who are less well off, for whatever reason, their lives are just frustration and anger at being on the bottom. There are dozens of reasons they are there, and it's not always their fault....but sometimes is. That's another subject.

Do you see any sense in what I say?

Sorry to write a book!

Quote"Wow with everything i said,thats what you want to pull from it,lol wow" Gary i can see trying to reach a middle ground is useless with you.I find your quote to be somewhat pompus and i did "pull" all i need to know.Your original post was way out of line, you seem to be sending the message that if someone or somebody,the "left" in this instance,does'nt agree with you,there contributing to the decline of morals in this country.BTW just who do you identify as the "left"

Back to the subject of teen pregnancy. We are bombarded with sex on TV and in movies. That's because it gets people to watch, so sells movie tickets, and gets sponsors for TV shows. Kids see this. They don't see the people using birth control, and usually the films and TV don't explain the consequences of not using birth control. The kids just see that it's sexy and glamorous.

Rod H. Wrote:

Quote: "
Back to the subject of teen pregnancy. We are bombarded with sex on TV and in movies. That's because it gets people to watch, so sells movie tickets, and gets sponsors for TV shows. Kids see this. They don't see the people using birth control, and usually the films and TV don't explain the consequences of not using birth control. The kids just see that it's sexy and glamorous.
"

Rod, you nailed it. TV has a lot to do with it and so does peer pressure. Back in the day no one dared show a bra, now its bare skin and bikini panties

Well its nice to see Chuck and i share some common ground,Rod has got it right!I would hope that Gov Palin if elected would take some sort of stand on teenage pregnancy's,and std's that are being spread amoung teenagers having un-protected sex.Based on her own family experience she could have a good platform to help educate our young people.We want our kids to wait till at least there responsible adults to have sexual realtionships,the truth is some wont.They must understand that un-protected sex is un-responsible and down right dangerous.Gov Palin is in a position to make a difference,i hope she would do so.

I didn't think it could happen but ya made teen pregnancy political.

Dave

Quote: "Rod, you nailed it. TV has a lot to do with it and so does peer pressure. Back in the day no one dared show a bra, now its bare skin and bikini panties"

In Holland, kids can walk down the street and see prostitutes in red-lit windows soliciting for business. They can watch the same Hollywood movies as American kids can (as an aside, in English with Dutch subtitles... that's why Dutch people speak such fluent English). They live in the most liberal society on Earth - which by Gary's logic, should be the least responsible place on Earth.

And yet in Holland, the teenage pregnancy rate is around 5 in 1000.
In America, it is closer to 55 in 1000.

Does TV really have a lot to do with it, Chuck? Or are the people of Holland just a lot more moral than those in the States?

How do you explain the difference between the rates in Holland and the rates in the USA, Chuck?