New Member + Old 1972 MGB = Happiness/Sadness

Well, the adventure begins. Greetings to all. My father, who will turn 90 this year, finally could not physically keep up with getting in and out of, and maintain his 1972 MBG. He bought it around 1980, when I was in High School, and while it was not a daily, it was a weekly driver, and he took it on many long trips. He didn't want the old girl to be neglected so he asked my brother and I to take it off his hands. He originally had a BRG 1967 MGB, wire-wheel, etc., that he had to give up, probably because of me, since I was around 3-4 at the time he owned it, and needed room for the kids.

About 2 months ago, I drove it down from the Smokey Mountain area of NC, unluckily in a hard rain storm. ( bad timing ). I fully expected the entire time ( over a 100 mile ) trip, for a breakdown, or wet distributor cap, etc. However, she drove perfectly, ( except for the rainstorm inside from the old seals at the windshield ) and rested in my brothers garage, while we celebrated the move with whiskey and cigars.

My brother and I were going to share it, and share the cost of the repairs, minor restoration, but his Harley took too much of his garage, ( and money ;) so as of this weekend, she is all mine.

So this last weekend, on a beautiful, sunny 70 degree day, I had a friend give me a ride to bring the B here to my part of the world. I took the top down, gave the engine the once over, checked the fluids, tires, and such. She started up immediately. What a great sound. I noticed 1 tire was a bit low in pressure, so I decided to take her for a quick 10 minute trip to get air, before the 90 mile trip home. As before, on the other trip, she drove great, and her speedometer actually worked, without even the need to tap the face gently, to get the needle loose. Oil pressure good, temp good, check, check, check.

Stopped, filled the tire with air, and started her back up. Fired right up, and about 1 minute into the drive back, I heard what started to sound like a rapid metallic spinning gear/grinding noise. Sounded like it was coming from the transmission, directly below the gear shift. Backed off the throttle, shifted into neutral, to see if the noise would stop, get louder, etc. Coasted for about 100-200 yards, and the noise went away, lessened. Decided ( probably bad idea ) to shift into third, to see if it was the clutch/tranmission giving up the ghost. Seemed like the car was loosing power, and I swear the sound stopped being metallic and it sounded like a belt broke, and did the old tell-tell, flap, flop, flap. ( the belt is not broken by the way ). Turned off the engine, and coasted to a stop.

Called the brother and AAA. Both got there at the same time. AAA flat-bedded her to my destination, about 82 miles, and she is resting in the garage.

Downside, is that she won't even try to start, no lights, no horn. The Red Alternator light came on 1 time for about a second, and then nothing. No starter, no solenoid, no fuel pump sound.

Everything above ( the no start ) is a pretty common theme/thread, and with a quick search I found a ton of info here from you fine folks, about troubleshooting the no-starting.

What has got me puzzled is what on earth was making that sound, before she died. Never heard a sound like that in any other car, and I have had a water pump go out while driving in a BMW, and an alternator whine, etc., but this was a new one. Hard to explain, but I was wondering if anyone had any thought of what to look for.

Any ideas? If so, shoot.

In the meantime, greetings to all, and I hope to track down this mystery, and get her back running. Downside is that there is a lot of frame, body ( underside ) rust ( she lived up in the mountains of NC, and while she probably didn't see snow, she got her share of salt )

Cheers.

Will Spencer

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Picture attached is from a few years ago, in my Dad's garage.

Will, where are you located? You probably have someone close that could help you look at it, provided, of course, there is still some whisky and cigars available:)

Welcome - from another newbie

For the electrical issues, I would put the battery on charge and start looking for loose and corroded wires, Nice looking car. Welcome.

Welcome Bill !!! :-)

I'm feeling like there are two issues.

You didn't say that the noise was road speed related or that there was a vibration involved but if either applies I the first place that I would look would be at the drive shaft universal joints.

You didn't say whether or not there was a noticeable change in gear selection but if there was look at the lube level. Dip stick in top of the transmission accessible through a big rubber plug behind the radio sort on the passenger side.

The non-start could very easily be poor cable connections at the battery. Take all off, the ground side on the left battery first, and clean the living fool out of all of them and the battery posts. If the terminals have been replaced with clamp-on types toss them and use new ones. While you do that, clean the fibers of the cable. First use a petroleum solvent to get the bad grunt off and then wash that down with a brush and soapy water. Finish up with a bath of vinegar. You should see clean copper before clamping the new ends on. Steel wool and/or a pocket knife to clean the posts, followed by the vinegar bath.

If the batteries have caps check the acid level. Fill with distilled water to just under the opening tube.

Then put a 1 or 1.5 amp trickle charger on them and leave it overnight. Don't let it just sit there forever as, even with a low charge rate, the fluid will be boiled away and the batteries will be ruined.

Thats for starters. If you find something else wrong under the car bring it on.

Jack

Any chance a battery cable got caught on the drive shaft? Its a long shot but might explain the change in noise and slowing of the car and now your no start issue. Welcome to the MGE. If you are near Monroe NC i can assist. Bob

Yeah, the loss of giddy-up and now totally dead battery could be symptomatic of a bad alternator, battery, or battery cables. (Robert has an interesting thought about the battery cable being caught up underneath.) The two issues aren't necessarily related, otherwise. Follow Jack's suggestions - he's Da Man on these cars.

Welcome aboard!

Of course you did look to see if the fan belt is still there, didn't you :)

Thanks to all for the quick and detailed replies. I helps not to feel alone trying to figure this out.

Jack. I see you are in Blowing Rock, NC. I was born, raised in Boone, NC. The MG that we are talking about lived in Boone, since 1980 ( hence the rust ;) ). I have read many of your post, and sort of noticed, that you appear to be the one with the answers, in most cases.

All: I am in Raleigh, NC . ( I will create a signature too, when I can get more creative )

Bob: I was thinking battery cable too, driveshaft, due to the weird mix of symptoms, and the noise. The strange sound, well it really sounded like something wrapped around 'something' and hitting, kawakata, kawakata ( I am almost embarrassed to write that, but I did ).

By the way, I am not an auto-mechanic, ( surprise ), but I am prepared for the long haul, as a connection to my Father, and I really love the car. I did go out and buy the Bentley Manual, the Haynes Restoration Manual, and a few more.

Dad had mentioned he had replaced the battery, in the last 6 months, but I have been busy at work since the breakdown, and have not had any real time to start tracking down the culprit, hence my cry for help. I figured you guys ( gals if you are out there, but my Mother never liked the MG, too much wind for her hair and hard to get into ----no wonder Dad and her didn't get along ) could probably help me narrow it down.

I was going to suggest a variation of the driveshaft around the wire: what if the rear u-joint broke and was whacking the battery? Perhaps broke the case and dumped the acid? Other than the broken cable theory, that is the only way I can explain the loss of electrons.

Pete

I'm also betting that either something has caught on the driveshaft and/or a U-joint issue. The bolts on the U-Joint have been known to come loose, so it may be a very simple fix. I would definitely get it looked at before attempting to drive it any further.

Basil. Yes, fan belt intact....;)

Welcome William, there are a lot of board members from NC. Get up with the Raliegh group I'm sure the would love to help.
Bill here in Thomasville

Welcome to the crowd. Give the guys at Flying Circus in Durham a buzz. They have been helpful to me a couple of times, plus just nice to talk to.

http://www.flyingcircusenglishcars.com/

Welcome aboard. Sounds like your ready for some therapy!

Thought about this a bit more. Re-read the post and note that you say the battery was changed six months ago. I do not believe in coincidence, so am going to suggest that soemthing bad happened with the battery. Maybe the metal braket failed and you were dragging the thing by the cable? Have you looked to see if the battery is still there?

Pete

Hand brake cable < ??

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I did take the rear carpet out, and remove the access cover. The battery is in the well behind the Passengers seat, and both top post cables were connected ( neither torn loose ) to the battery. Have not ( work in the way ) had time to get under the car to trace the condition of the other ends of the Positive, Negative cables and/or ground wire.

Will start with a total battery removal, clean the post, connections, replace end clamps as necessary and have the battery tested.

My dad was always a bit frugal, so I am not sure if the battery was the best one for the job, so to speak.

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Hand brake felt secure, and regular brakes work fine.

Thanks. I had found the folks at Flying Circus via a Google Search, and wrote them an E-mail about a month ago, just to say hello.

On Monday, after the breakdown, I e-mailed and I called Toby, and he and I have played phone tag, but I got the impression they are sort of covered up, work wise. Right now I would have to tow/flat bed the car to them, which is not a huge issue, but a bit of a pain. I had originally thought of driving it over for a look-see, and get them to give the old girl the once/twice over, to assess the condition.

Do please keep us informed as this one is kinda off the chart.

Peter

Welcome, I bet you will be up and running very soon.

Be sure to look at the DOT date code on your tires just to be sure they are upto snuff too. Good tread doesn't mean a whole lot anymore!

Plenty of MG folks in the triangle, I have no doubts you will find lots of help in short order.

That is one thing about MG folks, they just help and show up when you need them!

Great looking car, and very nice story about your dad. Thanks for sharing that!

Welcome from Concord NC!!!

If the cable came of the end at the starter, things would look "normal" back at the battery end, but as you say, a quick trace of the wire may answer some questions. That and a simple multi-meter / test light will come in real handy.

Again, welcome. Grant

Be sure to look at the ground strap that is attached right at the end of the transmission. Maybe the source of the sound under the shifter and it would also help explain the loss of power.

Well, after a long time off, and a long nap in the Garage, ( the car not me ) I have had time to get back to the MGB.

1. Totally replaced entire ground wire/negative cable and connection, and bolt to body. Used a pre-soldered wire connection. Cleaned both ends to shiny new.

2. Positive battery cable was the clamp style, and was basically old and completely loose. Weird part is that it looks like it ( the clamp ) had arced or something, because some of the lead had melted, like hot solder wire, small drip coming down, from the clamp bolts onto top of battery.

3. Totally replaced positive end clamp, with new. Cleaned existing wire to starter ( did not have time to check starter end yet ).

4. Totally removed battery from car. Took to Auto parts store. Had it tested. Passed with flying colors. Hooked back up.

5. Red Ignition/Alternator light comes on steady and bright. Head lights now work. Fuel gauge works.

6. Tried to start. Only get what sounds like a solenoid, fast clicking. Brrrbbbupt, Brrrbbpupt.

Going for connections on the Starter and Relay next, I assume. Other than clean and check for tightness, is there any other obvious culprit.

Hope you had a great winter. Getting anxious to getting her back running for the Spring.

Cheers.

Welcome William, I'm also a newbie . you will find a ton of info in this forum , I know I have.

Was the battery clamped down? There is the potential for the positive front terminal to touch ground if the battery shifts causing electrical issues up to and including the battery blowing up.

Not sure I like the looks of that. Usually the rear cable is the one that goes to ground and the front one comes from the starter. More than once I've seen a red ground cable because that is what the parts store has that fits. Check and make sure the red cable does not go straight to the body.

William,
I would suggest a insulator for the positive lead and a tie-down for the battery. No sense leaving either to chance. Keep us posted on the progress, you'll get there.

PS: I have your car's twin! Blue interior and all.

Hi William and Welcome,

The cable on the negativet post looks badly corroded...I'd get rid of that to start.

First, NICE CAR!!:) I've got a "73 GT in Harvest Gold ( black interior ).

I ( nearly ) know the feeling of having your Dad's car, I will be getting my dad's car ( was his Mum's car before that ) in a few years time.

Now you have the starter going brrruuuuppp brrruuuuppp, might be a flat battery ( or not totally flat but not enough charge ). I know you got it tested at the shop, but that was most likely an unloaded test, not a loaded test.

Best of luck.

This place is rich with knowledge and sometimes, persnickety advice as well - nevertheless - you'll prosper from your experience here, I sure have. What's up Basil and Terry!

You have the battery hooked up backwards, the red cable (although the wrong color) should go to the negative battery post. Unfortunately it might have dusted the alternator, too, so you'll have to check it. It is an easy mistake for someone not real familiar with MGs and I seen several Bs where that same cable was used for a ground because the parts house doesn't carry a black cable that same length for some reason.

So the battery gets plopped in the bin and the cables hooked up according to their colors, which is backwards in this situation.

Wray:
I thought the same at first,and have been hovering in the background.But in the first picture you can see the larger post goes to the black,the lead terminal is usually larger on the positive. The last picture confirms it though,it is a dual terminal battery(farmers battery) and the red cap is still in the positive side post,which was my other concern if that cap is removed the side post can ground. By the way William the AC Delco is a decent battery although it not the correct one for the
MGB,I don't know what Delco calls it,but Interstate would call that a 75DT,Mg should be a 26 series. When u get a few things sorted out,look in to putting in a cutoff switch,there is some good posts. If you have a heavy set of jumper cables,bypass the cable from the battery to the front by putting one clamp on the starter post and put the other end on the + battery post,do the starter end first and make sure it doesn't ground and then attach to the battery,and then try it and see if it will turn over,try the same thing with the negative from negative post to a clean spot on the body,if that doesn't work. My guess is one of the 2 will work.
John

John, I looked at the picture for a while and could have swore the black cable was on the negative terminal, the sign on the battery sure looked like a minus to me. Sorry for any confusion.

Hi Wray:
I originally thought the same and was going to post,that the cable was probably looped and caught in the driveshaft,but I had the advantage of being able to compare it to a Interstate dual post.
William:
I sell Interstate,we call the dual post,farmer batteries,because when we get a farmer in here looking for a battery they always want the battery for 1/2 dozen different applications,so they always buy the dual post.
I would think 4 gauge would be heavy enough,give it a try.
John

Well, the status update, sort of interesting history.

Found the original Owner's name, etc. Car was bought on 5-25-1972, at Harry's Cadillac-Pontiac, Asheville, NC by a lady in Charlotte, NC. Found the original Service Record book, with most of the records up to 1976. The lady must have been a daily driver, put some miles on it, as it had 44,588 mils in 1976.

My Dad had the paper receipts from since 1981, when he bought the car. It had 65,000 miles on it when it got it. It has 123,000 on it now.. I went through all of his records, and started an Excel Spreadsheet of what work was done, when, by who, and the cost, etc. Sadly, most of the garages where he had the work done, did not fully list the mileage in each repair, so there are some gaps.

Seems that this old car has gone through at least 4 Starters, since 1981. Some were listed as 'used'.

I decided to get a new Lucas Starter Relay, since that was both a quick and easy replacement. Put in yesterday, and got the exact same, Brrruppt, Brrruppt, clicking sound. Thinking it is the solenoid on the starter.

Ordered a new starter also, so I am going to R+R that over the weekend.

Judging from what appears to be some lovely leaks, it is going to be a nasty but fun job.

Well, after a longer than I expected removal, I got the old starter out, cleaned all the connections, bright and shiny, and got the new starter back in, and she fired up, first, no second try. So after a long slumber, my Dad would be proud. His/my MGB is running again.

Of course, the radiator is leaking. But that is next weekend's job.

thanks for all the suggestions from you all.