OT: Identity Theft - be careful!

Heads up for all of us. Last night the hubby and I were sitting on the deck when we received a telephone call from Western Union. We had the speaker phone on and the lady identified herself as being from Wester Union and said she wanted to vertify a transfer of funds in the amount of $550.00 from our account. She then provided us with the last four numbers of a debit card and our dates of birth. This particular card, and asssociated checks, are for a small business we own and are stored in a safety deposit box in another bank. We don't have any of the numbers here at home. At first we thought it was a scam until she asked if we wanted those funds blocked. The hubby questioned her as to why she would call to vertify and she stated that the person requesting the trasfer sounded very nervous and his voice did not sound like one in our age bracket. We did ask her to block it, even though we still were not sure it was us, and she said she would and also suggested we contact our bank first thing in the morning. This morning we went to the bank which handles that business account. There were numerous purchases from Roanoke, Va to Greensboro, NC in the amount of $16,282.00 from 6 July 06 to yesterday. Many were at Walmarts, Stereo Stores, and Best Buy stores. Needless to say a police report has been filed and I do wish we had that lady's name to thank her or that account would have been depleted.

The reason I decided to post this is because that account has never been used on the internet and we can't ever recall using the debit card. Checks have been used for expenses over the years but in this case a debit card was used by someone. We never dreamed this could happen to us so I'm sure it could happen to any of you.

Isn't it a shame that things like this can happen and the technology is out there to duplicate a debit card and it can be used without your knowledge until a bank statement arrives. Has this happened to any of you?


Your turn :(

I haven't had this happen to me, but I've seen lists of credit/debit card numbers for sale on the internet where the credit/debit cards had purportedly not even necessarily been issued yet! Anyway, this can happen to anyone, but if you haven't used your cards anywhere and haven't given out your account number to anyone, I'd suspect your issuing bank (one of their employees is a criminal).

Kelly

Naomi: Those debit cards are a blight on humankind! I'm sorry to hear of that problem. We had a similar problem with a credit card no. of ours being used by someone else recently. That's not nearly as serious as a debit card, though. AL Bradley

And that OF COURSE is JUST what you needed while recuperating from the recent unpleasantness. Sorry! :-( Jack

A perfect example of why I don't have a debit card. I have an ATM card and my credit cards. I prefer NOT to have Visa/MC access to my personal bank account!

Naomi. Glad someone tipped you off. We shred everything yet worry about the same. Its just amazing they got numbers you hardly ever use!

I don't have a debit card, I don't have an ATM card, I refuse to do any online banking.

This sort of thing makes me sick, and to know it's happened to a friend absolutely infuriates me. I'm really sorry to hear this Naomi.

Does a session of public drawing and quartering for a punishment make sense?

I saw that in a Queen Elizabeth the First edition on the History Channel. Really, really gruesome! I suspect that sort of thing would curtail identity theft rather quickly.

Jack

Naomi - Thanks for posting about your experience. I am quite sensitive to the problem and make a practice on shredding anything headed for trash that has our name or any account information on it. But the card holder cannot protect from someone intent on getting account numbers. I just got a letter from credit card issuer saying that an unauthorized individual may have gained access to our account. They are issuing us new cards.

For anyone considering a shredder - Get the best one you can afford. At least 12 sheet capacity and a confetti cut for greatest security.

I work for a credit union...and I have debit cards, credit cards, online banking, etc., and have no concerns.

Yes, stuff does happen - most often when a merchant's database is compromised. Considering the huge number of transactions that are made, the fraud rate is incredibly small.

I think it's funny that people consider paper checks "safe" as opposed to debit cards. Whoever has access to that check has access to your personal information (name, address, etc.), your bank's routing number, your account number - and a perfect copy of your signature! It doesn't take a very high tech criminal to make use of that information for identity theft purposes...and then there's the issue of check washing to be concerned about. IMHO, electronic transfer of funds is safer in the long run. Sure, if something happens it'll be a PITA - but your bank or credit union WILL cover your loss.

If you want to be really safe, deal with cash only. Of course you can't get that replaced if it's lost or stolen. And you'll have a wonderful experience if you ever have to deal with a lost money order.....

The Collin County police busted two waiters in our area recently. They bought card scanners on the internet, which are about the size of a pack of cigarettes, and were using their scanners to record the information off of every debit & credit card used to pay for the food where they worked. They were selling the information to a group of identity thiefs in our area.

If you don't have one yet, go to an office supply store and buy a decent shredder. Anything you trash with any personal information, and all credit card solicitations, get shredded in our house.

I check my accounts on a daily basis, via a secure online site

I neglected to mention in my earlier posting on shredders that the better confetti shredders will also shred credit cards. A good 12 to 18 sheet model sells for around $100 to $150. They are on sale in our area every week. I got my 18 sheet model from Staples for $100.

Joe, you're absolutely right about online transactions being safer... After all, the highest risk is when a merchant or bank has an internal employee committing the fraud - in other cases, it's next to impossible for an outsider to get that information.

