MGB: Never Trust a PO to Tell You Everything

Oct 30, 2009 15:36:37
GlenP

I spent a couple of months looking for an MGB. My basic conditions were little or no rust and running - preferably with current license and registration and in a price range of 3-5k. I talked to about a dozen people about their B ads. About half were rejected based on the phone conversation. I looked at the rest and, during the course of a physical inspection and/or drive, rejected most of the remainder. It's not so much that they lied, It's just that didn't volunteer information unless you specifically asked or you found something baaaad. I learned to modify and add to my question and exam bank over the course of the search. I thought I had covered all the bases - crash, fire, flood damage, OD, cracked glass, operating lights and gauges, etc. I thought I was pretty thorough.

Not so.

The one I eventually chose, the Brooklands(ish) Green 1976 B Roadster, had its share of issues. Dodgy suspension (front fixed), dodgy front brakes (also fixed), poor gas mileage (partially fixed), broken axle check straps (parts on hand), rotted steering boots (parts on hand), wet carpets and rusted floor pans (all fixed). Then there was the question of aftermarket items. None.

Not so.

Upon examination there were the retrofitted twin SU carbs in lieu of the single Z-S. There was the wood trimmed upper door edges, the fancy wood rimmed steering wheel, and the wood shift knob. Pleasant surprises, yes, but there was still much to be done before it was ready tearing up the pavement. My trips to this point had been limited to around the neighborhood or on some of the larger boulevards around town to test my mechanical efforts. I haven't killed myself, so things are looking up. Except that the PO tossed the Z-S carb, but kept the air cleaner assembly.

Nevertheless, I decided to visit a local BL expert (no, not Jimmy Hilton) and have him go over the car from nose to tail with me so we could make of list of what I could fix (the rear suspension bushings are still on my list) and what he had to fix because of my limited knowledge, skills, tools, facilities or some combination of the four. So up it went on the rack. You have a whole 'nother perspective of a car when it's a foot or so over your head. No smooth, shiny painted metal; no soft upholstery and nice looking instrument panel. Just sharp angles, pipes, wires, grease, dirt, and deep dark recesses where you don't necessarily want to reach in and feel around. At least, not without a light ...and maybe a gun. We found a seized e-brake cable. The handle moved and seemed to have resistance where it was supposed to, but it wasn't working. Then we found the rear brake shoes had been installed backwards. They were jammed in the partially on position or had become unseated. Well, that explained the binding rear brakes. Also found a leaking rear brake hose which was apparently throwing a bit of fluid onto the right rear wheel and giving a visual impression of a leaking wheel cylinder. The PO had said the cylinder was leaking, so I was planning to replace it. The wheel cylinders were actually fine, as were the rotors. The differential was fine as were the u-joints and drive shaft. There were no odd sounds from the engine, no billowing clouds of smoke - of any color. No rusting structural components. No Jimmy Hoffa.

Since it was up on the rack, we went ahead and replaced the brakes shoes (Wagner, 27.95 at O'Reilly's). and replaced the axle straps. I wandered further under the car to take some pictures to help me during the winter projects. Only whanged my head twice. No blood. Some cussing. Anyway, I'm looking at everything: brake pipes, wiring, structural elements, and so on. Ken then said, "I didn't know this had an overdrive." I said, "It doesn't, just a standard four speed." His response was a soft, "No, you have one." So I came over to where he was standing and looked up at large cylinder covered in grease, oil, and dirt. It had a label on it. I wiped it off and read it: Laycock Type LH Overdrive.

SWEET MOTHER O'GOD!!!

I swear my heart rate doubled in less than .01 seconds. I had no idea what to say. I had asked the PO on the phone about an OD and the response was no. I asked again when checking it over. Again, no. I didn't squirm under the car to actually look. I mean, you'd think he'd know, right? Since then, all the time in my garage had been spent in the engine compartment, the front end, and the interior. I'm still in a state of shock ...and frustration. We can't test it til next week, so I get to stew over it for the weekend.

POs, you just can't trust 'em...

Oct 30, 2009 15:48:56
ingoldsb

Wow - all this a whole two months before Christmas!!

The OD compensates for all other sins, BTW. And most of the stuff that was bad is just normal wear and tear items - no biggies at all!

Oct 30, 2009 15:50:40
GERONIMO

........... " She uses a little oil but other than that, she'd cherry".............

