MGB: need feed back on new wire wheels and hubs

Got a customer who wants new chromed wire wheels, hubs and knock offs. It is already a wire wheel car so he doesn't need a "kit".

He has looked at Moss but wants to make sure that he is getting quality stuff at a decent price, and I want him to feel completely comfortable with his choice.

Any suggestions/reports/opinions/ or whatever would be appreciated.

Jack

I would get Dayton tubeless wire wheels.

http://www.britishwirewheel.com/wheels.htm

Thanks James !

Jack

My biggest fear would be the condition of the current hubs, and am not sure that I would put new chrome spokes on used hubs.

I second the Dayton tubeless. Another supplier: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250454561064

Sorry, I didn't expalin fully. He is springing for new hubs AND wheels.

Jack

So sorry Jack, I missed the hub part! ;)

Obviously I'm biased. But to be fair, it's important to understand why Dayton can sell "tubeless" wire wheels and MWS (supplier of the original Dunlop design wheels) cannot.

In Europe all wheels for tubeless applications must have a safety ridge to prevent the tire bead from dropping into the center of the wheel causing catastrophic deflation during a side impact. The typical wheel used on British sports cars has spokes penetrating the rim where this safety ridge would be, so it's impossible to make a wheel of this design meet European requirements for use without tubes.

Dayton wheels do not need to meet this stringent requirement, because the US does not so far pay attention to it. So, they are allowed to sell wheels without this safety ridge as "tubeless".

MWS does offer some tubeless wire wheels, but only in the center lace design where it is possible to incorporate the safety ridge on the rim. The 15" center lace Cobra wheel is an example of a tubeless wire wheel with safety ridge.

That's the difference. Just sealing the spokes with silicone does not make a wheel safe for use without tubes according to the European safety agencies.

I don't have an axe to grind, just thought it would be fair to get the facts out. I've had good and bad experiences with wires and as long as a tire doesn't go flat, or the car be involved in a major incident, the Daytons would never give a problem.

Unless the new wires have safety beads i would not run them tubeless. I had a flat at speed on a old set of american racing silverstones. They are like wires and are supposed to be run with tubes.The tire will break free from the bead once the pressure drops enough. VERY scary! Talk to the guys at Hendrix wire wheel in Greensboro NC and see what they have to say. Bob

Jack,
Your might want to check with Allen at Hendrix in Greensboro. http://www.hendrixwirewheel.com/ I know a couple of people locally who speak highly of him.

Considering that tubes only weigh about two pounds each, I don't see any reason to worry about it. Dunlop / MWS wheels look more original while Daytons are slightly more durable. I own one set of each and am happy with both.

Jim Lema Wrote:

Jack I've been VERY happy with my Daytons. I also bought new hubs from Moss and the quaility seemed great.

I also love my dayton tubeless. 3 years now, no problems. Dailer driver. I got fed up having flats with tubes. Yes, in theory, tubes will work just fine. In realty, it is a pain on a DD. Changing a flat tire on the side of a highway can be considerably less safe than the additional tire risk---however that would be calculated---from a side impact.

Not just Dayton tubeless, but aluminum alloy rims, not chromed steel. Now you have a wheel you could put on an Aston Martin. Well, a DB6 or DBS, anyway. My next wheels.

Tubes versus tubeless has little to nothing to do with the likelihood of getting a puncture. I've run tubes and radials on just about every car I've ever owned including current and past daily drivers. I can remember getting only a small handful of flats in the past 20 years, and every one of them was from a large nail, except for one leaky valve stem (which incidentally was a tubeless type).

The bottom line is that no tire should have chronic flat problems whether it's tubed or tubeless, steel, alloy or spokes. There is simply no reason for it if the tubes and tires are mounted correctly and the hardware is in good order.

If you remember the yellow 74 that I sold several years back, it had new wire wheels from Moss (stainless spokes woo hoo!) and new hubs. The guy bought it for his son who was returning from some battle zone. I see them both every year at the PIR ABFM and they are still smiling, not stealing my gas at night or carving up the soft top out of vengeance.
The Moss splines are not a perfect replication, but they are also not something that one sees and they work just fine.

My experience with wire wheels is as follows. The only ones I can compare are the ones I own.

My Dayton chrome 72 spoked tubeless wheels required less wheel weights when balancing than the 60 spoked Dunlop wheels. The 72s should be a stronger wheel.

