MGB: republicannot cannibalism

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=afQoujAldk.U

Joe - do you work (at a job) - are you employed? You earn a salary?

I do. I work between 50-60 hours a week.

Chaz, how about you?

File that story under the heading of "Joe Lieberman." Remember what happened to him?

Both parties regularly wage war on their moderates. God forbid that a national party would allow a candidate to think for themselves. Just watch what Pelosi does over the next term to those few moderate Democrats who opposed her on heath care. My guess is she will strip them of committee assignments, cut them off from federal pork, then get the DNC to finance primary opponents in their next elections. Same thing Republicans do to their independent minded members.

Really Joe, there is no petty fraud, no dirty back-room deal, and no corrupt political ploy which the Republicans are currently engage in..... that the Democrats are not also engaging in at this very minute.

The sole difference is that you admire the Democrats, so you're willing to excuse their lies and corruption while condemning Republicans. People who admire the Republicans are willing to excuse their lies and point fingers at Democrats.

WOW, just posting an article, and look at the wolves come out to defend their party. awesome !!!

and you're using Joe Lieberman as an example? Last I remember, he still holds all his chair positions, and nothing has changed with his seniority in the Senate. you read something I missed? I'm sure I missed something, as Jay, you're always right and come to the debate armed with facts.

and weak response ---- well your party does it too, weak and comical at the same time.

why can't you just look at this situation and comment on it? why do you need to get all defensive and combative when your party is fighting with each other? why does it seem you are all angry people?

ohh, I know why, instead of acknowledging what's going on, you need to turn this into a personal attack while ignoring the topic at hand.

you guys are easy, fall into the trap every time it's set

woof...

No loss there...not even remotely close to being the kind of republican I might vote for (not that I could in this case).

Joe, are you having mental issues? Delusions? Are you taking LSD or some other mind-altering substance? You seem to be a poster bit for hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. First...there is no reason for me to defend Republicans, because I think they nothing more than an organized rabble. And I think your Democrats are a bunch of hypocritical zealots. So the Republicans banded together and screwed a moderate candidate. So F-ing what? What exactly are you implying that proves?

You want some facts? How about a $100,000,000,000 monthly deficit? A trillion dollar annual deficit? Nationalization of the auto industry, the major banks, the largest insurance company, and health care industry. Declare war on the only media outlet that quesions your policies. If your vision of America looks a lot like Venezuela, well then, Mission Accomplished.

Now go arrange those deck chairs.

Jay, does the full moon get you all excitable?

why the anger over a post about republicans turning on one another? why does that get your panties in a bunch? why must you turn that into an attack on me, and the democrats? seriously, why? I posted a link to an article, without commenting on it, and you throw a hissy fit? remember, how children learn to react in situations is from their parents. although in this case it seems you may have learned from your children.

I'm a 420 kinda guy, I don't take man made pharmaceuticals.

[quote=walshja]
I do. I work between 50-60 hours a week.

Chaz, how about you?[/quote]

Ans: yes.

Do you believe you are paying too much in taxes, about the right amount, or think you should be paying more?

[quote=cwweigleathotmail]
[quote=walshja]
I do. I work between 50-60 hours a week.

Chaz, how about you?[/quote]

Ans: yes.

Do you believe you are paying too much in taxes, about the right amount, or think you should be paying more?[/quote]

well, I'm able to raise a family of 4 in Connecticut, on the shoreline, as the sole wage earner in the family. I have 2 daughters aged 5 and 7, and they're both well taken care of. I have a good amount of money in my 401k program, and my health insurance, while expensive, seems OK to me. I have 3 cars, 5 motorcycles and a 1800 sqft house that is more than adequate for us. I play hockey and softball every week, and am a member of a gym. I honestly can't complain about the taxes I pay. Would I like to pay less, or nothing, sure, but I feel have the privilege of living in a shoreline town, in the richest state in the Union, in the best country of the world. I'm able to have what I do have because of the work previous generation did for me: educational system, parks, transportation systems, and even the military. All those perks of living in America didn't come free, past generations didn't have the attitude of me, me, me, and screw everyone else. They understood the value of a high quality education for all Americans, they understood the value of our natural resources and protected them, they understood the value of protecting our elderly and created Medicare. They didn't punt these problems to the next generation, they solved them.

