Side effects of running with LOTS of water in my gas

Been dealing with this for a month or so. Took the 67 out for a run to a wings place but 2 miles down the road the car started acting really bad. It reminded me of running out of gas (missing, starting to stall but then catching back for a bit). Over the period after that, I changed the fuel filter a couple of times, cleaned out the float bowls in the HS4 because they looked clouded and dirty. finally realized I had some water in the gas. We ended up pumping out close to TWO liters of water from the tank (this was in maybe 6-8 gallons of fuel). Been running crappy still with similar symptoms since then. I have been working on it sporadically and have changed in no particular order or system, the plugs, wires, cap, rotor. More fuel filters. Maybe a jet/needle is clogged with crap? Maybe in my hamfisted approach, I messed up some linkage/carb thing? Could the running with gas have caused valve issues or something? looking for thoughts. I have done more and researched more but I wanted to get out a message and get some ideas.

This is my 67 with points, original 25d, Jeff Schlemmer rotor and cap, bumblebee wires, NGK's, HS4's, 270 cam, .060 engine with 35-40k since rebuild, great oil pressure. pretty stock other than that.

Carl,

I wonder if you are getting phase separation in the fuel. I've seen it in marine applications with ethanol enriched fuel. The fuel separates into a gasoline layer and a water saturated ethanol layer.

Maybe remove the tank and clean it really well and start with new gas.

I pretty much drained the tank and put the good fuel back in after settling. I then filled the tank and put in a can of Seafoam and maybe even some Techron as well. Cant remember. The fuel in there is good now and the problem still persists. I had thought it was the cap wire setup because I took one from a 63 parts car and the car ran much better. NOW, on this new setup. I am still using the old Lucas plug caps (NOS on the car since 2003). They seemed to test out OK on an Ohm Meter but that is not my specialty (Wish Kim was still here). Maybe I should try and track down some newer plug caps. I would love to find some good screw on types, I really liked the look.

Probable source of that much water:;filling up when,or shortly after station had its
tanks filled by petroleum co. Heavy droplets will seperate from fuel in a short period
such as 30 min,,however entrained water (very small droplets) take about 24 hrs to
seperate..Start by completely draining tank,,auto perts stores sell a squeeze bulb type
siphon hose you can connect to tank outlet..
Typically an aircraft that takes 30000 gallons in refueling you will get about 25 gal
of water after 30 min of refueling,,and another 20 gal 24 hrs later..
Your whole fuel system has to be purged/cleaned out as in service stations a bunch of
crud is carried with the water..
Happened to me a long time ago ,driving a Karmann Ghia ,tank was easy to remove /clean..

I will pump off a 2 liter bottle of gas and watch if over 24. Pretty sure it is fine now as the gas is crystal clear rather than cloudy but I hope you are right. The car seems to go fine at low throttle but when needing half and above that is when it goes to hell. It starts very hard with LOTS of choke and also when running crappy, application of choke seems to get it through the rough period. I do not see any obvious vac leaks in the system but I suppose spraying some carb cleaner around to check for one could not hurt.

Carl,

Just a thought train here -- more choke implies the mixture is too lean, could be crappy fuel, or a vacuum leak as you suggested. I hope you don't have a blown head gasket or broken valve.

Carl, Let's assume that the system is cleared of water and focus on the damage that might have been done. First, it's important to know that steam takes up about 1600 times the volume of the same amount of liquid water. So if there was water in the combustion chamber in any significant amount, you may have created an overpressure situation. Damage could occur to rings, piston crowns, head gasket, valves or the chamber itself - you might even damage the spark plugs. I would want to pull the head and inspect but a leakdown test will tell you about valves and rings. Replace the spark plugs if you haven't already. I'd put a pint on Marvel Mystery in the next tank of gas. I'd also inspect the carb needles for any corrosion or pitting and the jets too. Pull the float bowl lids and make sure the needle/seats operate easily. If the simple things don't fix it, pull the head and inspect for pitting, collapsed rings, damaged piston crowns, and burnt valves. Best of luck. Basil

Pulled off another 2 ltrs of fuel. Still looks crystal clear but I will set it aside. Used an inline spark plug tester. Seems fine all around. Thought it was maybe a weak spark as teh color was orange but my GT showed the same color. When started, the car seems to idle fine after a bit of idle with some choke. Backed out of drive fine but as soon as any throttle applied, it goes back to seemingly running on three cylinders. Sprayed a whole can of carb cleaner around everything with no changes but this was at idle speed. Basil, I have some MMM around here, what might that do?

I have two thoughts
This first may be overly simple but could you have bumped the timing one way or the other in your "distributor cap work" the other thought is you should totally empty the gas tank and start over. when you do put a gallon or two of fresh gas in the tank then pump it through to a clear container and let it sit. I think you are pumping questionable fuel through your system. 24 hours will tell the story on that.

Check distruber may be hanging up on accel no centriphigal advance.

Gil, I was wondering if I may have FUBARED the vac advance connection to the dizzy. Not sure how to check that with one person. It has the old brass? line running from a nipple on the rear carb via a rubber elbow, has a midline 'canister', has one more 4" section of rubber tubing and then connects to the advance via a threaded connection.

I have big mitts and short fingers. Not uncommon for me to do damage when working in tight quarters :)

Mike, this has been going on for a while now (weeks) have just done short drives to try and figure it out. Today when I pulled a half gallon off, the car had been sitting for at least 2-3 days. It has had more than one treatment with drygas, seafoam etc. Pretty confident about the fuel. Hoping no engine damage. I don't need that for a winter project. Hoping to restore my 1924 Old Town canoe instead.

Carl, The MMM lubes everything 9including the fuel pump)and cleans some crud. More than anything it smells nice and makes you feel better :) If it sounds like it's running on 3, it's probably not fuel since each carb feeds 2 cylinders. If it has spark at all 4, it's not timing - it would run crappy on all 4. It sounds like one plug, one wire, one contact in the cap, one valve, or one ring. If it gets worse as it gets hot, it's probably not the wire. Change plugs first. Then do a leakdown test. Best of luck. Basil

If you haven't already done so, replace the spark plugs with new. I've had both NGK and Champions cause what it sounds as if you have, and they tested fine and fired fine without any significant load.

I put four new NGKs in as part of it. Will toss in whatever MMM I have tonight and shake the car up :-)

Carl, I hope it helps but be prepared to pull the head. :(

Put sbout a quart of that gas in a jar and shake it up,,,
if it turns cloudy it still has water in it..

Carl,
How far away is Alfred ME?

I am thinking Chris and I could get this figured out in short order.

Basil makes a good point.
Here are a couple more...
Consider the cap...
Cracked cap will do this.
Carbon Tracing will do this.
Consider the rotor...
Dirty, worn, pitted or corroded rotor will do this.
improperly fitting rotor will do this.
Consider the wires...
One bad ignition wire will do this.
Two passable but not good wires running parallel for more than a few inches will do this.
Consider Spark Plugs...
A bad fouled or internally damaged plug will do this.
Consider the points, improper points gap or dwell angle will cause similar results.
Bad condenser will cause this...

OK... there is a lot f possibilities including
a bad ring, a stuck valve and a host of other little items.

You could just have the timing "off"
The "can" in the vac advance line could be bad... or unnecessary.
A vacuum leak is also a possibility.

by the way, I prefer Michael, i never respond to Mike... I do however respond to "Cap"

Basil makes a good point.
Here are a couple more...
Consider the cap...
Replaced with a high quality one from Jeff


Consider the rotor...
Dirty, worn, pitted or corroded rotor will do this.
improperly fitting rotor will do this.
Also replaced with one from Jeff

Consider the wires...
One bad ignition wire will do this.
Two passable but not good wires running parallel for more than a few inches will do this.
Made a new set of wires using Moss Bumble Bee wires

Consider Spark Plugs...
A bad fouled or internally damaged plug will do this.
Replaced with new NGK BPR6ES

Consider the points, improper points gap or dwell angle will cause similar results.
Bad condenser will cause this...
Have not replaced either, The points have maybe 4k on them. They were the good ones from Jeff (Blue Streak?)


OK... there is a lot f possibilities including
a bad ring, a stuck valve and a host of other little items.

Stuck valve would be not bad, Bad ring would definitely suck. Really have other things I would like to do this Fall other than tearing an engine down PLUS, this is the best driving time in New England.

