MGB: Politics - Let's try something different.

And before anybody starts asking what it's got to do with a foreigner, I'm currently starting the long Citizenship process.

And now the question.


What is good about your candidates of choice? What are they going to do to benefit this country and it's people? I don't want to know what is bad about "their" choice, I want to know why should someone should vote for "your" choice?

Wow, Mike. You may not get any replies on this thread. :)

Too radical an approach. Will require complete re-education of the usual suspects, I think.

I like Obama cause he sent me this cool sticker!

Well, I tried, I can read every other thread over here and tell you every dirty, sleezy thing every candidate ever got up to (whether real or imagined), but I can't actually find anything good being said about any of them.

Mike, I am going to answer you but I need to make a couple of notes and do it between the convention speeches.

I'm voting for Obama/Biden because they represent values I can relate to. They both have worked hard to get where there are with out allowing big business to handle them. They are both extremely well educated in the laws of our country as well as international law. The single biggest decisive moment of this campaign, for me, was seeing how the international community welcomed and receive Barack during his last visit. Their election would instantly go a very long way towards repairing relations w/ country who were much closer allies 8 years ago.

I wonder if the hesitation comes from the fact that none of us REALLY knows what our candidate will end up doing while in office. There are so many variables...and I can not imagine what it must be like for the person on their first day of the presidency. I'll bet there are a few surprises to learn for all of 'em! I'll bet some of those surprises impact what happens next.

The one thing I do think about is the judgment and consistency of a candidate. I think this is where McCain has fallen short (consistency more than judgment)...I don't think he has always "stuck by his guns." (Or had guns). I do think he has better judgment than his opponent however...and I tend to agree with some of his basic positions on areas such as national defense. This combination is part of what appeals to me (though he wouldn't have been my first pick for Republican nominee). I try to keep in mind what a President can and can't influence (often mis-construed)...rather than the blanket attribution of supreme power. Those areas of influence gain my greatest attention.

More interesting to me...Mike, I didn't know you were not a citizen of the U.S.A.. I am guessing that you are a U.K. ex patriot? Accents don't come through the text you know :-) Anyway...congratulations on your decision...I for one would be glad to have you as a fellow citizen of this great country!

TOny

I like pictures...

Same here Mike. I didn't know you were still British.Thank you for choosing American as your new citizenship. By the time you finish your studies of our history and country you'll realize how little most born Americans actually know about their homeland. Our history books have suffered through a great many changes over the past 30 or so years. Still, the history books have fared much better than some stories of authentic folklore which have been banned and for the most part forgotten for no good reason what-so-ever.

Not qualified to answer, being a foreigner and all, but I'm going to anyway.

I think both candidates are an improvement on the current President and so it's a win-win situation for me. I think they are both decent men and would both perform well as Leader of the Free World. Having said that, I favour Obama, mainly because I like his ideology of opening dialogue with the nations that the current Administration has branded an Axis of Evil. I believe communication is paramount. I believe we would never have found a peaceful solution to the conflict in Northern Ireland had we not actually brought the terrorists to the negotiating table. I know you can't necessarily compare that conflict with other flashpoints around the world, but actually talking is a starting point. You're never going to get anywhere by sticking your fingers in your ears.

I have reservations about both of the VPs, particularly Palin, who I simply cannot imagine as Commander in Chief.

Mike these are my reasons and are 10 where McCain is opposite of Obama.

1. McCain stays on the offense on the war on terror.
2. McCain continues support of NATO and protection of struggliing democracy.
3. McCain will not allow Iran to become nuclear weapon capable.
4. McCain allows a 1st year write off of all expense of equipment excluding interest.
5. McCain is pro life.
6. McCain will not sign earmark spending.
7. McCain will maintain the Bush tax cuts or cut further.
8. McCain raise limit on estate tax to at least $10 million.
9. McCain will reduce the size of Government and the cost of Government.
10. McCain will continue defense spending at at least 4% of GDP.

And he picked a great experienced Vice President candidate.

These are my top ten but there are probably many more.

GREAT thread starter Wiz!

Soyokaze 72MGB Wrote:

I think that what stopped that mess in Northern Ireland was our terrible day called 9/11. The IRA was heavily funded by contributions from Irish here in the United States. When terrorism was laid at their own doorstep and they understood what it really was the funding from this side of the pond dried up and that led the terrorists to the negotiating table.

GT caretaker Wrote:

auctionwatch Wrote:

Soyokaze 72MGB Wrote:

The Wiz Wrote:

Derek up North Wrote:

blundgren Wrote:

When one of these guys say they want America better for "all of US" or "WE, the people" are they talking about you?

