Oil holes and crankshafts

Here some info from Steve S about two topics that Gary has been mulling over.

The oil holes:

When installed, the oil squirt holes of the connecting rods must face the side of the engine opposite the camshaft to cool the piston and lubricate the load bearing surfaces during the power stroke. Failure to do this will eventually result in extreme piston pin wear within the piston itself, plus create the very real likelihood of piston failure, not to mention increased bore wear as well. Positioning the connecting rods so that the oil squirt holes face the camshaft is not necessary as the camshaft receives excellent lubrication from both the pressure galleries in which it's journals spin and residual oil flowing down the pushrod bores from the rocker arm assembles, plus oil sprayed from the main and rod end bearings at the crankshaft. Be aware that on some connecting rod bolts only one side of the bolt head is chamfered to provide sufficient clearance for the camshaft, so note this fact when you reassemble them. "

The crankshaft:

"The crankshaft with the best balance and wear characteristics is the flat-sided cast iron version found in the early 18 V engines. Although slightly weaker than the steel crankshafts, it is strong enough for the streetable enhanced-performance engine that is the goal of this article. "

FWIW

THANK YOU WRAY!!! Now who is Steve S??

E-mail on the way

Hey, do I get a cookie or something for being the first one to remember that the rod holes squirt oil up to cool the piston?

OK, now I get it too, I should have known because many inline OHC engines have oil holes in the rods too.The Jettup has piston oilers bolted into the main oil gallery, but the non turbo VW diesels had squirt holes in the rods.

How about an unwrapped Twinkie via snail mail ina plain brown envelope?

You do Bax!! I had never seen it before, and still wonder why it is necessary!!

Who knows if its NECESSARY, but since that area does get ungodly hot, and has the single most important part of the engine moving in it (the piston), it does seem like a good idea to keep it cool and happy.

Steve S from VA hangs out over at "the other" MG site.

MG Enthusiasts at:
http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs

He provides some of the most detailed responsives I've read.

Thanks Paul, I just e-mailed him!!

There ya go: "Failure to do this will eventually result in extreme piston pin wear within the piston itself, plus create the very real likelihood of piston failure, not to mention increased bore wear as well." Exactly what happened in your engine!Case Closed!!

Now, Gary, this IS what Tom meant: "The crankshaft with the best balance and wear characteristics is the flat-sided cast iron version found in the early 18 V engines."

<http://www.motoplay.co.uk/mgcc/sf/990303.htm>

Case closed??? I still don't have all the answers!!! I thought case was closed when I had all the information that I was looking for!! I don't doubt for one second that your quote is correct, but where did it come from??? 'flat sided cast iron version'???? What are you saying, is the newer one the forged one?? As far as I see it I still need more answers!! Seeing as you have it all figgered, draw me a picture or write me a list, what should I be using????? How high should the valve stems be above the bottom of the head?? Oh!! The rods in backwards DID NOT cause the wrist pin to fail!! There were obscure hammer marks on the rod!!!

I give up...JDW, David...you try to explain it!

Hammer marks or abuse marks after the wrist pin came loose & before you shut the engine Down?

NO!!! On the rod!! It is simple!! It was a twisted rod and the (crappy) machine shop got paid to recondition them!! It has hammer marks on it, it is twisted, everytime it came up, it was like a corkscrew!! It threw the wristpin against the c-clip and broke it!! The first time the wristpin never did come loose!! It was the end of the clip running back and forth inside the wristpin!! The first time it just broke an end off, the second time it took out the whole clip!! That is because of the positioning of the clip!! It hit in a definite location!! Like I said, I will be happy to send them to you!!
I do not like to be treated like an idiot!! Don't you think I have spent a lot of hours looking and thinking and trying to re- construct what happened in my mind??
Send me you address and I will mail them toorrow. That way, you can see for yourself! It will surprise you!!