Yeah, right. In a pigs A**.

A nice find on your part.

Jim B.

Oct 30, 2009 15:56:09
purdysmg

I like to by them like that. When I am finished with the repairs I KNOW it is road worthy. The OD is a super bonus!!!

Oct 30, 2009 16:13:14
RAY 67 TOURER

When I decided to buy an MGB, I looked for 9 months in 3 different states. It was amazing what DPOs had done to their cars, or hadn't done. As I was about to give up, a friend who was the service manager at a VW dealership, called me and said that they had just received a "very clean" B on a trade. That afternoon, I test drove it and was quite impressed. The original owner had had it serviced at an MG dealership and had all of the receipts. They were in the boot along with the original handbook and steering wheel. It was a one owner car that had been given as a Christmas present. Why couldn't I get gifts like that? This was in 1972 and I have it to this day. It's a '67 Roadster. It didn't have OD, but I cured that by installing a rebuilt '72 OD trans fron Moss, the last one that they had at the time, an LH Laycock 4 synchro. That and a Moss supercharger made a good car into a great car. Good luck with your new purchase. RAY

Oct 30, 2009 16:13:19
supergrade

You know, it's funny that you mention that...I spent all day yesterday under the car, and I actually DID find Jimmy Hoffa. He was jammed up underneath the rear axle. Once I got him out of there and wiped him off with a rag, he seemed ok. He mumbled something about "Frank Fitzsimmons" and wandered off. Funny the stuff you find...

Oct 30, 2009 16:26:23
BManBrian67

The PO prolly didn't even know he had it.

If the wires were disconnected and it wasn't operational, he might have never known. Not everyone reads the forums here, and not everyone is up to speed on things.

YOU SCORED MY FRIEND. TOTALLY SCORED. You should be dancing a jig tonight. From the tone of your post, I get a sense that you are angry at the PO.

Geez, you SCORED a set of TWIN SUs ANNNNNNNNDDDDDD and OD UNIT.

If I was you, I'd edit my post and send the guy another $500 for the pleasant surpise!!!!!

Whats gonna be wrong with your OD is just something simple. Clogged Filter, dirty fluid, Broken or disconnected solenoid. Something totally benign that the retardo didn't know how to fix.

Heck, the ZS carb, if you live near any water, there's probably 50% of the boats docked that have those ZS carbs as a boat anchor!!!! Ahoy Matey! YOU SCORED!!!!!

Trick or Treat, look! mom, someone was handing out twin SUs and OD Trannys!!!! Can I trick or Treat down your street?

Oct 30, 2009 16:33:19
supergrade

[quote=BManBrian67]
The PO prolly didn't even know he had it.

If the wires were disconnected and it wasn't operational, he might have never known. Not everyone reads the forums here, and not everyone is up to speed on things.

YOU SCORED MY FRIEND. TOTALLY SCORED. You should be dancing a jig tonight. From the tone of your post, I get a sense that you are angry at the PO.

Geez, you SCORED a set of TWIN SUs ANNNNNNNNDDDDDD and OD UNIT.

If I was you, I'd edit my post and send the guy another $500 for the pleasant surpise!!!!!

Whats gonna be wrong with your OD is just something simple. Clogged Filter, dirty fluid, Broken or disconnected solenoid. Something totally benign that the retardo didn't know how to fix.

Heck, the ZS carb, if you live near any water, there's probably 50% of the boats docked that have those ZS carbs as a boat anchor!!!! Ahoy Matey! YOU SCORED!!!!!

Trick or Treat, look! mom, someone was handing out twin SUs and OD Trannys!!!! Can I trick or Treat down your street?[/quote]


x2 Seriously.

Oct 30, 2009 16:39:22
The Wiz

Excellent!

Just one small observation - learn to deal with the aftermarket twin carbs, you will not be happy if you switch back to the Zenith.

I once did the same with a B, I bought it assuming it had no overdrive, I had a 74 (UK spec) with the O/D switch on the dash, I bought a 75, no switch on the dash so I assumed no overdrive. Once my mechanic at the time pointed out the O/D under the car it took me a LONG time to find the switch on the column stalk!

Oct 30, 2009 17:49:04
AzMarc

For me, part of the love of owning an MGB is finding areas to improve and learning about the mechanicals.....Nice score with the OD.

