MGB: My dillemma

As I slowly go about waking up the 68 GT, I keep coming back to the wheels... Wire wheels. The parts car that came with the deal is also a WW car, but I have the option to swap it for a GT parts car with Rostyles. I'm seriously considering taking the Steel-wheel car, using the rear axle and front hubs and converting the keeper from WW to steel wheels.

I know this is backward from the usual but my rationale is as follows:

A Practical: The more I read about wires on the board here, the more spooked I get. Steel wheels/alloys =Better durability, lower maintenance and more wheel/tire choices. The axle and hub swap would involve no further cash outlay, just my labor. Condition of both rear ends is not known, and I'm not sure how bullet proof they are anyway Are they stout, or self destructors like Dodge rear ends? (Never had a Chrysler product not have a rear end fail)

2 Aesthetic: I prefer the look of steel wheels and alloys to wires on a B just personal taste.

Questions: Am I crazy to consider this? How long do you estimate swapping out a rear axle would take, and what pitfalls and gumption traps am I likely to experience?

Thanks

Building the car to suit you is not crazy. Wires are not for everyone.

Actually the alloys would be the best of the three chooses, wire wheel and the maintenance, steel wheels fracture where the center meet the rim. IMHO

Well... you "could" go with knock-off alloy wheels!

Seriously though, I'm right with you - I love the look of wire wheels, but after chasing my tail on the roadster trying to get them balanced properly, etc. I finally gave up and bought knock-off alloys. WOW what a difference! It will be a long time before I even consider a WW car again!

Swaping the rear axle shouldn't take more than a few hours, just jack up the rear of the car, remove the springs from the rear shackles, unbolt the U-bolts, drive shaft, brake hose and parking brake cable and roll the old one out and the new one in. (if you can't get the car high enough to leave the tires on then just use a trolly jack to roll the axle out and in.) If you've already rebuilt the brakes on the wire wheel rear, then you would spend some extra time transfering that stuff to the backing plates. Pretty much the same with the front, just remove the wire wheel hubs and brake discs and install the disc wheel hubs. Except for the usual MG "clunk" in the rear from worn thrust washers the rear axles are quite strong and shouldn't be any problem. The major problems you might or probably will run into is just rusted fasteners that require a good dose of PB Blaster and a breaker bar. I'd soak all the bolts down with PB a couple of days before and repeat once more before I started to unbolt things.

No, you’re not crazy, and it’s not blasphemy. After screwing around with wires, I put on center lock alloys. They are expensive, but were one of the best things I ever did to my B. The only mx associated with doing it this way is the hubs, and taking care of those. Not a big deal, just rotate your tires and clean and lightly grease the hubs and wheel splines. If you are looking for an easier way to go than converting over to steel wheel hubs, consider it.

The differentials on these cars are very stout. You are probably fine in that area, pop off the rear inspection cover and have a look. I believe all GT’s had the tube axle. The banjo axle is a little easier, you can just change out the carrier/differential. I did that on a midget years ago.

Pete

I changed my wire wheel car to bolt-ons for the same reasons that you stated. I knew I needed new wheels either way. By going with the bolt-ons instead of wires I was able to get Superlites and nice sticky Yokohama AVS ES100 tires for less than I would have spent on wire wheels alone. As a bonus, no maintenance issues down the road...at least with the wheels. I think I did okay. It makes good sense to me.

Limey Wrote:

In my opinion: use center-locks. That way, it's the best of both worlds-lower maintenance, no swapping, easy on and off.

Thanks for all the input, Guys! Guess I'll be buying some more PB Blaster in the near future:)
I have been gathering parts for a rear brake refresh, but have not put anything on yet. A new flex-line might not be a bad idea if I'm taking the axle off, I guess. Should do the front flex lines and clutch line too, probably. Funny how things snowball.

If you're considering no cash outlay, I would still vote for the steel wheels. Just easier to balance and have a smooth ride. I have minilites on my B and love them.

I fyou are going to buy new wheels, look for some the the proper off-set and just cang eht hubs from the disc wheel car. The ww rear is norrower, but the wheel off-set can make up the difference.
I use a ww rear in my BGT and use Keystone Mags.

Steve

PAMidget Wrote:

Let me know if you are planning to sell the wires...I may be interested in them and the hubs.

Thanks

Dennis

You don't need to swap the rear end. Just swap hubs and add spacers. If you go over a 1/8 inch spacer you will need longer wheel lugs.

