on cooling and tony's comments....

in the below thread, tony was very structured in his comments that adding an external cooling fan to solve an overheating problem is a bad vice. tis quite true but it did make me think -- particularly since tony also mentioned the factory set-up is good enough.

is it really good enough? when searching for mgb heads, at least 40% of them are cracked if not more. when you need one they are more costly than gold.

external oil coolers were standard on many B's although i understand there usefulness is debatable.

i have a re-cored radiator, redone engine, new hoses, new iron pump and still i added a cooling fan in addition to the original.

so then, could i damage the engine because it runs "too cool" on the coolant side?

why so many mgb heads cracking?? i can never understand that--even the "premier" rebuild shop of MG in dfw has a pile of cracked ones. gets 100+ degrees here in rush hour traffic. or is the factory set-up just fine if the car is a weekend runner. Joe, you drive daily--thoughts?

When you hit 100' F, you only have about 100' to mess with!! If I lived there, (or Kamloops or Kelowna) I would run the lowest thermostat that I could get and see what happened!! If I needed it, I would add another fan! I just noticed that, although my 'B was sick, it ran about 100' over the outside temperature with all new stuff!!

It could be that those heads were finish machined before they cured long enough. Cast iron castings are in a state of stress for months after the process. Borgward of Germany use to rack up their block castings outside for 9 months before machining them. Head cracks on the outlside, like mine, are the result of something like that. Cracks on the inside are from gross overheating. What I don't get is why nobody is repairing those MG heads, they repair every other kind, aluminum and all.

People do John. But with extreme cracking, it takes some kind of oven process that I forget the name of. And it is expensive compared to finding another crack free head.

One needs a thermostat to get to optimum operating temp for the gases to burn efficiently. After that, it opens and the cooling system is supposed to keep the engine there.
Bs were meant to be driven not sit idling. I personally think that many cracked heads are due to negligence in maintenance, based on what the cracked heads I have seen look like compared to the uncracked ones. Take for example the 64 head; no cracks, though two pistons melted, but all the water galleys are clear. Compare to the 79 head that was spider webbed with cracks and had rust plugging nearly all of the water galleys. My point is, maintenance is important. Flush the engine periodically. Which reminds me that I haven't fllushed the 79 since I put the new head on.

I've seen it done. It's like a giant pizza oven with real thick steel plates where the pizza (head) is heated. All that is for is burning away all contanimates before the welding and stress relieving after the repair. It's not a big deal, they have to do that on all of them. If they're cracked 'way up in a port they can't be fixed, but cracks between the valve seats are a piece of cake, every day stuff.

Phil, I drive an MG over 50 miles everyday, and have for the past 23 years. I live in Memphis, Tn., and it get to 100+ degrees here as well. I just have thefactorynstalled cooling system, and haven't had a problem. Both my cars have the original head and my Midget has logged over 300,000 miles in its 31 year life spand. I can tell you the cracked heads that I have seen in my shop have been the results of stupidity. Someone knowing their car is running hot and they just keep on driving till the needle pegs and the water has boiled out. Part of the problem with the MG heads is the siamese exhaust port for two and 3. It causes more heat in that area.

You've got that straight Dude! During the 10 years I visited garages while selling auto parts every cracked head I saw was due to owner neglect. I had my block, head, and radiator boiled out, new water pump, 180 thermostat, flushed the heater core, and changed from dual factory fans to a single 14" puller 10 years ago and my temp guage has never gone over half way up. It gets 100F here too with high 90s being common in Summer.

MG's like all cars require proper maintenance...most never got it....if you go to the factory manual, you'll find lots of maintenance schedules that were never followed....now 30+ years down the road we're facing the results of DPO's...heck, as many as I've owned, I'm probably one of you guys DPO...I remember as a young guy I just drove the hell out of them....now, I maintain them properly....
....most of the horror stories about MG's (overheating, Lucas wiring, Zenith Stromberg carbs, &, yes, even rust) are cause by owners who either don't maintain them properly or put bandaids over the problem....yes, there are even factory maintenance requirements to keep an MG from rusting!

It was 95 here yesterday. I am not looking foward to next mo. It's ok once I get out of traffic and on the hwy, but in the stop and go the only thing running hot is my body.

I've been cutting firewood. That's hot. It's in the high 80s- low 90s. By one, I'm ready to be home, but when I get off the mountain and unload, I wish I was back up the mountain!

I have an exterior crack above #2 and #3, on my 71 bgt. The engine specialist who shaved and balanced the head last year, pointed out where the crack had been stitched some time in the past. I had some mild weeping of coolant, and slight overheating for a few months after the reworked head, and headgasket job. I've noticed that since driving it quite a bit this summer, that the weeping has stopped, it's never overheating, it's not using much coolant, and the plumes of white smoke don't appear when first cranked up. My engine man told me to keep a lookout for a good head. He said he couldn't predict how long the stitched crack would hold up with hard driving. The guy had never seen an MG head, but makes his living building and rebuilding a variety of dirt track racing motors.

As IO have said often, these cars are blacksmith technology, and that means you ahve to work on them.