Oct 30, 2009 22:10:24
rlich8

Very typical of many MG owners. My dad said it was even worse back in the day when there were more of these things around there. Now many have been restored/reconditioned. But ya still got some bagels out there!

Oct 30, 2009 22:21:40
GlenP

Brian/Mathew, I'm not mad at the PO. I was writing with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. With all of the posts about DPOs and what they do or don't do, it's just beyond me to find something like 'the undiscovered OD'. I was just so very surprised. Really, you have no idea; I can't stop grinning. The crowd in my head is still cheering.

Mike, I'm not going back to the Z-S carbs. I just can't figure out why he tossed it, but kept the air cleaner assembly (along with a bunch of other stuff that was stuffed in the trunk - most of it broken). All of the emissions stuff was removed by the PO when the conversion was done; or maybe sooner, I'm not sure. The car's history is a bit vague. It's like POs never ask questions when they buy it. Ever had an accident? Not since I've had it. How about before you had it? I don't know.

With the newly tuned engine, non-binding brakes, new suspension bushings, and everything else being sorted out, I expect Guinness to run like the wind.

Cheers,

Glen

Oct 31, 2009 04:41:51
chuck cougill

did you buy a lottery ticket ?

Oct 31, 2009 07:21:03
MrMarty51

[quote=BManBrian67]
The PO prolly didn't even know Jimmy Hoffa was in there.

If the wires were disconnected and it wasn't operational, he might have never known. Not everyone reads the forums here, and not everyone is up to speed on things.

YOU SCORED MY FRIEND. TOTALLY SCORED. You should be dancing a jig tonight. From the tone of your post, I get a sense that you are angry at the PO.

Geez, you SCORED a set of TWIN SUs ANNNNNNNNDDDDDD and OD UNIT.

If I was you, I'd edit my post and send the guy another $500 for the pleasant surpise!!!!!

Whats gonna be wrong with your OD is just something simple. Clogged Filter, dirty fluid, Broken or disconnected solenoid. Something totally benign that the retardo didn't know how to fix.

Heck, the ZS carb, if you live near any water, there's probably 50% of the boats docked that have those ZS carbs as a boat anchor!!!! Ahoy Matey! YOU SCORED!!!!!

Trick or Treat, look! mom, someone was handing out twin SUs and OD Trannys!!!! Can I trick or Treat down your street?[/quote]
All Right I got to fix another post.:thumbsup:

That is a very nice bonus on the OD.I had a rusted real bad MG given to Me right after I had bought mine 78,In the trunk was a transmission,No matter how much I stared at that transmission I could NOT get it to grow an Overdrive.:bouncing::bouncing:

Oct 31, 2009 08:36:36
ragtoprestorer

Same thing happened to me! I bought mine from a fellow that owned a British auto garage and the OD was my first question. He said "no sorry and it would be another $1000 if it did. I start looking on Ebay and C list and almost buy a couple different OD's, then one day I am under it fixing the brake system and sure enough there is an LH OD in the car and it works. Lucky day!

Oct 31, 2009 12:24:48
costerhus

You lucky....

I'd very much like an OD for my GT. I tend to cruise it about 65-70mph on the highway. Doable, but noisy :)

At least with that car, I knew what I was getting into, since it was originally my father's car. Most of what I knew about it, not only came from reading through the (substantial) bill folder, but from eventually taking the car apart :p Most of the trouble areas, I already knew about--the blown engine, lack of brakes, butchered electrics, rust, etc. So, no surprises there :p

Oct 31, 2009 15:33:27
GlenP

No lottery ticket, Chuck. Thought about it, but I didn't want press my luck - like getting hit by a bus on the way home. Karma, y'know...

Jeff, your experience is even more surprising. A British car business owner didn't know he was selling an OD equipped car? Yeesh!

OK, so on the assumption (knock wood) that the OD works, I've been reading the manual about its operation. OD control for a '76 is via the the right hand stalk on the steering column. Later models used a thumb switch on the shift knob. So far, so good. The manual, however, only addresses the operation for the later models. I'm left with the impression that engagement is at the 40 mph point or higher and in 4th gear. Is this true? Can the system be engaged or disengaged in any other gear or at any other speeds?