I didn't know you could recondition rods that were twisted.
I can't imagine trusting them anymore, but.....
Burgess says you can do it. Special alignment rig, etc. Big lever bar to bend the twist back out of it. Sounds kinda iffy to me.
Moss has rods for $220.00 per set approx. as a comparison.

You are right there David!! They can't!! But they can still say they did!! :o)

dosen't it sound more like the rod came loose via pin failure and therefore piston(and rod) were like... bouncing around in there, basically going nuts but in such a limited space..... and this is what all the banged up "hammering" you see on the rod is from leading to complete failure of one cylinder then affecting the head, valves, lifters, you name it and leading to what brings us here to today to type about it? :)

NO!! 85% of the c-clip was still in place!! The rod cpuld not move!! The scenario that you describe is what i had expected to see!! Ask Chuck Ken, and JDW they saw the piston!!

Gary....you're right: the 1st machine shop screwed up...they took what you gave them -, unmatched rods that they were - & ruined them & your head & your rocker assembly & then they assembled everything in the shortblock incorrectly...the 2nd shop in Boise didn't catch the mistakes of the 1st shop because they were rushing to help get you back on the road.....

....Me? I've just been following this thing from the beginning & have been trying to help out where I could...probably in all the posts since the 1st head problems, I lost sight of the fact that this is completely the fault of the 1st crappy machine shop! Good luck with your new machine shop & your new engine!

Here's the log of posts I've been keeping so I could keep up with everything in my mind:

____IN/AROUND VICTORIA RIGHT AFTER CAR FINISHED______

4/27: pulled my engine today, cuz I'm ging to put the O/D unit in tomorrow. When I pulled the valve cover, there is gunk inthere that looks like never sieze!! My first thought was that it is the cam, ( because the only 2 valvesthat I checked were about 22 thou) but the more I think about it, is it possible that it is the rings breaking in?? It has the 3 compression rings, and it had a fairly heavy hone job! I think that first thing tomoprrow, I will take my dial indicater and check the cam!!

4/28: I pulled a rod and a main, and they were perfect!! I pulled a few lifters and they were too!! I guess it is just the crap from seaqting the rings, plus the assembly lube!!

5/1: OK, my car runs great most of the time, but everyonce and a while she starts to run rough!! I thought that maybe she was a bit rich, but I don't think so!! Anyway, tonite Alida and i were driving along and it started to run roough as could be!! She said 'man I don't want to walk home'!! Anyway then it backfired about three times, I looked down at the fuel guage and it dropped from about 1/4 to empty, and then started coming back up!! Then she flattened out and ran like a top?? I don't know if the fuel gauge is in the mix or not, but any ideas?? Should I start at the distributer or..................??????

5/6: I had to pull the motor back out, because the rear seal was leaking!!

5/7: Anyway, the backfire was a little different. It was a combinationd of die and run and die and run, so I couldn't figger it out!! It would run perfect for 10 or 20 miles, and then it would start dying, and it even backfired again. I would get out of the car, loosen the gas cap and it would be fine for a while!! I really didn't figger it was a airlock. but hey, it was working!! So, I thought about it and remembered that a couple of years ago Mr. Weimer had posted about a bad condensor!! So, I switched to the Petronix that I had been waiting to put in, and it runs great!! I have a Lucas high performance (whatever they call it) coil, but Tom had posted that he had trouble with that combo, so I was a little leary about putting it in!! Anyway, Tom Warren told me that he has run that combo for 15,000 miles with no problem!! So I stuck it in, and it runs great!! I burned off a little over one tankful of gas today, without one dying episode or one backfire!! I believe it was the condensor!! Now, there does seem to be alittle flat spot when I put the pedal down!! I have not set the timing properly

5/9: Went to Octagon in Vancouver today, my car was running pretty rough, and Colin managed to get it in and get a look at it!! He was able to perform some tests, like change out the cap and wires, put in points to bypass the Petronix and neither was the problem!! So he did a couple of other things and his mechanic tweaked the carbs a bit, and I reset the valves and I think we are just about there!!

