Starter opinions...

My starter is getting worse. Now, it doesn't start right away nearly every time I start the car - I have to turn the key several times (hearing "click-click-click-...") before it finally kicks in. It seems the opinion from people I know locally is that it has a "dead spot" in the starter motor. Is this a valid assertion?

I'm thinking about getting a new starter to replace it. My questions are these:
1) What else should I check before I break down and buy a starter - the relay is good, the solenoid seems to click ok, though it was sticking when I was in G'burg, so I'm not sure it's in perfect condition. The ignition switch seems ok too, since I do hear the clicking.
2) What do you think of the gear reduction starter... Should I spend the extra $100 to upgrade to that, or just go with a new stock starter. My car is far from stock, so originality is not a concern - I'm looking for reliability and drivability most of all.

Thanks,
Kelly

When my starter went bad, I ordered a rebuild from Advance Auto with life time warranty.....$87.00 with core. With old starter, I had to rock the car once and awhile in gear before it would engage. Finally killed starter when drove home 5 miles with it engaged. Key did not return leaving it engaged. John Twist laughed when I told him that one. He said pinion was spinning around 50,000 rpm. Oh...that's why the shaft was blue!

Check all your grounds from battery.

I'm no expert, but I've heard the gear reduction starters were produced to eliminate problems with the starter not operating or behaving poorly because it was too hot; and you would have to wait for it to cool down before you could re-start your car.

If I were you I would save the extra 100 bucks and go with the stock one. If you never had trouble with your old stock one, (before now) stick with that.

Firstly I have had the same problem for the last 12 months and so far two new (not rebuilt) starters ahve not fixed it.

Save your money and have a qualified auto electrician check things out - thta will be my next step with this problem.

Simon, does yours act up only when the car is hot or all the time? It may be you would want a gear reduction starter. You could also check your Battery Ground cable connection at the battery and the body. Also the Engine grounding strap.

I had the same problem on my Toyota (with a gear reduction starter) and cleaning ground connections solved it.

Thinking about it some more, because the Battery is so far from the starter, it could be the Pos. battery cable is breaking down.

Just brainstorming, but it might save you a few bucks.

The only thing you didn't mention above is the connections to the solenoid and the starter. Make sure they are clean and secure. If it is the starter, I would just go with the local chain autoparts store that will give me a lifetime warranty. Worst case senario for me if it fails is I'll have to pop the clutch for a couple of days.

The stock starter on my '70B quit on me almost immediately after I bought my car. I upgraded to the gear reduction and am very happy that I did. The gear reduction starter is significantly smaller and lighter than the original. needless to say this made the installation a snap.

Since this is my first MG I don't know how a new stock starter would work but the gear replacement gets my MG started quicker than most modern cars. I figure that if I am going to replace a part I might as well make it an upgrade.

Good luck,
Eric

I have a gear reduction starter and am never going back to stock. Reliability is the most important thing to me - it has not failed me yet.

After going through two stock starters I figured it was time to try one of the gear reduction starters. I'm glad I did.

My starter has over 300,000 miles on it and works perfectly. I wouldn't expect any modern starter to last so long. The stock unit is perfectly suited to the car.

The only reason I can see for buying a gear reduction starter is for very high compression engines where the stock unit would be underpowered. Also, do you want your MG to sound like an MG when it cranks or do you want it to sound like a Chevy? ;)

My OE starter has operated perfectly for 26 years, 90K+ miles. I did have to replace the solenoid a few months ago.

Ive had starters with dead spots and had to rebuild. Id go with the rebuilt from Oreillys or Advance with the lifetime warranty or spend a little less at a reputalble starter and generator shop. Kelly, I know you know it, and its already been said, but the battery ground will give you fits if its not right.

