Rover EFI parts search and associated questions

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Nov 19, 2009 21:49:28
cgill

I'm having a bit of a hard time finding a few parts for my rover EFI setup. One thing I'm missing is the on board diagnostic display. I have seen them for sale previously on ebay for $30-50 but nothing has been listed in the past few weeks. Does anyone have one they want to part with for a reasonable price?

I'm also on the hunt for oxygen sensors. The local Rover used parts guy wants $50 for a used one. I thought that was a bit steep but I would be interested in other opinions. I found new replacement ones on the ngk.com website for $120 US. Is that a wiser route to go than trying to find some used ones?

V8 project update....
Progress is slow but steady. My T5 tranny is almost together and now I"m on the hunt for a shifter. I have modified the miata seats that Simon Austin got for me so they now fit in the car. I'm off to the machine shop tomorrow to pick up my lowered EFI plenum so I can start putting that system back together, once I find someone to clean and bench test my injectors (this is proving difficult)! Then I'm hoping the machine shop will have my engine bits ready for reassembly. Yahoo!!! I also ordered a set of 15x8 superlites in charcoal grey from Hap so hopefully those show up in a week or so. Now I just need to find tires to fit them...

Cheers,
Chris

Nov 19, 2009 21:50:24
cgill

Okay so I'm a little anal in regards to organization!





Nov 19, 2009 21:51:29
cgill

A shot showing the spoiler from Dick Moritz being test fitted...

Nov 19, 2009 22:24:30
Be Coming

Nice work and a clean shop. I'm envious.

Nov 19, 2009 22:29:09
260mgb

Really coming along! I think you are going to be limited to 225-50-15 tires for the wheels. Did you get them with the machined lip?

Nov 20, 2009 06:19:32
mabie1978

Looking good Chris, you would run screaming from my shop :). But when there are 3 projects in there going at the same time, oh what can I say. You will have to keep me up on how the EFI goes, we are doing the carb first then going to change over to EFI later on. I too have everything except for the computer piece also. But I did see our local pick n pull got in 6 rovers and was thinking about seeing if any of those computer set ups would work. Did you just bead blast the metal bits or did you also paint them? If so which color did you use?

Nov 20, 2009 06:42:49
Ryan Reis

You are really trucking along, I'm envious of your progress. You would have to use time lapse photography to see progress on my v8 project. I DO make progress, just very slowly. I'll have to see if I can find the link, I found some information somewhere about setting up your own test switch to test and clean injectors. I know my ford injectors will need cleaning as the engine has been sitting for years.

Here's the link on ford fuel injectors: http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=82

Maybe this will help.

Nov 20, 2009 08:16:45
cgill

Quote: "
Really coming along! I think you are going to be limited to 225-50-15 tires for the wheels. Did you get them with the machined lip?"


Jim I was thinking about even narrower wheels (215/60 or 215/50) based on what people are saying about fitment but I would love to go for 225s. Won't I have issues with the tires rubbing on the suspension in the front? I am doing omni flares on the car so the wheel wells aren't likely to be an issue,

Michelle, if you do get to the pick n' pull try I think you can use the computer from an 1987-95 rover if I'm not mistaken. You might want to grab the O2 sensors from them as well. If there is an extra on board digital display, can you grab it and I"ll pay you back?

I had the upper plenum sandblasted but just cleaned up all the other bits and painted them with the high temp Plasticote paint from Napa. Aluminum colour. I tried a bit of polishing before I switching to paint but the parts turned out a little splotchy.

Don't get too excited about my progress! The car has to go to the body shop in the spring so I'll be stripping it down to nothing which will make it look like I'm going in reverse.

Cheers,
Chris

Nov 20, 2009 08:41:40
cgill

Quote: "
You are really trucking along, I'm envious of your progress. You would have to use time lapse photography to see progress on my v8 project. I DO make progress, just very slowly. I'll have to see if I can find the link, I found some information somewhere about setting up your own test switch to test and clean injectors. I know my ford injectors will need cleaning as the engine has been sitting for years.