5/13: .013 hot .015 cold?? Is anybody doing different?? I just talked to a guy I know and he told me .011 cold!!

5/18: Set the valves (again) and went for a 11/2 hour top down run!! Perfect!!

5/24: Okay, my car has been bunning pretty good, but I was having a hard time getting the valves set right!! I decided to pull the Rocker arm assembly off and take a look at it!! The #4 exhaust valve was the worst, so I gave it a wiggle and in wiggles considerably around!! I wiggle the rest of the valves, and all the intake are tight but 3 of the 4 exhaust are all over the place!! The top wiggles about 1/4 inch!!

Oh, I did find some brass in the oil pan last change!! I bet it was a bronze valve guide!!

Better take a close look at the rockers for those valves as well. If they are not square to the valve top, they could put some side thrust on the valve stems

I pulled the head, and it was ready to drop a valve!! 2-3000 miles on it!! Oh well, at least I don't have to pull the cam!! :o) At least I took it to a good shop this time, the guy looks at it and says 'early 'B'??? Now beat that!! Also he showed me that all the valve stem hights varied by as much as 3/16 of an inch!! He said the rockers were fine, but that they would re-surface them!

Yup, stock rocker assembly!! It was ready to drop out!! I would never have made it to your place, let alone St Loooooie!! If I did make it to your place, we would have spent the night changing the engine!! :o) Oh, it was 1/4 inch in the whole shaft!! In the guide it was only about .030!! (a spark plug gap) And I couldn't figger out why my oil was getting soooooo dirty!! There were no valve seals left!!
_______ON ROAD TO BOISE_________________

6/16: I just talked to Gary on the phone and he's at a gas stop in Idaho. Runnin a tad warm but should cool back down on the highway.

6/17: just talked to Gary and it seems he is about 45 miles out of Boise with a blown head gasket.

6/18: Gary has determined that he lost a piston, or some such thing.

OK, I read Steven's earlier post, and he talked to Gary, and said it was a wrist pin. Whatever that is...

6/19: Gary said it was just part of the C-clip on the wristpin, that broke off and took out his cylinder wall.
___________ON ROAD HOME FROM BOISE______________

6/23: Rebuilt engine in the car, and she seems to be running fine, but it is smoking!!!! I guess that the new rings haven't seated yet!! (I hope) Anyway, there was probably a quart of oil in the exhaust, so who knows!!! Anyway, she is smoking bigtime under load!!

Thanks guys!! Just pulled the plugs, #2 was fouled beyond belief!!! @!#$!!!!!!

6/24: We got up this morning and did a compression test. #1 is low, but came up some with oil added to the cylinder. 2-4 are within 3 lbs of each other, right around 145.
Gary's car was producing lots of oil fumes from the breather, so we capped of the pcv port, and ran a tube.
While we were getting oil and such, Jim Hanks and Dick Price were looking the car over, and came up with "He is running a non-vented filler cap". We pulled a new vented filler cap out of the stock, Gary put it on, and there is now no "blowby".
As for #2 loading up, we theorize that with where Gary has the pcv mounted, (Canadian 18v intake manifold) right above 1 and 2 intake, the oil was all going to the #2 since it had better draft.
With luck, #1 just hasn't seated in because of all the oil, and when he gets home and does the compression check, all will be fine. We also retorqued the head.
_________BACK HOME W/SAME PROBLEM__________-

6/25: Now i am totally confused!! I did a compression test on her this morning and #1- 125lbs, #2-145 lbs, #3-145 lbs and #4-145lbs. Okay, number one is weak, which I suspected, because it was weak a chris's yesterday! So, now I want to see if a valve got damaged when I lost the C-clip. Now I do it wet, using 5/30 oil. Here are the wet numbers #1-145, #2-over 300( pegged the gauge) #3-200 and #4, gauge pegged again!!