I plan on testing its operation as soon as I get some other issues taken care of. I'd hate to do something wrong and turn my new found treasure into bits of scrap metal...

Cheers,

Glen

Oct 31, 2009 16:05:02
John Davis

Be careful that the electric interlock switch works to keep it from engaging in reverse. It can damage it severely.
John

Oct 31, 2009 23:20:46
GlenP

Yeah, John, I now about the damage caused by reversing if the OD's not disengaged. The manuals warn about it about every other page it seems. Where/what is the 'electric interlock switch'? I can't find anything by that name in the manuals.

Cheers,

Glen

Nov 01, 2009 09:07:29
applebj8

The overdrive can be engaged in 3rd or 4th gear. No minimum speed to my knowledge.
Try it, you'll like it! 3rd gear overdrive esp. good for 35 mph roads imho...

Nov 01, 2009 22:34:16
applebj8

The interlocks are simply switches mounted on the top of the transmission. They are actuated by the shifter rods within the trans.
Electrically they will not allow engaging the overdrive in any gear other than 3rd or 4th. There is another switch just like this mounted on trans too, it turns on reverse lights when shifted into reverse.

On the schematics here:
for '76 B it is refered to as "Transmission Interlock Switch" and is in series circuit starting at ground going thru o/d solenoid, the interlock, o/d on-off switch, and to power thru white wire which is hot only with key on.

Bentley simply calls it a "gearbox switch" - no mention of interlock...

Nov 01, 2009 22:51:21
GlenP

Thanks Jon. Different terms for the same component confuses the hell out of me. I did some digging in my manuals and found a drawing in the Haynes book. Apparently, you have to remove the rear transmission mount, drop the transmission, then remove the upper console to get to the switch. Is there a testing procedure for the OD system that can be done in the garage? I haven't found one and I'd like to test if before I take it out on the road.

Cheers,

Glen

Nov 01, 2009 23:39:31
applebj8

Glen,
Check trans fluid level first and then go for a drive. Try engaging the overdrive - you'll know right away if it's working as you should feel/hear the difference in engine rpm. Mine is engaged by pulling right hand stalk towards you, disengaged of course is the reverse - pushing it towards the dash.

Another way would be to put car up on jack stands (at least the rear wheels), and then start it up and engagne the overdrive while in 3rd or 4th gear and watch the tachometer to see if engine drops about 500 rpm. If it does, then o/d is working and you're golden.

Good luck and good find!

Nov 02, 2009 02:09:36
Mick from Scotland

if you do use the up on jack stands trick to see if you overdrive works, ensure there isn't anything in front of you, such as a friend, dog, or your house, just in case. I recommend testing on the road as described, much safer.

Nov 02, 2009 23:21:22
GlenP

Thanks Jon. I keep re-reading the manuals (gettin' kinda loopy now) and I found the jack stand test as part of a pressure check.

Mick, I'll clear a path and some chocks to the front wheels if I go the jack stand route. Some AF habits never die...

Cheers,

Glen

Nov 11, 2009 22:37:30
GlenP

OK, an update...

IT WORKS!

Got everything done on my To Do List #1 and took the car out for a drive. Hit 40 mph and engaged the OD. There was a mild hesitation as the revs dropped about 500 rpm or so. No loud bangs, clunks, or other odd noises, no parts scattering across the pavement, no oil spewing out from under the car.

My next issue is to get the header off the steering column. PO (or his minion of darkenss) installed a new header, but it's right up against the steering shaft and wearing a bright shiny ring around the shaft itself. You'd think he'd noticed that. You can feel it throught the steering wheel.

And so it goes.

But, hey... IT WORKS!

Cheers,

Glen

Nov 12, 2009 07:50:01
wa6rxm

There's a lot of truth in this statement.

I was generally happy with my (fairly recent) MGB purchase, although I didn't question EXACTLY WHEN many of the mechanical improvements were done. The PO had owned the car for many years, and listed a number of mechanical jobs done (valve jobs, piston re-ringing and re-bore, etc...) but these all turned out to be not very recent, and in some cases had to be re-done following my purchasing the car.

I probably should have questioned the PO more closely on this - might have gotten the car for a lower price than what I paid.

On the other hand, the cosmetics were excellent (nice new(er) paint job, complete interior re-do, etc...) so that made up in part for the money I had to spend on mechanical stuff.

Google
 
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