Here's the link on ford fuel injectors: http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=82

Maybe this will help."


Thanks for the link Ryan. It looks fairly straightforward to clean them yourself. I also want to make sure they all flow the same so I probably need to find someone around here to test them.

Nov 20, 2009 13:23:29
Simon Austin

Since you mentioned it; middle cardboard pallet, 2nd row of bolts, 3 & 4 are out of alignment. Straighten that up, will ya? ;)

Parts look good. When I need stuff clean and organized, I'll call you.

Nov 20, 2009 13:36:07
cgill

Thanks Simon. I will rearrange the bolts as per your request. :eyeroll:

Now does anyone have any info on on board digital displays or oxygen sensors?

Nov 20, 2009 16:43:21
mabie1978

Chris, what do you mean by the onboard digital display? And do you know where the computer is located on the Rovers? We were thinking of hitting the pick n pulls tomorrow if we don't have any thing else going on. Also someone on grassroots moto's page said there is a MGB in one of them too. Last time there was a B there I came home with a set of fiberglass fenders and a roll bar for 70 total.

Nov 20, 2009 22:43:15
260mgb

Chris, 215 for 6" wide rim, 225 for 7-8" rim. Did you mean 15x6". 8" is pretty wide with MGB offset. With zero offset like the Z cars, it might work with flares. I think 7" MGB offset would fit.

Nov 20, 2009 23:28:29
RobertEdgeworth

I like your organization, we do it the same way over here! Most people that pick on us are the ones who are going out and spending a bunch
on misplaced parts :)
I would also like to know where to purchase an on-board display reasonably.
As for the O2-senors. We purchased ours from Glen Towery. I'm not sure if he has another set but you may want to get intouch with him.
Hes a member on this board.

Nov 21, 2009 05:45:18
mabie1978

Hmm, someone has to tell me what the onboard display is. Something for the dash of the B after the conversion?

Nov 21, 2009 09:09:21
Duncan

Hey Chris, from what I understand, there are only 4 kinds of Narrow Band O2 sensors for ALL cars:

1. Simple1 wire O2 sensor. The sensor grounds out through the exhaust. Generally thought to be the most prone to floating ground problems etc, although literally millions of cars (including mine!) run fine with them, it's easy to replace with....

2. Simple 2 wire O2 sensor. One wire is the signal for the computer, and the sensor grounds through the other wire, which usually goes to a common ground connection for most of the other sensors. A nice, simple reliability upgrade for any car with a single O2 sensor. Can be upgraded to....

3. Heater 3 wire O2 sensor. Has a heating element built in to bring up to temp (600* or so) quickly. One wire is for the signal to computer, one wire runs to an ignition source for the element, and they share a ground. A useful upgrade if you have your O2 sensor mounted too far downstream and it cools off at idle. This would force the computer into Open Loop mode, and perhaps make it run funny, as well as affecting emissions.

4. Heated 4 wire O2 sensor. Same as a three wire, but there are separate grounds for the element and the sensor itself.

Basically, all O2 sensors simply generate voltage based on the difference in the amount of O2 outside the exhaust, versus the amount inside the exhaust. The richer you're running (and all O2 is consumed), the greater the difference in % O2 outside the exhaust versus in, so the greater the voltage from the sensor. If you're running lean (with lots of O2 in your exhaust), the difference between exhaust and atmosphere is less, so you have less voltage from the sensor.

The point is - you can use any O2 sensor you want, as long at it bolts in, and since you're making your own exhaust, you can choose common threads for the bung(s) for a common O2 sensor. In fact, you can buy "universal" O2 sensors, where you simply wire in the connector off of your old sensor onto the pigtail on the new one. I rewired an O2 for my Jeep. All of the downstream O2 sensors are missing at the wreckers, because when the cat is removed, the downstream O2s go too! After some research, I found that BOTH locations called for the same "universal" O2 sensor, telling me it was only the pigtail and connector that were different. So, I repinned the connector from an upstream O2 sensor that looked shiny, and plugged it in. A nice $5 solution to an $80 problem!

I'm ready to be told I'm wrong in this case, but here's a link on a universal O2 listed for a 96 Land Rover 4.0. And a great site for part numbers and cross referencing!

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=343801

You can put the O2 from a Hyundai into a Mercedes with no problems if you have a soldering iron.;)

Nov 21, 2009 09:12:34
Edd Weninger

It is a box with some LED displays that can give you the error codes from the 14CUX control module.

Not needed for running the EFI or tuning. I have one and have never used it (but not for sale, sorry).

Nov 21, 2009 11:00:38
cgill

Thanks for the info guys!

Michelle, the box is located under the passenger seat along with the computer. Here is a photo showing what it looks like.

I have to run out for a bit but will respond to the other posts as soon as I get back!

Chris

Nov 21, 2009 13:11:46
scotabbott

The narrow band units all generate the same signal level and at the same AFR. I think it's a lousy ripoff that a lot of parts places do, selling stuff at such high prices, and pretending they are special items.

Nov 21, 2009 13:50:55
lars49

X2 on what Scot and Duncan said. FWIW I got my 3 wire sensor off a late model vehicle at a local U-pull. I think all newer cars have 2, one up front on the exhaust manifold - a 1 or 2 wire - and a 3 wire aft of the cat. Cost me about $6.00 or so.

Nov 21, 2009 20:32:50
mstemp

Duncan, Scot Chris etc.

The Rover O2 sensor is not the same as all the other ones on the market. Please look at the article that Curtis did on the 14 CUX Rover system. Yo can not simply use a cheaper sensor, sorry. Like Chris found Rockauto has them for ~$125

http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Rover-14CUX-EFI.htm

"Oxygen Sensors were an invention of Volvo Car Corporation in the mid 1970's. The sensing element that Volvo pioneered consisted of a "zirconia" (zirconium oxide) ceramic bulb coated with a thin layer of platinum. Over ninety-five percent of all cars that use Oxygen Sensors use zirconia, but the Rover 14CUX system DOESN'T use zirconia sensors! Instead, it uses "titania" (titanium dioxide) sensors. Although they're technically more accurate and faster reacting, titania sensors carry a premium price. Many Nissan's and some Toyota's have also been equipped with titania sensors.

Zirconia Oxygen Sensors provide a fluctuating voltage output between 0.50V and 1.00V. Titania sensors don't create a voltage signal - instead they provide a resistance signal between about 20 kilohm (for a lean mixture) and about 1 kilohm (for a rich mixture). The Rover 14CUX ECU provides the sensors a low-current 5 volt supply and measures the resulting voltage drop across the sensors. So, if you measure DC voltage across the Oxygen Sensors while the vehicle is running (by connecting a voltmeter between terminal 4 and terminals 23 and 24 respectively) you should expect to see voltage readings that vary between 0.50V and 1.00V. Very interestingly, the voltage reading will look similar to what you'd see with zirconia Oxygen Sensors. There's a subtle difference, however. On a Rover 14CUX vehicle, a 0 volt reading means "lean" and a 1 volt reading means "rich", which is the reverse of what you'd expect on most other vehicles."

Nov 22, 2009 02:26:25
Duncan

Well as I said, I was waiting to be proven wrong! Titania, huh? Neat!

My RockAuto link above was actually for a "universal" O2 for a Land Rover 4.0l, and at $96, offers almost 25% savings in trade for the time required to solder on your old pigtail. And apparently this sensor does fit a few Nissans!

Nov 22, 2009 13:19:22
Kaiser Sosei

Atlantic British has the right O2 sensor for $114 normally, but if you catch a sale you can get them for about $95 a piece. I have ordered a few parts from them for my Rover and have been pleased from their service. They are helpful and knowledgeable as well.


Just noticed that you're in Canada, may not be cost effective to have shipped over the border.

Nov 22, 2009 15:14:48
cgill

Thanks for the info guys. Very informative as usual and I'll bookmark this page for future reference.

So would you use a used oxygen sensor from a rover????? Or would you go new? If I go new I'd have to buy the replacement ones because I do not have the connectors.

Jim, as for tires, I am putting omni flares on my car so the 15x8s with 225/R 50s will fit. Of course Simon Austin had to crawl under his car and take a bunch of measurements for me which was hugely appreciated!

Kaiser, I have a US mailing address I can use so will look into those sensors when I'm ready to buy some if I shouldn't re-use ones off a parts truck.

Cheers,
Chris

I picked up a shifter for my tranny today. Wohooo! Still no luck finding an onboard diagnostic display or oxygen sensors though.

Nov 22, 2009 20:21:49
Simon Austin

Can't help you much with the computer stuff, Chris. You guys are leaving me and my "old school" car behind. :)

As for crawling around under her, she doesn't mind and likes the attention. Anytime I can help, I'm there. :thumbsup:

Good news on the shifter. I can take that off the "list".........now back to that Omni fender.....

Nov 23, 2009 06:33:43
PaulM

I know I've seen that little bag of Stainless flat washers somewhere before!

Nov 23, 2009 08:26:40
cgill

Thanks Simon! Have you tried the beer yet???

Paul, yep, those stainless washers are enjoying the company of some shiny bolts ready to be assembled.

Chris

Nov 23, 2009 15:32:11
cgill

I got my hands on a diagnostic display today. Wohoooo!!!

And look what else came in the mail....15x8s from Hap. And yes, I will be doing a bit of fender mods to fit the 225/50/15s

Nov 23, 2009 15:33:21
cgill

Another...

Hmmm...there's a bit of a difference between the old wheel on the left and the new one on the right!

:thumbsup:

Nov 24, 2009 09:26:19
Simon Austin

Whadda talkin' about? That looks about right. Makes up for the fact the B rear axle is off-set from the factory. ;)

You have a photo along the outer fender? I'm curious to see if my measurements were close as to how far that wheel sticks out. Donna told me you had sent photos of the new bling. She made a comment as to how clean your garage is. I told her that's because he hasn't atually started doing any work on his car......just collecting parts and showing off!

Haven't tried the beer yet. Haven't been home long enough. Currently sitting in Calgary enjoying some sunshine. Back home today. I believe I shall try the beer then.

Good news on the computer. Where'd you find one?

Nov 24, 2009 09:34:04
cgill

Hey Simon,

Here is the only other photo I took. It doesn't really show the outside edge but I'd say the wheel is sitting about one inch out from the fender.

I got the computer at a local used rover parts place. The guy who runs it was a bit nasty to me last time I inquired about parts so I was looking for another source. In the end I called him and it worked out.

Nov 24, 2009 16:52:05
Simon Austin

Looks good. The beer..............even better! :beer:

Nov 24, 2009 17:37:52
Duncan

Boy, that is a clean garage. Sign of a sick mind, I understand...

Nov 24, 2009 17:49:25
Simon Austin

Hahaha.......I agree. He needs to spill some oil at least just to stain the floor.

Nov 24, 2009 18:07:20
cgill

It is not nice to laugh at the mentally insane!

;)

Nov 24, 2009 18:08:32
cgill

I am still trying to figure out if I should use 'used' rover oxygen sensors. Any comments?

Also, what have you used to clean the baked on crud off the injectors?

Thanks as usual!!!

Chris

Nov 24, 2009 20:55:06
Simon Austin

I wouldn't say "insane" exactly...........but the letters "OCD" come to mind...............:eyepop:

That is one nice looking garage you got there, Chris. Good to see the family haulers are kept outside.

Nov 25, 2009 15:45:38
Duncan

Buy the used ones for $5 or whatever it is. If you snap one off swinging something around during install, you'll be happy it's not a good one!

Also, if it works and doesn't throw a code, you're good! If it doesn't work, the car will still run, and you're only out $5. That's my vote, anyhow!

It's hard not to get into that "nothing's too good for my Baby" routine, huh?

Cleaning the injectors will be tough, I've had moderate success, in a well ventilated area, wearing gloves, with Motomaster (Cdn Tire) brand "Extra Strength Tool and Parts Cleaner." Still takes some scrubbing (maybe with ScotchBrite pads) though.

Nov 25, 2009 19:32:25
cgill

Thanks for the info Duncan. The issue is that the used rover parts guy wants $50 for each oxygen sensor, not $5. So do I spend an extra $50 and get new ones or gamble on the used sensors?

Cheers,
Chris

Nov 26, 2009 17:43:42
Duncan

Is there a guarantee with the used ones?

You don't need them anytime soon, so this could wait for a sale (or divine providence) to make a solution clear!

Nov 27, 2009 04:51:24
jimbb88

I have had no problems using O2 sensors from the salvage yard. Just take a can of PB Blaster or equal penetrate spray and the correct size socket.

Nov 27, 2009 15:25:56
Duncan

And for anyone who hasn't tried one, the new cordless impact drivers are amazing!! They work incredibly well for removing rusty fasteners, saving you a lot of time at the wreckers. I don't actually own one (yet!), but I've witnessed the Rattling Fury do it's thing, with slack jaw and soaring heart! An O2 sensor is a perfect application for a cordless impact driver.

Nov 27, 2009 15:34:05
cgill

Thanks for the info guys. If the oxygen sensors were $25 or less I'd be inclined to get them but I'm a bit leery of them at $50 a pop for used ones. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for rovers at other wreckers that may not know how much they are worth!

Cheers,
Chris

Dec 05, 2009 11:44:57
scotabbott

Why not ditch all the rover EFI stuff and use either GM and rechip or a Megasquirt with GM sensors?

Money is about the same as chasing down allthe rover stuff, and when you're done you'll have a system with readily available parts- and less expensive to maintain...

Dec 05, 2009 16:25:44
cgill

Hi Scot,

I managed to get the Rover EFI setup (without oxygen sensors) for $100 so I'm going to go that route for now. Ask me again in a month because I tend to change my mind with the weather!

Cheers,
Chris

Dec 06, 2009 07:46:59
Jim Blackwood

The other advantage Scot is suggesting is tunability. The MS allows you to instantly tune on-the-fly for both mixture and timing advance. With a simple drive as co-pilot you can optimize the system regardless of the combination of components. It's going to be stock you say? Great, but good luck fitting that exhaust and ballast.

Jim

Dec 06, 2009 08:22:45
cgill

Quote: "
It's going to be stock you say? Great, but good luck fitting that exhaust and ballast.

Jim"


I never mentioned it was going to be stock so you must be confused with another post. The engine is slightly modified (compression is 9:1, cam has been modified for low end torque, lightened flywheel, Jeff Schlemmer distributor, etc.). The lower plenum has been 'shaved' to fit under the hood and the fuel rail legs have been lowered to fit the new plenum height. Exhaust will be RV8 headers through the fenders likely attached to a single SS exhaust.

As for your comment about fitting exhaust and ballast, I don't really understand what you are implying so a little more info would be useful.

I have also heard mixed reviews about the megasquirt system so I'm not planning on trying it unless my current setup doesn't work for me.

Chris

Dec 06, 2009 10:04:33
scotabbott

I've had pretty good luck with the megasquirt v3 board, but I'm going to try the
"rechip/reflash" a GM ecm using Moates all in one device.
The moates setup real time tuning, flashing the chip, etc.,and
can be used on a variety of GM ecu's. In this way I can spawn an application
more inexpensively.