6/25: I used new pistons and a new block!! The notable thing is that the compression never came up to snuff!! It only came up to 145lbs!! The other notable fact is that is the cylinder that the C-clip and rings broke in!! They must have gone out the exhaust!! and the only thing that is common with the old engine is the head!!

6/25: Loma happened to think that the valve cover wasn't tightened down enough, so he have me some shims to put under the washers!! Obviously, before it was able to suck a little air under it!! It probaly didn't leak, because it was sucking enough air under it to counteract any leakage!!

Good thing I pulled the head!!! The %$#@!! thing did it again!!!! Dent in the fron and the back of #1!!! @##@&$$**!!!!!!!!

Did you follow my episode on the way to St Louis?? Well, it looks identical, but I don't have the engine out yet!! I just called Loma in Boise, and he was totally baffled!!!

Last time a piece of the C-clip busted off and banged back and forth thru the wrist pin until it got to the top!! It up the cylinder wall really good. This looks identical without a closer examination!! @###%**&$!!!!!!!!! I will go and pull the engine now! DAMN!!!!!!

There must be something wrong with the rod!!!! This time the whole bloody snap ring dissapeared!!! I put them together, Loma checked them when he put the rings on, and I checked them after he had put the rings on!! How is that possible???

6/26: all I did was replace the block and pistons! Everything else was the old stuff!

The $#@^&!!!!! rod looks bent!!! It looks twisted and bent, and the funny thing is that the first time the shop insalled it backwards, and I turned it around!! The clip busted on opposite sides!!! Bad rod, right???

It was same rod same crank!!

If it was a bad crank, it would show in bearing wear, and it doesn't!

And Yes, the rod was bent, and the funny thing is that it threw the clip on the same side both times!! I think that the machine shop should have picked it up the first time!! I know why we didn't in Boise, but that is totally different!!

The rod was twisted, that is what caused all the problems!! A decent machine shop would never have let it thru!!

It was the rod!!! No doubt in my mind!! It is tweeked and it showed at the machine shop!!!!

6/28: I noticed that on my rocker arm all the adjustment screws are out all the way.

7/1: Okay!! Maybe we are getting somewhere!! My point is that you absolutely can not mix and match the lifers and pushrods!! There would be a difference of approximately an inch and a half!!! When I originally got this engine, it was a mismatch of everything!!
I had the engine bored, line bored, crank turned, new cam bearings installed and the rods reconditioned, and the pistons installed (I had never seen pistons that did not need to be pressed on to the rod) and balanced. On the head, I had new bronze guides , new valves and seats and new springs! I bought a new performance cam and lifters and pushrods to match!!!
The machine shop let me down big time!!! Fist off they assembled the rocker assembly wrong and they did not replace all the guides!! Secondly, they obviously missed a twisted connecting rod!!!!
OKAY!!!! I think I just saw the light!!! I was wrong!! Here we are, the tappet adjustment is just about coming out down thru the top! That means that I am too short with the lifter train, cam or valves are not in far enough!!

7/6: I was thinking about a few things, and one of the biggest ones that has me puzzled is what are the oil holes in the rods for if they point away from the cam?? When my original pistons were installed on my original rods (bent one and all) they were done backwards!! I straightened that out in Boise, and of course I will do it correctly this time around, but why?? Why do the face away from the cam?? Oh, I just was checking them out and noticed that one of the rods (the bent one) has an oil hole on either side!!

7/7: No, they were not a matched set!!! They all look the same until you examine them real close and you will notice that there are 2 oil holes on the one that is bent!! It also has a slightly different numbering set-up on the sides

There are hammer marks on the rod in question!!

7/8: The wrist pin was totally intact!! It never moved in the piston!! Just a little end came off the c-clip and ran back and forth thru the wrist pin before it came out thru the rings and killed half the misquitoes in Boise!!

Thanks Tony!! I was gonna do that, but I didn't have 2 or 3 hrs free time!! Sometimes I wish I was a teacher!! :o)