whats happening now in America is we have become a dog eat dog mentality, it's all about me, and screw everyone else. Healthcare is the perfect example, tens of thousands of people die every year due to healthcare insurance issues, and nobody bats an eye. We get attacked on 911, 3k people die and we as a country go crazy, we invade other countries, we kill hundreds of thousands of people without batting an eye, all in the name of fear.

every year due to lack of insurance we lose 10 times the number of people than what we lost on 911, and nobody cares.

so back to taxes, i think the safe answer is of course I would like to pay less, but am I going broke paying what I am paying? I guess not, because I'm living a pretty decent life.

Mornin' Joe, and friends -

Unless someone or something handed you what you have, it would appear that capitalism, your ingenuity, high level of education, and hard work were instrumental in the success you enjoy. It would appear that our culture and beliefs are very similar, and you believe in an America of our forefathers, and of our parents. Who or what is powerful enough, if empowered by the People, to take that success away?

ANS: government.

You have worked hard and have sacrificed for the good of your family - what is wrong with that? No apology is necessary. I sacrificed early in my career to seek a job with health benefits, and hope to cash in on that investment when I retire, much like the 401k you mentioned - you have to put something in to get something back. You obviously understand; you stated this above very clearly.

Unfortunately, being successful these days is being demonized by some in power and in the media, and that would appear to go against the very culture of our country, and of the things in our garage and bank accounts. Which of us that truly love and believe in America will sit down and step aside from this fight, while the current arrogance in government pervades, intrudes, and strives to wash away the very foundation of our homes in this great land?

Why is it wrong - or shameful, as the media advertises - to have victory? Joe, your sweat, hard work and sacrifice account for your success; whether it is in earned medical benefits, or 3 cars, 5 motorcycles and a nice house. Good for you! Don't apologize for preparing a good stock of firewood for the winter cold. Sounds like you did it right, my MG friend.

What is wrong with enjoying the fruits of one's labor?

ANS: nothing, although success is trumpeted by the current administration as being a bad thing, unless that success is blessed - and taxed by Washington, who seeks to take our money and our success, and give it to those who intentionally fall short of the mark. This is a great country, and opportunity abounds for those with an ear and desire to succeed.

I would stand beside and defend a Joe Walsh that believes in American free enterprise, and the right of liberty and choice in pursuance of his American Dream. I would stand beside and support a Joe Walsh who believes in being free of the shackles of excessive and intrusive government control.

I too, own a few nice things, and while I have great compassion for those who legitimately need help, I will not stand or sit by and complacently hand over my earnings to a government who desires to provide a free for all of freebies to those who are able to do for themselves. Isn't that really what you and I believe in, Joe? Isn't Guilford, CT a great example of an America we should believe in?

Finally, would you say our country is migrating away from the original values and work ethics of previous generations - away from the beliefs of your mom, dad, grandparents, where they enjoyed little government control and intervention? I wonder what they would have done if 911 occurred in 1950, 1960? Bet some asses would have been kicked, and the pain would have been shared. Look no farther than the nukes and cold war with the Ruskies, of which I can speak and elaborate with some first hand authority.

And how did healthcare work back then? I think we know the answers to these questions. Should we allow Washington to dictate what we should believe, and then dictate to us the direction we should be headed without hearing our side of the equation? Will we surrender without a fight, or will we give up our homes and way of life with a whimper of acquiescence?

Last time I looked, the Congressional crowd had a bigger house than me, and you.

Call it Republicanism, Conservatism, Capitalism; I'll call it FREEDOM, and seek to make it the same for my kids, as our parents did for us. Have a good morning - CWW, Aiken, SC USA

Chuck, first thanks for a thoughtful post without any flame throwing, a refreshing change from this angry crowd.