The Dayton chrome wheels have stainless spokes versus chromed spokes which is what Dunlop chrome wheels have if that makes any difference to you.

I do keep about 6 spare tubes in my personal stock should I ever need them in either wheel set.

For my money, I would buy Daytons again without a second thought. They are a US made product by the way made in Ohio.

I am not thrilled with products made in India which is where Dunlops are produced. Part of my problem with their products comes from having visited several BHEL owned plants while there. I was not impressed with their quality control at all. I know they meet their ISO9000 or 9001 plans but if you know what that involves, it does not really tell you much. All they have to do is do what they write in the plan. You would have to read their plan in order to tell if it was what you consider a good quality plan or not.

Your opinions may vary from mine but I reserve the right to have mine too.


Cheers,

Rob

Any tire shop can balance the Dayton tubless wheel.

Don't mean to butt in, but I guess I am, what's the general opinion on bolt on wire wheels?

Bolt-on wire wheels work fine, but they look quite different because of the huge mounting flange. In my opinion they offer only the downsides of wire wheels without the benefits of bolt-ons. The advantage they offer is cost savings over a full conversion, and 40 years from now you won't be due for spline replacement.

the real difference here is the safety bead and what happens when you get a "blow out" not just a flat.....if you are at highway speeds, the tire will leave the rim right away without a safety bead....like Kelvin said, not fun.

My long term plan is to get Dayton tubeless wire wheels. For now I'm running the standard factory wire wheel with tubes. After three flats in two years I got all new tires. If you run tubes make sure you have new tires. It does not matter how good the tread on the tire looks, old tires will give you flats even with new tubes. My previous set of tires were about 10 years old. They did not have any cracks in the sidewall, however, I did get flat tires even with new tubes. Just get new tires and new tubes. Should last for at least five to seven years.

I just voted with my wallet.
After 25 years suffering with "Dunlop" (New Deli)chrome wires wheels which every year would break about 2 or 3 spokes on one of the wheels a change in wheel had to be done.
As this was not only inconvenient, (luckily we have a fellow in town who can change spokes and true wire wheels) it was getting expensive. So a few months ago I sprung for 4 brand new Dayton 14" X 72 spoke chrome wires.
I am running these tubless in spite of the mention by Kelvin and others of tire migration from the tire rim, I really do not see this as an issue in day to day driving.
So far I have about 2500 miles on the Daytons, no broken spokes and all is well with the world.
Cheers

Another vote for Dayton. I bought 4 just under 3 years ago. This year I noticed some rust on the inner hub. I long since have lost the receipt. I called Dayton and, after a very short discussion about knowing the difference between brake dust and rust, they had me verify the date of manufacture engraved into the inside of the rim. It was just under 3 years. Shipped the old one back to them and they replaced it with a spanking new wheel.

Tom

FWIW, I ran for a doz years on a set of Dayton tubeless wires on an MGA I had. And that was many years ago. All I can say is that during that time I never had any bad experiences with them of the sorts described. And these were wheels run frequently under ordinary driving conditions over some less than wonderful roads in rural Idaho. I am not saying that negates any of the comments made, but just that this was one person's real world experience with them.

I bought a complete set of the Dunlop Chrome 72 Spoke Wire Wheels from Vicky Brit a few years ago, before all the prices went thru the roof.

While, I haven't driven them on my resto, as I'm not finished yet, but, I can say, THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL!!!

The only reason that I chose to buy them from Vicky Brit and not Moss was because I only paid $999 for the 14" HD 72 Spoke Chrome WWs. At the time, this was about $200 less then Moss.

Wow, I just looked at the VB and Moss sites and YIKES! They now want $1949/4 at VB and $411/1 at Moss.

Wow, I am SOOOOO glad that I bought everything when I did. Now, I just have to FINISH!!!!! hahahahahaha (never said that before, eh?)


The only difference between a tubed tire and a tubeless as they relate to flats is that a tubed tire will lose all the air. If you run over a nail in a tubeless tire, sometimes it will hold air for a few days or weeks, pull it out and it goes down pretty fast though. In a tubed tire, its as if you pulled the nail out. The air won;t linger inside the tube for days or weeks, it leaks.

If you keep new tubes inside the tires each time the tires are replaced, then flats from rubbing the spokes are eliminated. Also, keeping the inside clean, and with the rubbers inside helps too.

Overall, loook, fit and finish of the Dunlops is beautiful.

B