Even modern bicycles are eschewing the wire wheels. I think wire wheels are perfectly appropriate - on an MGTC.

There is no way that a wire wheel doesn't flex - and the originals were so narrow that it is tricky to find tires that fit them properly.

Rostyles are fine - but usually bent. They cost almost as much to straighten as buying set of Minotors (which are much better wheels).

ingoldsb Wrote:

If you are at all interested in originality, keep in mind that the factory type steel wheels correct for a '68 are a very rare item.

Any wheels 30 or more years old are suspect. They get bent. Not just wires.

As I recall the car in some of the value guides say they are worth 7-10% more with wires.

It is personal however.

What iI did recently is buy several old rusty wire wheels with apparent good hubs.

I had my tire guy pick out the 5 best of the 8 I had. I then cleaned and brush blasted them. Cost about $12 for paint and $20-30 for the extra wheels.

Finding a not dumb tire guy is not so hard. We have several in Dayton Ohio. I looked for a manager over 40(at NBD). I asked if he knew much about balancing wires. He knew little. I asked him if he new where the cones were that came with his balancing tool. He said yes but, had never used them But said he would. It is in the instructions.

Yokohoma Avids 175x70x14 are a good size for the car. I put five on mine several weeks ago. $68 each, plus i spent $12 each for new tube. There are plenty available for 4 1/2"x14" wheels. $400 total. For 5.

Mine is a new car today. The tires are a vast improvement over the 20 year old Michelins I had. There are tire guys out there that know what they are doing. It is not rocket science.

Larry

I have the banjo-style rear end with the knock-ons. I traded up to the centre-lock alloys in order to run wider stickier rubber whilst auto-crossing. Love them and they look fantastic... people are very interested when I start banging away with my little octagonal wrench and lead mallet!

Prior to that I spent a month or so of free time rebuilding all my wires one at a time, the spokes were so rusted I ended up buying all new and having the old ones removed with a "blue crescent."

A couple of new to me used wheels had to be purchased due to extra worn hubs or bent rims.

It all went spendidly and after trueing them while mounted to the front of the "B" my tire guy said they were the straightest ones he had ever delt with (granted, he probably didn't see many new ones).

My point is that it was my first effort and I'm no mechanical savant.

Couple other items to consider...

One of my various fun books, "MG Cars" perhaps, stated that the factory raced the "B" with wires because they were considered to be disposable. A flat or blown out rim was discarded and replaced by a spare they carried to be replenished at the next check point.

Also, Dayton insists that their wheels are so well made that they NEVER need trueing or any other sort of fiddling... they also make them for tubeless tire use and in wider sizes.

There is nothing wrong with wire wheels, assuming they aren't rusty 40-year-old examples. They are plenty strong, and new ones will not require any maintenance at all other than normal cleaning. Old wheels, whether wire, alloy or stamped steel can have balancing issues. When I replaced the steel wheels on my MGA with brand new wire wheels, the ride actually IMPROVED and became much smoother. Old wheels of any type cannot be fairly compared to brand new ones.

If you prefer steel wheels then there is no reason in the world not to use them. Steel wheel hubs and axles are a dime a dozen while wire wheel parts are a bit harder to come by. You can easily trade someone straight across, or even make money on your wire wheel parts.

As for bicycle wheels, that isn't a good comparison. The use of carbon materials in rims, hubs and solid wheels are for completely different reasons than on cars. The design is different and the requirements for stiffness, ride, aerodynamics and weight are different. Besides, before carbon fiber or any of that, bicycles were already using aluminum hubs, rims and spoke nipples with stainless steel spokes! :)

Derek up North Wrote:

If it 'twere me, I'd look for a set a steel wheels (pre-Rostyle) that were the standard wheels on the car, like Steve S has on his '67 GT. That's the way to go, IMHO.

Dan D

Lots of interesting ideas, and points of view on this. My aim for this project is mainly to get it running, and actually experience what it is to drive it. I've never driven an MG even though I've been hanging out with some MG folks for awhile now. (only their race car is operable at present).

My inquiries at local tire shops with regards to wires has not been encouraging. Blank stares, claims you can't put tubes in car tires, etc. So in the interest of simplicity, and with the availability of free parts, I'm thinkin' bolt-ons. Once I get a feel for the MG, (and get my Datsun resto back on the road) I'll address whether to get the GT back to original spec, OR commit the lowest blasphemy and make a Nissan powered hot-rod out of it. ;)