You could just have the timing "off"
The "can" in the vac advance line could be bad... or unnecessary.
A vacuum leak is also a possibility.

I might use a bit of rubber tubing to check that.

by the way, I prefer Michael, i never respond to Mike... I do however respond to "Cap"
Sorry, I usually shorten to the informal as I can never remember what come first, the A or the E in spelling the long version.
I will try to remember and respect your wishes.

Some good advice here Carl. I have one thought...
When the problem first started (water), did you mess with the "tune"?
After the water problem was resolved, did you re-tune?
Hope its something simple.
RS

Robert, I did not do anything intentional but I say above something about big hands and short fingers. they have been known to wreak havoc on wires and such :)

Michael, Alfred is 1.5 hours from Chelmsford and fifteen minutes from Federal Jack's Brewpub :)

So Carl, any resolution??

Carl,
Another "out there" comment, but which might have some bearing on what you are experiencing. If your current tank is lucky enough to have a strainer on the pickup tube (not all seem to - replacement or OE), you could be having problems with accumulated gunk plugging the screen and restricting the flow of gas to the pump and from the pump to the carbs. I only mention this because I had a problem with my truck similar in many ways to yours this summer after almost 30 yrs of being parked outside and accumulating crud and condensation. A "varnish-like" sludge had formed and pretty well covered the nylon mesh screen to the point where it actually killed the OE mechanical fuel pump, and then a replacement electric pump that burned up as well. It is a pretty simple fuel system, and I finally determined that there was either enough loose or sludge-like something in the tank plugging the pickup. Using a small bicycle pump and blowing backwards from the fuel pump inlet side towards the tank, I could feel very definite resistance that slowly lessened until suddenly there was blast of air into the tank that got rid of the back pressure almost immediately. I surmised that I had probably blown the strainer off of the pickup tube, but as luck would have it, the strainer was ok but it was indeed crudded up still and lots of dark flaky looking crap laying at the bottom of the tank along with a puddle of water.

I used Seafoam to clean the strainer, flush the tank, after emptying crap gas, flotsam, and water out and letting it dry out a couple days. I put it all back together, and NOW it runs fine, accelerates like it is supposed to, and the fuel pump does not get hot anymore. This may or may not be similar to your situation, but it may provide a different perspective that could be helpful. Good luck, Carl.

Because it seems to idle fine, but stumble when using more throttle, my vote is for vac advance not working or the plugged fuel strainer/ fuel pump. easy to check fuel supply. Pull the hose off after it goes through the fuel filter. turn on the key while running the gas into a gas can. I had a car do the same thing years ago. One place wanted to rebuild the carb. turns out all i needed was a 2 dollar filter. I understand you've changed the filter, but i agree that the mesh strainer in the tank, or the pump itself should be checked.

Carl,I had a similar problem last year. Erick found a hairline crack in the dist. cap. Joe

Pardon me if I missed this but if water's been in the tank for a while, rust is a real possibility.

Yep, Dan, my truck's tank had some rust mixed in with some of the gunky other crap that I cleaned off the pickup strainer and dissolved out of the tank. Amazingly, there was not very much rust in the tank that I could find, mostly surface rust where the water had finally found a weakness in the GMC's galvanized tank interior. Not sure what Carl will find if he pulls the tank.

As a followup. I am actually heading out to pick up the car from my mechanic's in a few minutes.

I had done what I could

new dist cap, rotor (Jeff's), wires, plugs, three new fuel filters. fuel was now coming out clean (pulling 2 liters at a time). Still have the running issue, vac adv seemed to be working ok. For the first half mile of limping the car to him the car ran crappy and then it ran fine and continued to run fine for the next 20 minutes of getting down there. The next day he drained and refilled the tank, re adjusted the choke as it was off quite a bit. changed the carbs about two flats each and it is running fine it seems. I think I had two or three issues caused by the huge amount of water in the tank. The important part is that the engine did not seem to sustain any damage from the water in the combustion chamber. Dodged a bullet but it stole a month of driving for us. Foliage is starting to gain ground here in middle New England so we have lots of nice driving left

Thanks, thanks, thanks for all the thoughts, advice and concern.