MGB: Serious question about obamas birth cert.

So , lets say it is found out that obama was indeed born out of the country , Kenya , for example and he is elected president , what should , if anything be done ? I am not wanting to start an arguement about it , I was just wondering what would/could be done .

Some Republican would take the issue to court, try to have the election thrown out and Mac installed. The battle would rage on in court with the Reps filing motions and the Dems filing counter motions for 8 years. Then it would be a moot point - just like it is now.

But it clearly atstes that the president has to be born in the US . I am sure that if the shoe was on the other foot , a dem would take it to court . If a person isn't born here , he cannot be president , no ifs ands or buts , no need for courts.

I know its a moot point but this is the first time something like this has a possibilty of happening , all be it a small one.

It is required to be a natural-born citizen to be President. If you are born outside the country and your parent(s) is a citizen, you are a natural-born citizen.

Nah, not even a possiblity - this is just another "manufactured issue" to divert attention from the real ones. Happens every election. And yes, if a Mac got elected and somehow the Dems found they could challenge on that basis, you can bet your donkey or pachyderm they would. But this is nothing but a bs issue, so go waste the next four years searching Kenya for the "real" records ;)

Didn't we have this exact same thread a couple months ago? Didn't it get kinda ugly?

Paul

Oh I don't know , sorry if there was . I wasn't wanting it to get ugly , I was just wondering what people thought would be done about it .

George Romney, ran for the GOP nomination in 1968, was born in Mexico. John McCain was born in the Pnama Canal Zone. Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona before it was a state.

As far as Obama is concerned, It's just more smear. Can't beat him straight up......

Thats who it was , Barry Goldwater , born in Arizona before becoming a state ! wow , thats some time ago.

Do the same rules apply to a Vice President or is it just the President?

Paul

KLUTZ Wrote:

........quote...."Obama's feet too big to qulify as President."
.....it his ears JackMG........ he looks like......."What Me Worry"......

You mean...uh... umm...his little-known brother...

well speaking of certificates, I can think of one current president who should have been certified years ago

Must apply to the VP as well, or he/she couldn't become President.. I think the citizenship requirement is for serving as President, not only being elected President. Have to grab my copy of the Constitution and look that up!

If he was found to not be 'native born' under the laws pertaining at the date of his birth, his election would be immediately void, and anything done under Presidential authority, like any other unConstitutional action (although at least half of what the Feds do is unConstitutional). Now, since the powers that be don't care one bit what the Constitution holds them to, the possibility exists for an outright civil war between Americans and those who would still support the de-ligitimized regime. THAT is why the questions over his birth and citizenship status are so important, and not to be brushed off as trivial.

Paul

Thank you Mr. Paul Briggs , voice of reason . I was actually just curious what would happen , could happen or what people thought may happen. I think the election would be ruled void , not have the presidency to the VP , or the losing candidate , no forfeit in other words . I would think a new election would be held , the current president remaining in office until its decided .

...I disagree, N Pelosi is 3rd in command, she would take charge and call for a special election, get her 2/3 majority for changing the constitution, get it, and life would go on it's merry corrupt way.

I started this same thread question a few months ago. My question had to do with what the people would say "if" it was found he was not eligible. I wanted to know what the Obama people would say. I am afraid many will say, gee he has been here almost all his life and we really like him won't it be OK. That they would change the intent of the Constitution.

Jfrankr. under the current laws and the laws after 1966 you would be right. He would be a Natural born citizen even if he was born outside the United States. However there are two questions. If he was born actually in Kenya in 1961 he would not qualify under the laws of 1952 because he mother was only 18 and had not lived in the US for 5 years after the age of 14. Therefore he would be a naturalized citizen and not qualified. The law that fixed that in 1966 was not retroactive. Remember we had just gone through two wars.

The other issue is his time in Indonesia. The laws relative to loss of citizenship were again different than they are now where a minor can not lose his natural citizenship regardless the actions on his parent. But he was under the laws of 1940 and if you recall it was different then. The claim is because of Indonesian law he could not have gotten into school or gotten an Indonesian passport unless he was adopted by Lolo Soreto who married his mother when he was 5. He was registered in the school under the name Barry Soetoro. Under those laws he would have lost his citizenship. He then went back to Hawaii when his mother divorced his step father. He at that point had dual citizenship and it why when he went to Pakistan when he was 20 to visit and stay with his Pakistan friends he traveled on a Indonesian passport. It was 1982 and it was very bad and dangerous in Pakistan due to the fighting with India.

He could have easily got his natural citizenship back at that point assuming he was born in Hawaii by taking the oath of allegiance after the age of 18.

That is why they want to know the date and place of his oath.
They claim the birth certificate is a fraudulent certificate because they have been able to look at a digitized copy off the Internet. They want to see the original or vault copy.

Obama has refused to show anything. He could make the whole thing go away in two days. But refuses.

They are trying to get the discovery done before the election to save the constitutional question. It is easy if it is before. The DNC just picks a new candidate. After it gets complicated and I thought he woud be impeached because he was chosen by the people

I have followed the case and I know there will be a boatload of people thinking I am a nut but until you do the research on the laws of f1940, 1952, and 1966 you won't understand why they brought the suit.

Very interesting indeed .

I thought at first it was nothing but it does make you wonder what the delay is . I mean , its a birth certificate for cryin' out loud , what could be the hold up ? With him not releasing his school transcripts , medical records or anything else , something must be going on .

Thanks everyone for their opinions on the matter .

NO ONE CARES.