In theory you post feels good. In reality not everyone had the same opportunities I had. I'm a white male, who grew up in Guilford, Connecticut. I had access to a lot more opportunities that a black kid who was from Bridgeport, CT. The playing field is far from equal in this country. Looking at your own situation, and using that as a metric for the rest of the country is not accurate in my opinion. The school system in Guilford, CT is far superior than the school system in Bridgeport, CT. My mother did not have to work. We owned our own house. Those few things listed I personally had nothing to do with, yet I'm reaping the benefits of them, that gives me as a child a leg up over other children in poor areas. That's a not a level playing field.

We both agree that we are reaping he rewards of our own hard work and from our forefathers. I think we are dropping the ball for future generations, and healthcare is a great example. Government administering healthcare is not about giving away for free what people should be paying for. everyone who has a job will pay into the healthcare system, it's not for free. Do people in Canada, UK, France or Germany feel that way? Reading the posts of people from those countries, I never get the feeling they feel that way. A government administered healthcare plan will reduce the costs for everyone, and everyone will be covered, just like in Canada and other countries I listed. Those are facts that nobody is disputing. The issue with healthcare is the prevalent attitude that we will be paying for the lazy SOBs who are collecting welfare and unemployment off my dime. While there are lazy people in this country, and every country, the majority of people want to work, want to contribute, but the opportunities are just not there. Corporate America is about enriching the wallets of a select few individuals, with obscene bonuses and salaries, while they are laying off middle America by the millions. These people are left without their 401k programs, they are left without health insurance, and most importantly there are no jobs for them to take. These are not lazy people, these people are my father, who worked for a Brass Company his entire life, only to be laid off at age 62, without insurance, without skills to get an office job (there is no manufacturing jobs anywhere), to young for Medicare, too old to re-educate himself. America is leaving people like him out to dry. BTW, this brass company is moving his manufacturing to China, so instead of making a $1 million dollar salary, he will now make $1.5, while laying off 150 employees in Ansonia, CT. The current system encourages companies to do this, this needs to change.

A few generations ago CEOs were making 40 times the salary of the average employee, now they make 430 times the salary of the average employee. How is this a good thing? This is not capitalism, this is greed, and middle America is paying the tab for these greedy bastards. As their salaries go up, their taxes went down due to Reagan and Bush, putting an even greater crunch on the middle class. As CEO's award themselves with stock options, our pension plans were all canceled. The transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy needs to stop, and reversed.

There is nothing wrong with us enjoying what we have worked hard for, I don't feel guilty at all, but I feel a certain amount of responsibility to ensure everyone in my country has access to the same opportunities that I had.

Addressing your thoughts about the 911 occurring in the 1950's. I certainly don't believe we would invade a country which had nothing to do with 911. This isn't about kicking ass, this is about starting wars based on lies.

Joe Walsh wrote: In theory you post feels good. In reality not everyone had the same opportunities I had. I'm a white male, who grew up in Guilford, Connecticut. I had access to a lot more opportunities that a black kid who was from Bridgeport, CT. The playing field is far from equal in this country. Looking at your own situation, and using that as a metric for the rest of the country is not accurate in my opinion. The school system in Guilford, CT is far superior than the school system in Bridgeport, CT. My mother did not have to work. We owned our own house. Those few things listed I personally had nothing to do with, yet I'm reaping the benefits of them, that gives me as a child a leg up over other children in poor areas. That's a not a level playing field.[/i]

Hi Joe - Not a lot of time to wax eloquently with you right now, and many separate, complex subjects, too, so I'll be brief. Can't speak to your opportunities; you obviously did well to accrue the holdings you mentioned. The government forcing a level playing field is socialism, where doctors make the same as a janitor, as decided by bureaucrats. Didn't work in Russia, won't work here. Who will spend $200k for a medical education to accept a government mandated salary of $25k/yr? Insert other priofessions, as well. And what of Harvard that charges $50k/year tuition, while a local Harvard on the hill costs $5k/yr. Under the ever present and watchful eye of Big Government, all schools would be the same. Bet the Ivy League profs will love that salary cut.

Everyone has different talent, and so different $ worth. Artificially making everyone equal, or level, is not what made America great, nor is it a recipe for future success. I'm not for government deciding what is fair for me, or for you, Joe. I'm sticking up for your rights, and our freedom to choose. You have the same right to choose differently, I'll support you, but don't tread on me, as the saying goes.[/b]

[b]As to a level playing field, which of us on this forum is stopping that poor person in Anycity USA from moving to a better place, or to try his hand at entrepreneurship, as did Bill Gates, who started with nothing. Plenty of success stories out there - in fact, you may be communicating with one right now.[/b]

If I was paying $6k/year in property taxes and could get them for $600 a year in a comparable state/location, I believe the matter would receive my utmost due diligence. Apply that same logic to opportunity and jobs - lots of jobs out there if one is willing to move, take risks - I could make 2-3x what I make now if I followed that lead. I enjoy that FREEdom of choice.

[i]Government administering healthcare is not about giving away for free what people should be paying for. everyone who has a job will pay into the healthcare system, it's not for free. Do people in Canada, UK, France or Germany feel that way?[/i]

[b]No disrespect to these friends, but in this instance, my country comes first, and that may mean that I really don't care what they feel. This is about what is best for America, not that we can't study their plans and maybe pick up some pointers. As stated previously, nothing is free - you pay in, you get back. You don't pay in, well, you know what I'm thinking. Why is it that many in our country expect that everyone else should support them financially? ANS: Big Government told them so.[/b]

[b]I do not have a problem helping those who cannot help themselves, but across the board, everyone pays? I don't think so. And why isn't Congress on the same proposal they wish to vote into effect for me? Here's one instance where we can agree that the playing field is NOT level: John Q. Public and the Current Administration. If we must, let's start leveling things in Washington, DC first, and watch this Congressional and media yap run for cover. I say to them: put your money where your mouth is - if your government universal healthcare is so good, why aren't you, Pelosi, Frank, on the same plan proposal?[/b]

[i]Corporate America is about enriching the wallets of a select few individuals, with obscene bonuses and salaries, while they are laying off middle America by the millions.[/i]

In some cases, yes, and where LAWS were broken, ENFORCE the law. And who decides what is "obscene"? You? Me? REAL ANS: Big government.

[b]Didn't you write in another thread that you owned a $360,000 home? Maybe I think that's obscene.[/b]

Better yet, what will you do if (actually WHEN on the current rabbit trail) the government comes along and says the home playing field needs to be leveled? Are you willing to give up your hard earned Guilford nest egg to those who live in an apartment? [b]Why wait for the government mandate? Do it now, if you TRULY believe in what you state.[/b]

[b]I would challenge you to walk the talk, but I really don't believe that what you have stated is what you believe. When they come for your house, your motorcycles and 401k, I predict that you will have a change of heart.[/b]

[i]The current system encourages companies to do this, this needs to change.[/i]

[b]The America of our own parents is, and remains free enterprise as long as FREEDOM prevails. You asked me later on about freedom - I submit to you Joe, that it is freedom of choice that allows you to stay in the house you have. WHO will decide how to change that fundamental dream, and to what extent? ANS: Big government.

No thank you, but feel "Free" to vote for it if you wish. In so doing, you will reap what you sow, perhaps for all of us, and that sir, is not something that sounds refreshing to my current way of life.[/b]

[i]There is nothing wrong with us enjoying what we have worked hard for, I don't feel guilty at all, but I feel a certain amount of responsibility to ensure everyone in my country has access to the same opportunities that I had.[/i]

[b]I think you do feel guilty, and the government and media are doing their darned best to make you feel that way to get their programs passed, at any cost, and with emotions in tow.[/b] After reading your comments on your dad and family, I believe you have a good heart and hate to see someone not enjoy the American Dream as you have. Do not apologize for success. This is America - right at this minute you and I have the opportunity to be millionaires, and so do many, if we only put our minds and backs to the wheel. [b]No one is stopping us, but if government starts mandating what they think is fair and equitable in salaries, where will our dream be? It will cease to exist, and our children will suffer the same, perhaps worse fate.