According to net worth:

Obama has somewhere between $700,000 and 1.1 million
Biden is worth somewhere between -$300,000 and $500,000

McCain has somewhere between $25 million and $40 million... kinda like his houses, it's hard to keep track. He files separate from Cindy... she's worth ALOT more.

Palin ? but I believe she is going to be to BP what Cheney is to Haliburton.

BTW: 2006 net worth numbers on Bush / Cheney were 24 Million / 94 Million.

When Obama and Biden say "we" or "people like us" they ARE talking to me.

When McCain / Bush / Cheney say Obama wants to raise OUR taxes... they are right OUR = Them, NOT you and me. They will be paying more.

Does anybody here really believe that someone EARNS millions of dollars in a year?

auctionwatch Wrote:

....I love the bumper stickers and yard signs that say Reps for Obama..... it's so convincing. I may get a yard sign that says Marxists for Obama.....it's time for some truth in advertising.........

David Deutsch Wrote:

auctionwatch Wrote:

David Deutsch Wrote:

Peter, where did you get the quotes and numbers. I doubt Obama has a net worth of only $1 million because he made $4 million on his book in 2007 he sure has had no personal expenses in the last 2 years. I have not seen a report giving that large a net worth on McCain by himself I doubt his is more than Biden and Cindy is a $100 million.

What is the point and who should care. We should only deal with thier actions and what they say. Why is is it about class envy every four years. Our country was built on the desire to be successful and build wealth. Now we seem to want to change that and punish.

I don't have a candidate of choice.

......"Does anybody here really believe that someone EARNS millions of dollars in a year?"


..............you guys are absured, your class envy is embarrassing and shameful. I am waiting for Robspierre to post next, in support of Obama, and Peter to post that the new bushel baskets are in at Home Depot.......

Richard,

Just Google the name + Net Worth and you'll find info.

It matters because when McCain said Obama wants to "OUR" taxes he is right... his and Cindy's taxes go up. Mine will probably go down. McCain's: "we, ours and us" is not talking about 99% of this country.

6863m Wrote:

wyatt Wrote:

David, I am not aware of Cheney purchasing Haliburton stock on the open market and then helping Haliburton win contracts. I thought he had earned Restricted stock options and two other classes of stock options as part of his compensation package as an employee. These were mostly worthless because they had 3 to 4 year vesting periods. All of which were earned as a private citizen and automatically lost or added value due to the stock price of the company. I guess you are considering the excercise of an option similar to what a speculator would do. Not the same.

David can you give me the name of a few companies who would have submitted a bid for the work the Government was unable to write a specification for and solicit for fixed price contracts. Think back to the time period. Do you think the Government during the build up to the war can write specifications for a known scope of work. Lets get a price of how many oil wells Sadamm will blow up did you know how many. Lets get a price for 10 miles of road and then write an unpriced change order for a 1000 more and we will only have 10 foot deep craters.

They did what they could and there were very few companies who could do anything.

Some background on Haliburton ( Kellogg Brown & Root) published July 14 2003 in
National Review.


http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york070903.asp

Correction on earlier Halliburton Stock Price... hanging around $40.00 per, today.

Richard, I don't know the answer to many of your questions. All I know is that if a guy is worth $34 Million when he becomes Vice Prez and $94 million after 8 year in office, I don't think he got in because he wanted to give something back.

Regarding our energy policies: I feel that we are addicted to Oil and the Republican Party wants us to remain hooked. We need to use less, not find more.

Well David maybe you can destroy what he has and that will make your jealousy feel better.

David: It matters because when McCain said Obama wants to "OUR" taxes he is right... his and Cindy's taxes go up. Mine will probably go down. McCain's: "we, ours and us" is not talking about 99% of this country.

Yours will not go down because if elected, Obama is doing away with the Bush tax cuts for YOU and your taxes will increase $2000-$3000 per year. Is that a tax cut for you? Democratic spin...

....anybody......remember the Clintons deducting their used underware to the IRS,.....now...Hummmm how much are the Clintons worth now???????


I repeat, class envy was not part of my school class curiculumn when I was in school. Creating wealth was considered a good thing.........my....my....my. The left picked an easy target and hit the bulls eye.Then stole as much of it as they could pass laws fast enough to get it.