This is what I mean. Obama tied to terrorists. Obama tied to ACORN. Obama tied to Fannie Mae. Obama tied to Reverend Wright, etc. etc. Obama has no record. He has no original thoughts. He has no substance. If Obama was tied to 911 no one would care. They would probably say, "well, we deserved it."

It is the same reason we go in circles here.

They want Obama. Regardless of what that means. Truth and logic be damned.

It is pure emotion.

NO ONE CARES. --- you are right , he's Teflon obama. I know now why dictators always take over the media first .

I'd say out he goes. I'm no Obama supporter though, so I can't say what they would do.

It wouldn't be good for the economy.

Richard...you've probably done more research on this than anyone other than Berg, so here's a question.

Is there a limit to how long after he turned 18 he could take that oath of allegiance? In other words, IF it was proven that his citizenship is not currently valid and IF he won the election, could he do that now...or anytime before his inauguration? Or would his citizenship be gone forever?

To put it succintly - there are no serious questions left about Obama's birth certificate!

aussie zb Wrote:

Hehehe...

Check snopes and search for Obama birth.

But maybe snopes is part of the conspiracy..... hmmmm

Scott,

Really not a conspiracy. It does not go that deep and it is not complicated. In order or Snopes to be right you have to rely on a Fact Check staffers opinion of the authenticity of the certificate of live birth. Regardless how much the Obama people will say that is enough the law suit wants to see and examine the real one. They have several forensic document examiners who say they can prove it is a fabricated duplicate. The only thing they had to work with was a digitized copy from dailykos.

We can call them nuts but they have documented their findings and are willing to testify against the Obama experts. Problem is Obama will not allow and acutal copy to be examined. He only allowed the copy to be distributed via his left wing blogs like dailykos and media matters. No one else can see or touch it. That is why there is still the effort to examine it.

When the investigators tried to confirm his birth from the hospital, Obama has given two different hospitals as his place of birth. When they check the records those hospitals show no birth of a Barack Obama II on August 4, 1961. You can not see a birth record in the hospital but they can confirm or deny a birth. When they went Mombasa Kenya they were able to find the birth record of a Barack Obama II born on August 4, 1961 to an African man and a white woman. The terms used in 1961.

Now again we can say they are all nuts but because Obama won't allow it to be straightened out they are going to keep pursuing the right to see that certificate.

Problem goes away as soon as he produces it and proves it is real by proving the experts wrong. Would not take two days but he will not do it.

Richard, from the board here, I can put together a panel of people who will certify you as totally liberal. Now, will that make it true, even if we examine you in person before reaching that conclusion?

Like I said, there are no serious quetions left about Obama's birth certificate...

jackMG, so am I correct in saying that the expert in the question is the FACT CHECK staffer. I keep waiting for someone to give me something new to check because every time I go check it does not answer the question.

Where do I go for the answers to the question. I have already read every site I can google. You have read my several posts where have I got it wrong.

Actually we have to wait for the judge to rule.

Richard - you become deaf, dumb and mute when someone actually shows you evidence. If someone showed you a video of his mother going to the hospital and screamin in labor in a Honolulu hiospital, you would still deny. You, like your friend Na, are just trying to stir shit.

Eric,

The links have been posted several times to several news sites who investigated the issue and offered opinions from attorneys who specialize in immigration issues.

All have concluded that Obama is a citizen.

Why don't you do something constructive like going in the back yard and picking the wings off flys.

NO-bama No-Bama!

Instinct lives in all of us - and I feel he isn't what we're being told, he is, is he? No.

I fear for him if he does get elected. He's not got the experience and the insights or any answers, just a lot of mumbo-jumbo talk which adds up to nothing.

I realize that you have not researched the laws and the fact. If you have a law that clearly gives instructions you can not make it go away. I will give you the two parts and then a lawyer can chime in. The lawsuit says that abscent a written law then the concept of jus sanguinis applies. According to Berg this does not apply in this case because the law at the time was specific and the change was not retro active.

1952 The Immigration and Nationality Act of June 27, 1952, 66 Stat. 163, 235, 8 U.S. Code Section 1401 (b). (Section 301 of the Act).


"Section 301. (a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:


"(1) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;


"(7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States, who prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.

His mother was 18 not 19 problem 1.

It was modified in 1966 to deal with military

1966 Act of November 6, 1966 (80 Stat. 1322), amended Section 301 (a) (7) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 to read as follows:


"Section 301 (a) (7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided*, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act (59 Stat. 669; 22 U.S.C. 288) by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date.

This was the law was again modified in 1986 to remove the years necessary to have been in the US. However the lawyers say they are not retro active.

This the issue of whether his birth certificate is valid. They believe the certificate Obama uses is actually a modified birth registration of his half sister. I guess we did not see her on the stage either or in the crowd.

Now if you want to go to the next law they are talking about which is whether he lost his natural citizenship when he was in Indonesia those are different but still there.

JackMG Wrote:

Here you go Richard, a little light reading: http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_evidence/

You note the case is Berg v Obama, nobody else gives a damn, you'd think the republicans would be all over this if it had any credence.

Mike, you are right no one wants to go through the effort to do the research and no one but me wants to be called a Commanding officer of the tin hat brigade. They will wait. I am intersted regardless the outcome just because it is interesting.

If you are interested watch hanity and colmes on Monday I believe they are going to have Jerome Corsi on with the emails he found in Kenya between Obama and the Muslim leadership. Apparantly he has them and did not lose them when they arrested him in kenya.

Mike, thanks for the site, it helps with the questions and takes you to the relevant law and information source. At least they seem to agree with me that snopes is not the right place to look.

I all comes down to looking at the certificate all the other stuff is words.

cfrantz Wrote:

cfrantz Wrote: