orange peel surface on paint

Howdy folks. I searched for "orange peel" in the forums but found 0 posts.

In an attempt to repair a patch of ultra-violet damaged fender paint, I (unfortunately) sprayed a hefty patch of DupliColor on the finish (after trying many many recommended UV repair tips which were unsuccessful).

The DupliColor paint is over a year old, and on solid paint underneath. But it's got an obvious "orange peel" surface.

How can I sand down this orange peel? Can someone point me to a step by step on this? I've looked at JDW's paint pages, http://theautoist.com/body_repairs.htm , but I'm not able to really understand how he dealt with smoothing orange peel on a large area of a curved surface (front fender top). Wet sanding with 800, then 1000, then 1500, then 2000 isn't working for me - but then I don't have any background in how to do that.

By the way, I'm proud and happy to say my B runs *great*.

Thanks.
Tom

Others will comment, but I have only wet sanded on fairly flat surfaces so far. If 800 didn't cut it, it must be thick paint, or extremely tough stuff.

I don't know if this applyies to wet sanding, but I have seen a buddy use a special sanding tool, that looks like a long flexible, but wide yardstick for sanding around contours. Don't recall what that tool is called.

wanna see some cool orange peel?
Chris' BGT

I suspect that the spray-bomb duplicolor may not react well to wet sanding. What do you mean when you say that it isn't working for you? I would think that 800 grit would quickly sand through the duplicolor, so if you're not even knocking down the orange peel something is wrong. I would usually start with 1200 grit. Go to a autobody supply place and get good sandpaper (I like mequiars). Get a pan and fill with water and a drop of liquid soap to act as a lubricant. Take a few sheets of 1200 and soak them for about 15 minutes prior to use. Get a small flexible sanding block and wrap a piece of sandpaper. I like to use a spray bottle to wet the area I'm going to sand (also put a drop of soap in the bottle). Use straight strokes and alternate the stroke directions. It's really hard to judge your progress when the surface is wet, so get a good quality bondo spreader from the autobody store. After you've sanded for a bit use the spreader to squeegee the water off the surface. When the paint looks dull and the orange peel is gone you're ready to move to the next step of 1500, then 2000, then buff, then polish.

I got this technique from Kevin Tetz's Paintucation video on color sanding and buffing. Good video. Check out www.paintucation.com

Deniz - that is *exactly* what mine looks like. Same color even.

Are you doing anything to smooth it down?

Ryan - does that sanding block (I assume rubber) technique work on a curved surface? The rubber block I tried wasn't flexible at all, and left a "track" on the fender curve. Maybe I use too much (or too little?) pressure?

Also, sorry to be unclear on the "isn't working for me". As it's on a curved surface, the 800 *will* smooth it down, but it's not at all even. So I go to 1000, then 1500, etc., but don't have an evenly smoothed surface. I don't have a clue how to evenly sand on that curving fender. And after the different grits, I assume I then use some kind of compound?

Thanks for the tip on the soaking the sandpaper for 15 minutes; I'd only been dipping the paper in the water, hand sanding, then dipping again. And the "smears" it leaves may well be because I can't really see how it's going until it's dry. Maybe the bondo spreader will help.

Thanks guys.
Tom
PS - Deniz, your website landscape pics are fantastic. Bravo.

The pad is soft and spongy, probalby about 2.5" x 5" or so. It's just to keep from putting finger grooves in the surface. It doesn't serve the same "blocking" purpose as the harder blocks used in bodywork. Thanks for the better description of your problems. I really suspect that the paint is the culprit. Most spray bomb paints just don't sand well. If I were you, I'd go talk to an autobody place that can fill a spray can with good quality paint to match your code.

I finish up by sanding the whole car with 1500 paper on a short piece of paint stick just like in that article. I don't know how many cars I've done that way and it always works. None of them ever sanded themselves, I had to work a every one of them. Few things that are worthwhile are ever easy.

If the orange peal is very bad it may be impossible to color sand it without going through. What were the spraying issues that caused it? Here is an excelent paint and body forum:

http://www.autobody101.com/forums/

If your orange peel is that bad you're getting some kind of reaction that's causing it.

I assume that it is duplicolor out of a CAN? right?