On equal opportunity, laws exist everywhere that protect those willing to take risks - or not; more Laws, Bills, and government intrusion on our FREEDOMS is not the answer.[/b]

[b]If healthcare needs work, let's fix what's broken, not throw out the 75% that works in the political HOPES that something yet proven may work. What?! The majority in Congress is scared to pass it on their own (even though they can) - why is that? I think we know the answer; it's called being unemployed.[/b]

[i]...about the 911 occurring in the 1950's. I certainly don't believe we would invade a country which had nothing to do with 911. This isn't about kicking ass, this is about starting wars based on lies.[/i]

[b]That's not what my dad would've said.[/b] He's a WWII vet, and he would've voted to kick ass. I intend to carry on the tradition. The welcome mat is out; my kicking is to vote the current bums OUT. ALL of them. You and I can run for office, and make a fresh, welcome start in DC.

[b][i]Washington is listening to its people[/i][/b]

[b]Now Joe, that's not funny at all. If they are giving that perception, it's because there's a gun to their heads (rhetorically speaking, of course). Do you REALLY believe Congress cares what Joe and Chuck think?[/b]

[i]If you don't want the government administered healthcare, don't use it.[/i]

[b]Okay Joe - same logic:
1. Quit trying to force it on those who don't want it.
2. If you want it, you pay for it. Works for my car and life insurance, why not health?
3. If Congress wants it, why aren't they going to use it?

Again, you know the answer for #3, which speaks volumes about it as a whole. They don't want it "because they care about us." Now I'm trying to be funny, but you know it to be true, as supported by the record.[/b]

[i]In the end, it's not wrong to enjoy the success I have, I'm not shameful having what I have, I just want to ensure everyone in this country has the same opportunity I had, and that's just not the case.[/i]

[b]Disagree with your semantics: Not "same", but "equal", Joe. Already decided in Brown v. Board of Education, for starters.
Can't mandate same in jobs, opportunities, or salaries; we are all different, and worth more, worth less.[/b]

[i]The average income of a dual income household is $67k.

[b]You don't strike me as average; I submit average pay would be unacceptable to you, as well. If you can make $134k, why should you settle for $67k?

Same for average house (about $88,000), average transportation, etc. The big question: Are you willing to walk the talk, and give up what you have in favor of "sameness"? Your answer may be, "Well, I'd give up some". Okay...then we're debating "how much", and that will be settled by who? ANS: Big Government.

I'm just not for major changes in our country and what it was founded upon because we're under fire at the moment. I say we stay the course, let supply and demand balance the markets, and vote those who fail to represent in good faith, those principles by which America was founded upon. We have a duty to our forefathers, moms and dads, and our children. Thanks, Chuck in Aiken, SC

I have to side with Chuck on this one.

Joe, you make some good arguments about CEO pay and I wish it weren't true, but government mandating salary caps is just wrong.

Social engineering has not worked anywhere that I'm aware of, and I've seen it first hand. Perhaps we should mandate military service, that would provide everyone an equal opportunity to the one I had. It worked for me...

"that says it all..."

Not quite.[/b]

WALK THE TALK: If a person truly believes in what he has written about leveling the playing field, why wait for the government? Set the example for all of us, level the playing field NOW, give up all your "obscene" things, maybe that shoreline house, the cars, motorcycles, 401k, etc. Having all of that is obviously excess, obscene, and just plain unfair.

Yes, the current administration wants you to participate, and if you don't participate voluntarily, you will be compelled to participate, because Congress and this president knows what's best for you and your family, in everything - taxes, healthcare, gun control, the media, etc. Is that really what our country needs, or does it just sound good as Congress kisses the baby while stealing his lollipop?


This IS about FREEDOM of choice or Congressional power and control of The People. Big Government administered healthcare is a fine example of this ship running amuck:

1. Do not force all citizens to pay for something they don't want.
2. If a citizen wants it, allow him to buy it.
3. Remove the government barriers that make it expensive and allow free competition.

[b]BONUS: If Congress wants it, why aren't they going to use it?

ANS: They aren't walking the talk. Sound familiar?

Chuck, I don't want to pay for fire protection, should I have to?

And I live in a low crime town, I don't think we need police protection, lets kill that program !!!

am I on the right path?

Chuck, seems like you are placing your anger in the wrong spot.

Has Obama said anything about gun control?

didn't Obama put in place one of the largest tax cuts ever?