That's one reason my Midget is still ticking. My brother bought it new, and between he and Dad it was well taken car of. I bought it from my brother in 80 and have done the maintanence on it including changing rod bearings every 50K.

Out of curiousity, have you ever had to frind that crank given that kind of maintenance with the bearings? My guess is no.

I have my 2 1/2 cords split and stacked, Chris. Cut it back in the fall, and split it early spring. Sure does look good stacked up under the shead.

I'll try to remember that and keep an eye out.

AMEN BROTHER!!!!! You are right Tony!! I wonder about the guy that got my '64!!! :o)

How many people opened the front fenders & cleaned them out at least once a year? How many dealers did that maintenance? None judging from the cars in my MG Graveyard.....but it sure keeps fenders from rusting through...& saves rockers & sills as well...
...did you ever wonder why MG carpets were snapped down? So they could be easily removed when they got wet....how many people did that...heck, today the upholstery shops (& some individual restorers) glue the carpet down.....NOT!
...don't get me started!

You mean grind, right chris????

I had to have the mains turned the last time when I heated her up. My crank man told me the crank was a little twiked and considering what I was doing to the engine he suggest I true it up and stress relieve it.

I wish that was all I needed! It does make a pretty picture to see a shed filled though. Here, you have to get it in the Spring to be sure you get enough of the best. Lots of people looking. I about threw my saw into the weed today when it quit one tree shy of a cord. Now, I carry a spare plug.

Along with flushing the hydrolic annually. I do it for my customers too.

F, G, what the guck do we care, eh?

Only buy a Husky!!!!! Stihls suck!!! I have had them both, and I never change the plug in my Husky!!!!!

HUH???? :o)

And during the winter, I pull my carpets and stow in the trunk.

That's a lot of wood. I have 3 rows 30 feet long 6 ft high. I use it to heat my house too. My adverage gas bill is $20. Of coarse it may get colder longer where you are.

I drive mine in the winter.

I have orphan saws, all hand me downs as in the family tradition. (Macs and a Homelite from 1961). Stihls are all that is available here.

We use 3-4 cords a year just in the house. No gas. Burning season can start as early as Sept., and continue until June.

So do I. But I don't get mud, snow, and water on the carpets. :)

When we heated with wood, 4 cords!! No gas, no oil and always a hot house with windows open unless it was an occasional snow storm!! We had 3 feet for 2 weeks in '96!! A lot of roofs broke under that one!! We do live in the banana belt of Canada!!

DAMN, I guess you do need a little more. Do you have a wood splitter. I bought one from Northern Hydrolics 2 years ago and man is it worth it. I have the type that will go virtical or horizonal. I had a neighbor cut down a 100 year old oak. I hooked my splitter up to the van went over and split it up into pieces I could load and haul to the house. I would have never been able to get that wood with out it. I did have to hand split the trunk small enough to get it to the splitter. It was 4" across.

Good for you, Chris. That's what they were built for. Not storage.

That is a crime Tom!!! 4' Oak???

Oak is WAY different than what I normally cut, which is Douglas Fir or Western Larch (Tamarack). The Larch is straight grain, and when dry, splits with the sound of breaking glass. I hand split all my wood as I can split it just as fast as I can using the ram, and need the exercise. I don't have the wrestler physique that I used to have.
I noticed this year that I don't have the air I had last year just putting the rounds into the truck.

It would be a crime not to use it! Oaks that big come down hard. We had two people hit at the Fair last year by a falling oak that was only 2'. Since they were hippies, there was no discernible damage.

Some of this Oak you wouldn't split with a mall. Lots of limbs and knots. Gary, the guy had to cut it down. A limb fell out of it and crushed his car. It was right next to his house, and the insurance company told him they wouldn't cover any more damage from it. It had some bug problems too.

I'm not rich enough to own one to store. Building and selling allows variety though. When these 5 are gone, I'm going to build one for me.

Coming from the 'not too ex-hippie'??? :o)

HMMM! Smoking??? Nah, that would never make a difference, right chris??? :o)

OK Tom!! I'll let it go this time :o), but is there no portable sawmills over there??

Well yeah! I'm a coordinator there now, which makes me responsible. No one told me that when I took the position. Believe you me, responsibility is not all that it is cracked up to be, especially when you run herd over a crew of 300 unresponsible hippies who are "volunteers", which means that they can tell you to stuff it if you don't couch your desires in the most pleasant form possible.

You didn't know that??? :o) Now you are smarter!! :o) I would be in jail if I was a teacher!!

A junkie is a junkie is a junkie. We pick our path and walk along until we find the bushes block it. With luck, you bust on through. Sort of llike with the cows a few days back.

Yah, but you had quit!!!

Well said Tony - as a Brit I get sick of hearing about how bad Lucas electrics are - all they take is a little care. Same with all MG's Jags, Austins, whatever - with a little care and maintenance they will run a long time. However, about 80,000 on an engine before a rebuild sounds about right but if the engine was maintained, it should only need bearings, new oil pump, and maybe boring. I also agree that most of the head cracks are poor maintenance - and yes, they are repairable but they do need to be pre, and post weld heat treated - that's why it is always expensive to have cast iron welded.