Dec 06, 2009 19:17:10
mstemp

Chris,

There is a guy in the US that is doing a chip into the LR CUX 14 ECU. Costs $150 to have yours rechipped or $200 installed in a spare ECU they had. His name is Randall and you can reach him at Plastic Tooling, (plastictooling at gmail.com). I have bought the chip installed in a spare ECU but not installed it or the FI yet on my 4.6L Similar to you I got the complete LR injection for $125 in a Calgary yard wo O2 sensors. If you find a cheaper place for the O2 Sensors please let me know.
If the rechipped ECU does not work well then I am only out $200 and I can then go the MS route. Well I guess I am also out the $ for the O2 sensors. Have a freind doing a MS II into an old Jag S Type so I will have lots of help if needed. Good luck with the conversion.

Dec 06, 2009 20:05:30
scotabbott

Moate's whole stuff to ral time tune and rechip an ecu is only about $320, so you may be much better off just doing it yourself. The neat thing about his thing-and also the Megasquirt-is you can do real time tuning by using a laptop connected to the ecu.. Drive the car around and either
a. have a rider adjust the VE table and acceleration/deceleration values while it's running down the road
b. use the autotune feature of the GM ecu or the autotune program from megasquirt
c. datalog the performance and then just adjust the parameters later.

Neat, eh?

Dec 06, 2009 20:36:06
jpstripeit

I am building a FI 3.9 and was going to use the rover system but have since changed my mind. I have the correct O2 sensors you need in the box's. They are bosch units. I also have a new speedometer sensor that I will not use. I am willing to sell them here insted of ebay. if interested email me mremgee@roadrunner.com. I'm sure I can save you money!

Dec 08, 2009 01:33:13
mstemp

Back to the O2 Sensors. I came accross this on Rckauto. ACDELCO Part # 2131535. Its for the following
LAND ROVER DEFENDER 110 1993
LAND ROVER DEFENDER 90 (1994 - 1997)
LAND ROVER DISCOVERY (1994 - 1995)
LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER (1987 - 1994)
LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER LWB (1993 - 1994)
1993 4.2L so I think its ussable, only $61.

Mike

Dec 08, 2009 14:07:17
cgill

Thanks for the information guys! Man it sucks when your internet goes down for 24 hours!!

Mike, what website are those from? rockauto.com?

Also, Mike, Scott, why would I want to get my rover system re-chipped? Is it for better performance than stock?

Cheers,
Chris

Dec 08, 2009 17:13:20
1744

What is the back space on those wheels Chris. Are they 15 or 16.

Dec 08, 2009 19:29:40
cgill

Bill,

I got them from Hap. 15x8
Offset: -3mm o
Backspacing: 4.33"

Dec 08, 2009 20:35:52
1744

Did you get the wheels from Hap ???? sorry for the questioning. I am in the market for wheels. do you have a web page?

Dec 09, 2009 10:39:26
cgill

No problem Bill! Yes, I bought the wheels from Hap. I did check out prices in the UK and he was very close to those dealers. I love the wheels and Hap was great to deal with.

http://www.acmespeedshop.com/catalog_c272720.html

Dec 09, 2009 11:19:02
1744

I took a look at his web page and could not find any 15 X 8 wheels, I guess I will need to call him and ask for them.
I am in between three style wheels wheels for my GT. I have minilites but are 4 on 4.5 I am looking for 5 on 4.5 with a 4.25 or 4.5 backspacing or something close to that.

Sorry for the hijacking. Signing of----------------------------->>>>>>>>>

Dec 09, 2009 12:37:08
B-racer

Call Peter at Worldwide Auto parts regarding the O2 sensors. He's a Bosch dealer, might even have them on the shelf?
1-800-362-1025

Dec 09, 2009 14:43:42
cgill

Thanks Jeff!! I'll give him a call.

Bill, I had to call Hap or email him to ask about the 15x8s since not a lot of people ask him for wheels that big.

By the way, I just bought a set of Toyo Proxes T1r tires for the wheels (225/50/R15). I'll post photos once I get them mounted this weekend.

Chris

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