David Deutsch Wrote:

Also...in response to David's comment about Dick Cheney...I don't think it is fair to assume such a cynical position on Cheney's motivation for entering office...IF you aren't willing to recognize the incredible networth gain by the Clinton's since becoming President. You can't say Bill was in it for anything other than himself if you are going to say that about Cheney.

Bottom line is that we don't know for sure what motivates people in this way...too many variables that are well hidden/disguised by all of our major political candidates I think...

snoski Wrote:

For president, I'll be choosing the person(s) who have the best leadership qualities. In particular, I'll be looking for someone with what is termed 'Transformational' leadership skill.

The role of the president is not to create jobs, or to solve problems. Instead, the president must inspire and grow others to move the nation forward and to correct ills. Experience is helpful, but I'm convinced that there's little learning that takes place once about two years of experience is gained - hence long experience just creates 'deadwood', not ability. Who inspires us to greatness?

After strong transformational leadership, I'll look at organizational ability. The president must put a team together that can gain control of an gargantuan government. Once in control, the team must turn the unwieldy beast so that it is driven rather than drives. The best way to gauge organizational ability among candidates it to look at how smoothly and well run their various campaigns are. If a candidate can't manage a good campaign, they certainly can't run the Executive Branch of government.

Finally, the candidate must surround him/herself with a staff that is open and honest. No one is as pure as driven snow, but we all can recognize shady characters and we must avoid giving them power. We've seen shady people in power for far too long; just consider the rampant fraud associated with the war in Iraq, and in the Katrina aftermath. We should run from, rather than to a candidate that associates with those people.

In short, I'll vote for the junior senator from Illinois.

Jim D

David, if you could google and find the contrbutions to charity you will find that the Chaney's gave more to charity than any other President or Vice President. He could afford it so he did. All of the money earned by his wifes books went 100% to charity. And he gave his to real charity not to his family foundation. If you look at the Clintons they gave but to their family foundations and then did not disrtribute much until Hillary got caught up in the declaration.

David lets assume there was no war and we did not need the services of Haliburton or the oil market tanked. Cheney's stock options would have vested worthless, would you be on the street corner yelling what an admirable public servant he was because he lost money while in office. He did just what Bush did he put his money in trust and the options just did what they did without his doing anything. Other than all the nonsense there has been no proof of any wrong doing just smoke and mirrors.

James, everyone has their criteria for picking their guy. I read yours and the middle two paragraphs are unknowns and will be based solely on your faith in what you have heard. He has proven nothing yet to satisfy your two paragraphs. I hope you are right for your sake.

Richard,

Please take a look at "Halliburton" on Wikipedia site. I found info very interesting.

I'm sorry that I don't have much time to spend here... I'm being called back within the next week or so and am squeezing in a visit w/ my son before that happens.

In closing... for me at least, I honestly believe we all want what/who is best for the majority of US citizens. We do have very different views on who and what that is. I hope that the folks that are going to do the best job wins.

David D.

David, one last comment and I will leave it be. I read the cite and history of Halliburton and not much surprises me. I am not sure your experience with foreign business in the past and how it is done around the world.

It is a very different business than us American purists see it. In the days prior to the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act doing business with the middle east, Greece, Eastern Europe and south America was to say the least wild and wooly. After this act many things changed and many did not, it was a choice of what to do.

On the site you might have noticed that the US companies started to lose out to foreign businesses who were not restrained. You also noted the companies moved their headquarters to be able to do business on the same level.

It is similar to the nonsense you might hear from isolationists (Obama) that say we are not going to do business or have trade agreements with countries who do not have the same laws we do on Unions and environment. It is stupid and a fantasy and will only hurt more than it does good.

We have to get our priorities right and understand what is happening. We can deal with it concurrently but not unilaterally and it is a foolish policy and will hurt American business around the world. Why would you believe our largest oil company is 14th in the world. We can not do business on the same scale. I am not sure how many Americans think globally when they hear Obama and others spout this rhetoric and believe it because they don't understand how it works and the damage it causes.

Ryan you don't understand that Obama does away with Bush's tax cut which means you automatically have your taxes go back up. Then Obama's chart takes affect. McCain's tax cut is on top of the Bush tax cut. So with Obama you actually end up with a tax increase....Understand????

Leadership in a new world. The world is changing rapidly. Conservativism is about the past. Sooner or later, we'll come to grips with the fact that we need to operate differently in the world. I think that time is now.
I like a candidate who thinks more about governing than getting elected ... that's a no-brainer here.

Jfrnkr, McCain is not a conservative and believes in managing government and controlling costs. Does that mean we can count on you for your vote.