My reason for not having a debit card is not that I'm worried I'll lose my money (and not get it back), but rather that the additional benefits of having Visa/MC access to my account are outweighed by the risk posed (in terms of lost time and pain) by someone gaining access to my account via this method.

I know that my bank will always put the money back eventually, it's just that I've had too many friends who had to go through this (and wait several days before things were back on track) to think it's worth it just for visa/mc access to my account.

That's not to mention that I love the float that I get from using the credit cards since I earn more than 4% in my bank account! With how much I spend on credit cards, that adds up to about 15-25 days of float on several thousand dollars ($2 for every thousand or so). Not much money, but it's still something.

Kelly

If you have NEVER accessed your online bank access (depending on the bank) it may be less secure then if you did. All they need is some basic info, they put in their e-mail for contact info, and it can be accessed. NOW once you have accessed your account online you can set your password and it becomes more secure.

To make it more secure log in incorectly 3x (of course depending on the bank) and your ONLINE account is locked until you work with customer service. I just leave mine locked.

Joe: I believe there's a statutory limit of loss of $50 for misuse of a credit card, but no such limit for a debit card. Therein lies the difference to the holders of same. I'll have to say that my bank (Wachovia, BTW) was very diligent and caught the fraudulent usage and called me immediately. I had replacement credit cards before the end of that week. A similar misuse of a debit card, such as in Naomi's case, has no loss limit whatsoever to the holder of that card. Never have I experienced the misuse of any of my accounts resulting from a personal check. AL Bradley

Businesses love bank cards of all kinds.

When our family had 3 independent grocery stores, we spent a lot of time trying to recover $$$ from bad cheques.
Many times we never recovered the lost $$$. Bad cheques wasted a lot of time and took away from the focus on running a business that had to compete with very large companies that controlled their complete supply chain.
After the fraud was committed we could not even reclaim our product in a re-saleable condition.

The net result of fraud is we all pay in the end to make up for the businesses’ shortfall.

Well sorry to hear about your experience Naomi. I work in the credit card industry and strange things can happen – you don’t have to do anything wrong sometimes to have an issue. Fortunately I haven’t had any issues myself but if you need any help that is credit or debit card related please let me know – if the card is branded MasterCard or Visa you have a $0 liability for any fraud so you will get your money back.

I have to say I’m a fan or cards and online banking but that’s perhaps not a surprise. I use Quicken to track my accounts and download transaction daily – I see very quickly if there’s something going on. Probably compulsive but I have a banking background and actually enjoy tracking this stuff. Each to there own I guess :)

The suggestion of shredding is a good one and should be done for most things.

Al,

You may want to double check on the $0 zero liability – some while back I believe you were correct but the $0 liability has been extended to Debit cards for MasterCard and Visa debit cards. As long as your account is in good standing and reasonable efforts were made to prevent fraud the $0 liability commitment is there for both credit and debit cards

http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/aboutourcards/debit/standard_card.html

http://www.usa.visa.com/personal/security/visa_security_program/zero_liability.html?it=il|/personal/security/index.html|Zero%20Liability

That said – I personally used Credit cards most of the time rather than debit.

Simon

I got hit in 2000 with identity theft. I drove up to Grand Rapids, MI and rented a two dolly from U-Haul, then picked up an MGA from UML for a friend who lived in Rantoul, IL.

After I rented the tow dolly, I filled the truck up with gas at the station next door to the U-Haul joint, drove to UML, picked up the car, and headed for home. I was in Grand Rapids no longer than 90 minutes.

I received a call from VISA early Monday morning wanting to know if I had been in Michigan and if I had purchased about $2000 worth of stereo equipment at Best Buy and about $250 worth of food from Damon's Ribs on Saturday nite. (I left town about 2pm)

It was easy for me to have this particular incident corrected...and I have a *gut* feeling that the guilty party worked at U-Haul. VISA would not share any of the outcome with me once I signed an affidavit.

A couple of years ago I purchased a book from a firm in New York. They continued to hit my M/C for $400 about every 3 weeks. Again, the credit card company (and the local Sherriff's Department) brought this to closure without my experiencing any loss of funds.

But it was time consuming and frustrating to have to deal with all of the paperwork. I also felt very violated....which is how Bill and Na most likely feel as well!

The world just "ain't" what it used to be.

Naomi Wrote:

The main advantage of using a credit card (as opposed to a debit card) is that any fraudulent activity creates less of an immediate problem for you. Either way you won't lose money, but I'd rather have the inconvenience of having something charged to my credit card instead of having my checking account drained. I've got other credit cards I could use in the interim, but not other checking accounts.

Of course, my checking account stays pretty much in the "drained" mode anyway...

Joe: LOL!!! Yes, I certainly understand about the "drained" mode and the more cars you have, the more drained it gets! Of course, I have many other drains as well . . . SIGH AL Bradley

Another credit card-related scam is even simpler. Someone opens up your mailbox and removes mail with unsolicited credit cards in it, then runs up a big bill in your name.