Joe, the problem here is the gov is growing in leaps and bounds, who pays for it? Soon the only job in America will be a government yob. Where will the taxes come from to pay for it. Certainly flipping burgers at Mc D's and Hardies hardly foots the bill. Government the enemy,not the answer.

I just don't see a public healthcare option as cause for concern.

It's working in the rest of the world, why such great fear that it will destroy our country?

Joe, what was the largest tax cut ever you refer to. I thought most of the payroll tax cut was mearly a loan. Also he has said he will let the Bush tax cuts exprire so we are looking at a very big increase for all coming. There is no way Obama can cut taxes with his plans it just does not work.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123111279694652423.html

tax cuts are already in place

and I agree, we cannot increase spending, while cutting taxes, doesn't make sense. I wish Bush understood that, if he did maybe he would not have turned the surplus he inherited into a deficit

Well apparently some people in Virginia , Maine and New Jersey are 'waking up'

Let's hope all Americans [and the world] will realize this 'Culture Of Death' leads only to poverty, misery and destruction.

Unfortunately our school district has not.

Tuesday, 03 November 2009
by Sue Austreng
Staff writer

Just two hours after polls closed on election day 2009, a sigh of relief breathed fresh air into the board room inside Anoka-Hennepin’s Education Service Center.

With 37 of 37 precincts reporting, District 11 voters passed the levy referendum renewal by a wide margin; 16,786 “yes” votes to and 11,839 “no” votes.

WHICH MEANS A HEFTY REAL ESTATE TAX INCREASE.

“I’m very pleased, very pleased,” said Superintendent Dennis Carlson.

SURE YOU ARE DENNIS, NOW YOUR 1.2 MILLION $$$ SALARY CAN GO EVEN HIGHER.



“This is a commendable vote by the community. This is very positive support in this tough economic atmosphere,” Carlson said. “It’s very gratifying to see this strong support and it gives a message to the legislature: we’ve done our work here, now they’ve got to step up.”

In the race for school board seats, incumbents John Hoffman, Michael Sullivan and Kathy Tingelstad each won their respective races.

KATHY IS THE RINO WHO OVERRODE THE GOVERNORS VETRO TO RAISE TAXES ON SALES AND GAS.

Tingelstad defeated opponents Jeff Simon and Patrick Murray when she won 58 percent of the votes.

Hoffman and Sullivan were unopposed in their contests.

AND WHY NOT, AFTER ALL WHO WOULD DARE CHALLENGE THEM?

yup.

[quote=walshja]
Chuck, seems like you are placing your anger in the wrong spot.
[/quote]

My friend, I'm not angry at you at all - I've been shot at...I seriously doubt any rhetoric you could muster herein on your best day would raise my blood pressure much of a click.

I also submit that you appear to be the one that is angry, and I can understand why after reading your many and previous posts. Perhaps you are disappointed that the current administration has failed, and continues to slide deeper, with your emotions, future paychecks, and taxes in tow. You want answers and are confused, as the public trough is running dry of fresh ideas in this spiraling economy.

What I despise is that my kids will have to bear such a huge economic burden for our government's continuing failures because of stupidity and ignorance in voting. WE need to stop this spending spree NOW. Like your credit card, everyone MUST pay back what you charge, everyone except Big Government, of course - the rules are different for them, just like healthcare - ram it through for us, screw the costs, they'll be on a different plan.

You said you had kids, can you not understand that more programs cost money$$ - you either have to print $$ it, or tax The People. I have yet to see 2 twenties in my wallet spontaneously reproduce, although I'd bet Obama would have promised that feat if it would have appeared on his teleprompter.

You're already paying property taxes that are nearly 5x++ what many others pay; you're okay with that?

Washington cannot manage my money better than me. You seem to share a different opinion about yourself, and your situation. So be it, you are entitled to your choice and opinion, and are free to pay Washington as much as you wish, keeping your hands away from my wallet. Don't tread on me. Make your choice, pay your bill, and reap what you sow. I shall endeavour to do the same. Freedom of choice works both ways, at least in the America I know and love.

As bad as Big Government seems to want to control your life, it is amazing - fascinating, perhaps, to me that you remain such a steadfast proponent of that which wants to surpress your growth, average your worth, and make you apologize for your success.

Perhaps you have heard the example where the college professor decided that at the class end, all the grades of all the students would be averaged together. Those that worked and studied hard and received an A were lumped in with those F students who either could not, or would not make the required effort: the result was that everyone got a C. The point was the professor wanted students to understand the concept of socialism, where everyone is "the same", and where government (the professor) collects ALL the grades (salaries) high and low, and then distributes them to the students (The People) as government sees fit.

Would it not make you angry if Government said that no one should have a house valued over the "average"....what is that, around $88,000? You wrote in another topic that yours was what, $360k? Are you ready for that? Why would you want and allow the camel to even poke his nose into your tent? Your logic makes little sense to me, but I have, and will continue to defend your right to free speech, and to your opinion. CWW, Aiken, SC

Chuck, do you think the fire departments should be abolished? police departments? how about the DOT?

seriously, how far do you take your beliefs? should we be paying zero taxes?

Joe, when you make the statement you did it makes you sound foolish and not serious. Basic government services are not what this is about. It is about what they have morphed into. I can tell the horror stories of California and the out right theft of taxpayer money and transfer to the governing class and beauracracy but I know that is not what is done in every state or city. We are talking about what has gone beyond the reasonable. We can not just take over half of the US productivity and tie it up with the government and expect the economy to grow. It just will not work. Europe and now the US are stagnent and can't move dragging the anchor of government so large.

[quote=walshja]
Chuck, do you think the fire departments should be abolished? police departments? how about the DOT?

seriously, how far do you take your beliefs? should we be paying zero taxes?[/quote]

Fire depts abolished? No, but then again, I pay $25/month for the local service, a good value.

Police abolished? No, my local property taxes pay for that, also a good and reasonable value/return. I also support the right to keep and bear arms, and I am armed - bad guys have a bad day when they don't know which folks may be carrying legal heat. But that's another debate, the Second Amendment, isn't it? By the way, are you for it - you know, the Right of the People to keep and bear arms?

I am not for outlawing Big government, although there have been many instances where they have been in favor of outlawing much of what I consider protected freedoms. One reasonable purpose for the federal government to exist is to provide for the national defense. How do you stand on maintaining a strong military? Hard to negotiate with the Ruskies when you're trying to bluff with a pair of deuces.

I like seeing my country holding 4 aces, although I must also ask you if you think it's okay for a US president to bow to other heads of state?

"seriously, how far do you take your beliefs? should we be paying zero taxes?"

I've been pretty serious all along, I'm just trying to make this fun so we don't lose readers. I want Skye's business to flourish, grow, expand.

Oh yeah, how far...indeed. How far would you like me to take them? How about Washington? This forum is obviously your canvas, paint away, shoot away, but know that I am not a conscientious objector.

Oh yeah, zero taxes. Why not zero FEDERAL INCOME taxes? Why hasn't Big Washington Government embraced the Fair Tax? www.fairtax.org Is it because it limits their power? Surely you can understand the benefits of keeping MORE of your money in a consumer-tax system versus the current mess we have?

And here's the part of it that I KNOW you'll LOVE; With the Fair Tax, EVERYONE gets to pay!! You want a pack of smokes, you gotta pay the tax. You want 5 motorcycles, you gotta pay the tax. You want no motorcycles, "you don't gotta pay the tax"....you getting the photo op?

It's a consumer tax, you pay for what you get - even the illegals gotta' pay! OH, THE INJUSTICE! What, it's not fair? Then why do they call it the Fair Tax?

So, here we sit, in Bailout Nation, where our illustrious Congress is ponied up for about 30% ownership of the private sector. They've come a long way from national defense. Let's see, they're into owning banks, insurance companies, GM, Chrysler, and trying to dodge (and ram - hey, a Mopar pun) healthcare (about another 15%)....getting pretty close to owning about 1/2 of the country in what, about a year's time?

These actions make me soooo relaxed, because I trust Pelosi and the Frankster to manage my bottom line. Well, goodness, look at the time! Enough about my beliefs, Joe - how about yours? CWW, Aiken, SC