I went with the gear reduction starter and glad I did. It's easier to work around than the stock (which I kept, just in case I want my MG to sound like an MG when I crank her) But I'd rather have it START than crank. Only thing, shop around for the price which can vary about $100. depending on the supplier. I bought one from VB
:-{

Do you have battery connectors that are clamped to the cables? If you do I would carefully inspect them. I don't use clamp on battery connectors. I've seen too many problems with them. You mentioned your solenoid was sticking at Gatlinburg, I assume you mean it was sticking in the engaged position. You could have a bad ring gear on the flywheel. Engines will usually stop at about the same place, actually two places when turned off. If you have to rock a car to unstick a starter the ring gear is suspect. You haven't mentioned the condition of your battery. Before buying a starter have the battery tested and remove the starter and get it checked. I have a some street mods on my MGB engine and have never seen the need for a gear reduction starter.

Clifton

Thanks Clifton...

Actually, I think my solenoid was sticking somewhere between on and off, or in the full off position. It would NOT engage the starter until a few taps were given. Now, I'm just trying to tell whether the problem is with the solenoid, the starter, or both. I don't think I have any ring gear damage, as the starter has been overrun only once (at idle) due to a sticking ignition key, since fixed.

Kelly

Kelly, from that last description, I'd bet on the solenoid. Pretty easy fix. I think I got one for around $40 when I replaced it fairly recently.

Hey Kelly I have the sticky key thing going on right now.
How did you fix it?

Topny D,
To answer your questions -

Battery cables were both replaced - made to fit with soldered connections at both ends. For a week or so I even ran a cable right from the battery negative all the way to the motor and bolted it to the sasme bolt as the normal engine ground strap (left the ground strap there).

Both relays have been replace and all the associated wires cleaned and checked for good connections. BTW I am an electronic Tech by trade so this all came as second nature to me. OH yes I even bypassed the switch for a couple of days too.

Battery was replaced (it did show as suspect) with the biggest one that would fit. All of which has ,made no difference. Some days she'll crank as soon as you hit the switch, and others 4 or 5 tries before she cranks. I have noticed that on the days she is reluctant to crank I can place the car in gear rock it a couple of times and then she will crank over so I am starting to wonder if it is a mechanical and not electrical problem.

Jerry...

I used some White Lithium Grease in there... Just a tiny spray of it. Worked a charm. Just don't overuse it, as it's probably not good to get it all over the electrical parts of the switch!

Edit: oh, and one more thing - I also got in the habit of carefully checking the key to make sure it was in the proper position after starting (a little pressure trying to turn it counterclockwise to see if it was at the return position).

Kelly

If rocking the car in gear cures the problem, it could be a bad sector on the starter commutator. If you can get the starter apart and clean the commutator, clean out the gaps in the commutator and install new brushes, it may fix it. It was easy on the old "bendix" starters but the pre-engaged jobs are a bit more difficult.

If the starter has enough torque to turn the motor over, I see no reason for the gear-reduction version. They are of unknown reliability and have more parts to go wrong. Most OEM starters have lasted 30 years or more - not a bad record. If you don't want to take it apart, get a rebuild - it should work fine!

Just my $0.02

Limey - that has been hapening with two count them two brand new starters and the one form the 72B which has not had any starting problems. I do not think it is a starter or solenoid in my case.

wiring? That's all that's left - that or a ignition switch/relay. check your grounds everwhere on that circuit, see if it happens if you hotwire at the relay, and check your battery ground. Any other weird symptoms showing up that wouldn't seem to be related to the starting circuit?

Kelley,
NO no other symptonms and as I stated in my original reply I even ran a ground straight from the battery to the motor and thta made no difference. This is why it has taken me 12 months plus to solve it. Nothing make sense on it.

Simon - it could be a worn ring gear. I had a '64 that would do the same thing, the ring gear was badly worn at the location the engine always stopped. The wear prevents the gear connecting properly. On a newer starter, the solenoid cannot push the starter gear into the ring gear. With older starters (Bendix type) the gear sticks in and the whole thing jams solid - there is a square on the rear of those starters that you can turn with a wrench to get the gear unstuck!