You may have to just sand it completely off and then SEAL the surface to stop the reaction and repaint it.

If 800 and repeated steps aren't cutting it, then you have no other choice.

One thing I want to point out before you put too much work into it. As JDW put it, most things that are worth it, don't come easy.

Before spending a bunch of time on the duplicolor, you should know that the duplicolor WILL FADE extremely fast. There's no way to get around it. I suggest getting the part sealed and then have your auto parts store mix a pint of "real" paint and get a little spray bottle and spray it yourself. Most times you spend MORE money messing around with cheap paint only to be unhappy and unsatisfied.

There's absolutely no reason to be afraid of automotive quality paint that has UV protection in it. It's easy to spray, a pint won;t cost much money at all, they can also give you a sealer that will help.

I also suspect that you may have applied too much paint to a surface that wasn't ready.

Good Luck

brian

Tom,,,,,,,,,Check out the PPG web site. Real good info on paint defects.
<http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase1/frmSelectDefectGroup.asp>

Brian - yep - it was DupliColor sprayed from a can. I think the trouble was that it sprayed too "coarse" and left the orange peel surface. Original paint was smooth, but UV faded.

Should I just start with wet sanding at 800 or 1000, then move up to finer grits? Do I end with some kind of paste compound? Then finish with a polish?

This is all new to me, obviously. My basic concern is that I'm doing it all wrong - it takes about an hour (using various grits) to just get 2 or 3 square inches relatively smooth, and even then it's blotchy and streaked. I don't know how much pressure to use when hand sanding, so maybe that's another problem. I'm not looking for some showroom finish - just trying to smooth out that orange peel surface.

Argh.
Tom

Jim - the PPG site is an excellent resource, but when I hit their "orange peel" page, the fix is "Rub out the orange peel, compound and polish".

I've got the idea ... but my old brain needs a little more detail!

Thanks.
Tom

JDW has said the same thing. Flat sand it with 1500. It would be good to wet sand and use lots of water.

It is almost like he is a writer for PPG. They lack his sense of humor tho.

His humor is like my father inlaw's.
I wouldn't spend the $$$ on something one and he said " If I owned a cow it would be trained it to fart into the rain barrel so that I skim the grease and sell it"
One time I was having a problem doing some thing and he said " You are contrary to mother nature"

Tom, The problem with your paint is that it is still soft. Spray paint from a can
is probably enamel and does not include a hardener. The paint will stay
soft for a long time. As a reference PPG AE (Acrylic Enamel) paint if used with a
catalyzed hardener can be sanded after 1 week. If used with no hardener the
paint should not be sanded for 6 months.

Ken
1971 MGB

Ken - thanks for the comments. I sprayed the DupliColor "patch" over a year ago, so I figure it's hardened by now. The paint underneath was original (1975), same color (black). I need to find a detailed explanation of the grits to use, the techniques, the tool(s), the hand pressure, etc., as well as what to do after the sanding (rubbing compound, polishing compound, etc.).

Tom

When I color sand I use 1200 ( not to say 800 or 1000 won't work) with a paint stick or sanding block, then I use heavy duty rubbing compound , then Mcquires #3 machine glaze ( you normally have to source this at a paint supply shop, most auto parts store don't have it) I use a electric buffer for the compound and Mcquires, but you can do it by hand if you have plenty of elbow grease.

I wet sand with a paint stick, but not one of those Home Depot ones, they cup and warp...YUCK!

Need to find a good ones from a paint shop or paint store. Whilethe paint stick stays pretty flat along its width, it usually flexes well enough to accept the long flowing contour lines along its length.

Thanks to all of you - your suggestions are magic ...

Wet sanded with 1000 grit, rinsed. Used hand, wet sponge, and rubber block.
Wet sanded with 1500 grit, rinsed.
Rubbed with DuPont #7 rubbing compound, rinsed.
Rubbed with 3M Perfect-It II rubbing compound.
Finished with Turtle Wax Super Hard Shell polish.

(If you have something better than the Turtle Wax, please recommend.)

Can't believe it. Took lots of time, and my arms got lots of exercise ... but it worked. Pics don't show much difference, but trust me - it's a *lot* better.

Thanks guys.
Tom