We had this happen a few years ago, and we didn't even know we had been sent those cards! We live in California, and the credit card company (I think it was a Discover Card which I don't use) called and asked if we had purchased $6,000 worth of merchandise (stereo junk and bad clothing) in New York City! Somehow the card -- or its numbers -- had made it all the way across the country. Of course, the credit card company cancelled the bill for us, thank goodness.

We've even had outgoing credit payments taken from our mailbox. When the red flag is up, criminals know you probably have checks or credit card statements in the mailbox to be picked up.

So (1) don't mail financial information from your home mailbox. Take it to the post office or mail it at work. And (2) collect your mail promptly from your mailbox.

It's also worth noting that I and my wife have used our credit cards 100s, perhaps 1000s, times over the last 30 years, and we've never had any theft other thank these mailbox-related thefts.

DrewM Wrote:

I do not have USPS mail delivery at home...and use a Post Office Box for some of the exact reasons stated above.

I usually have UPS and FedEx packages sent to my work address as well.

In the past several years I have had the 'big brother is watching you' syndrone. I have and will absolutely not use a Paypal account for any items I get off of Epuke. I have always sent money orders. It takes a bit longer and some of the sellers as well as some of my yuppie 'I need it now' acquaintances complain, but too bad. I do not have to worry about having my information out in the world of cyberspace for all to see. Just my opinion on the matter.

I use my ATM card only for withdrawing cash when I need it. I have never used it as a credit/debit card....strictly as an ATM card. About six weeks ago I got a letter saying my ATM/credit/debit card number had been compromised and that the bank had put a stop on the card and would shortly issue me a new number. Very strange. Sounds like an inside job to me. I got the new number and all is fine.

A while back I got a call from one of my credit card banks saying the card had been compromised by a company in England. Did I purchase something in England. Yes. Was it this particular item? Yes. They had to cancel the card and issue me a new one. Nothing strange ever showed up on the card so I guess it's good that the bank in both cases is watching out for the customers.

I worked with a person who got one of those spoof emails from ebay. This person gave them EVERYTHING...credit card numbers, phone, address, etc. They cleaned her out in about three hours.....

Yep, wife and I rec'd multipule e-mails a few months back reportedly from a local bank indicating that someone had compromised info at that bank and providing a very convienant link so we could provide account and pass word info to insure we weren't compromised....sic puppies out there.

Stopping this type of stuff is my day job.

The bad news is that to put a stop to it we are going to have to re-engineer both the Internet and the financial services infrastructure. It is a huge job that is going to take up to a decade.

Regardless of whether you use the Web you are at risk. The criminals use the Internet to exchange information. There is now a ready market for stolen card information.

Another thing to be aware of is that the frauds are now working back to the telephone. We have recently been seeing an uptick in this type of activity. I am currently getting 100 hits a day on my blog from people being cold called by junk telemarketing scams, we expect this to increase.


The good news is that there are many ways that you can be safe. One of them is to know the basics of how the scams operate:

Phishing: they want to trick you into giving away your account details so they can pretend to be you

Advance Fee Fraud: they may you think that there is a huge amount of money waiting for you if you give them an advance.

Work at Home Fraud: The organized crime rings recruit people to be the 'mules' working for them as money movers or package reshippers. This ends baddly for the mules every single time.


Regardless of whether you use a debit or a credit card there is a US Federal Reserve regulation called Regulation E which limits your liability to $50 in any electronic transaction. In most cases the banks waive the $50.

In case you don't have enough to worry about I have recently observed an increase in cyberwarfare attacks, mostly dropping propaganda onto Web sites but there are others that are worse.

http://dotfuturemanifesto.blogspot.com/

Been using the credit card and debit card for a looong time. Have had no issues with this sort of thing, very fortunately. Like Joe, I use only the CC for on-line stuff - limits exposure of the checking acct. Problem is that you never know when an employee of someone you do business with is going to record your info and there ya go! Although you may not lose $, you lose time and you get morally hurt by people who would try to steal from you. I don't really think banks pursue the people who do this quite hard enough - it's just looked upon as a minor cost of doing business by them.

We've had two credit card incidents. First was many years ago - Sears offered a good interest rate on an applicance purchase if we got a store card. We did, but we destroyed and never used it. Several months later, we started getting bills for store purchases on the card. I had to argue very forcefully with Sears but they eventually accepted that the purchases were not mine.

Second was on a Visa card. I was in Portland, OR on business about 8 years ago. Stayed for a weekend, rented a car, and saw some of the area. In doing so, I went to a street art fair and made a couple of purchases on the Visa. Got a phone call almost as soon as getting back to the hotel - Visa was on the line asking if I had just run up $1500 in phone calls from the Phoenix area. Obviously not. In less than 2 hours, the card number theives had somehow transferred my card number to person(s) in the Phoenix area and they had made $1500 worth of international calls.

Visa removed the charges from my bill but cancelled my card & reissued another.

However, in refinancing my mortgage about four years ago, I found the $1500 listed as a bad debt. The mortgage company didn't mind, so I didn't do anything about it and it is no longer shown on my annual free credit check.

Jim D