Tarmac Rally

Does anyone here compete their MG in tarmac rallies?

We have a few well regarded tarmac rallies here in Australia (Classic Adelaide, Targa Tasmania, Targa West et al) and very few MGs are seen in the line-ups. Mostly this is because we have some unfair class rules here (that we are still trying to change) that puts a 1.8 litre 'B up against some formidable beasts.

One competitor here in a BGT has mentioned he would love to have me join him in the rally (even if the chance of winning isn't great) but as I have left circuit tracks before, the thought of those trees and things beside the track scares the heck out of me. We have had some nasty incidents in our local Classic Adelaide Rally (but only three deaths in 12 years) - and of course we lost the fantastic driver Peter Brock in the Western Australian Targa West Rally. Each time it has been car versus tree.

Our tarmac rallies are run on closed public roads.

Armco and crash barriers and lots of run-off room (some with "kitty litter") make a racetrack seem pretty tame by comparison.

I am interested in others who may have undertaken these events in our cars and how they viewed them. Are they as scary as I think they are?

Here is one reason I hesitate...

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The rest of the images of this Jag rollover are here (it gets worse)...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rallygraphix/sets/72157609681555758/

Yeah. We got the Silver State Challenge in Nevada aka Nevada Open Road Challenge (Hiko to Lund). All-out speed from point to point classed by "expected" average speed and penalties for "breaking out."

I've never managed to watch one but I have heard of several accidents (usually high-end cars like Ferrarris with in-expert drivers OR sub-standard equipment like "factory" tires that were not up to the sustained high speed) many involving fatals.

These were all the rage here in Nevada and elsewhere in the Western USA where fairly long stretches of lonely roads are common. Fewer of them now, due to sanctioning and insurance.

Here's the link <http://www.sscc.us/>

Bad things happen here too... <http://www.nowpublic.com/world/ndot-management-havoc-hits-open-road-edje>

Could be a lot of fun, however... The "trees" in Nevada are a lot smaller ;)

Thanks. They describe the Classic Adelaide Rally (typical for all of the rallies I am talking about) as:

"Classic Adelaide is conducted over a number of special stages utilising sealed public roads. The rally will cover a total distance of approximately 1000 kilometres, including transport stages, over five days. The event includes approximately 32 special stages, which are conducted over roads temporarily closed to the public, although spectators are permitted in designated areas. The total length of the special stages is around 250kms, with competing cars passing through at thirty second time intervals. "

I have "worked on" - in a variety of roles from manning a road closure to being a "sector chief" (running the stage - which includes setting up the stage and managing up to thirty marshalls on the stage). Luckily I have had no really serious incidents on any stage I have run but it certainly has given me an insight into the event that some competitors may never have.

You suggest that the accidents you have heard of were "usually high-end cars like Ferrarris with in-expert drivers OR sub-standard equipment like "factory" tires that were not up to the sustained high speed" - strangely the opposite has been true of most of the fatalities in the rallies here, where the drivers and crew have been massively experienced and in well prepared rally cars (they must have full, approved roll cages and all safety gear to compete).

Maybe the more experienced you are, the harder you push? I have been told, by an experienced driver, that if you don't push 100% you have a good chance of surviving intact. Te only problem is that, on the racetrack, I tend to push 100%+ all of the time.

Of course there are lots of "accidents" - but we don't consider bent cars as being anything too unusual in rallies. Most go for three to five days so there is a lot of opportunity to bend metal.

This is a stage of the Classic Adelaide Rally from the car of a multiple winner/top three competitor (look at those trees):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzPogy07Goc

Do I really want to do this? And then I have to consider the expense of preparing my car for rally (different to track, of course) and the entry fee which is a significant amount :

The entry fee for all vehicles, regardless of category (Competition, Thoroughbred, Regularity, Classic Tour, and Category S) is $6,000 plus GST.

The Entry Fee includes:

> One set of road books, door decals and event sponsor signage
> Merchandise
> Two lunch tickets for each of the four days (Thursday to Sunday)
> Welcome Party
> Two tickets to the Presentation Dinner held at the Adelaide Convention Centre
> CAMS Personal Accident insurance (Entrants are encouraged to review the level of insurance as provided via CAMS and secure additional insurance as their personal circumstances dictate).
> Participation Medallions

Looks very intense. Trees everywhere. The entry fee alone would scare me away. If you decide to do it, I'd love to see video.

Actor Eric Bana is a very experienced racer here in Australia (circuit racing in a variety of cars) but even he says he has "had enough" of tarmac rallies.

This was his "love of his life" car at the Targa Tasmania - how would you or I feel if this was our car?

We don't really have tarmac rallys here. Silverstate is the only open road race I know of, and it is mostly high speed on straight roads. There are a quite few good offroad rallies, such as Oregon Trail, Snowball, North Nevada, Blythe, Prescott.

I'd read about Eric Bana's crash somewhere, don't remember the source. I'm in love with his Aussie Falcon, my wife's in love with Eric.

The Silver State open road race (which I've worked twice) isn't much like the stage shown in the video, or video I've seen of Targa Newfundland. 318 is primarily flat and open, altough if I remember the RI's correctly it's recommended that you slow to 140mph through The Narrows.

Most big wrecks I've heard of are tire failure. Cars are tech'd to a speed which you are not to exceed (you can run a daily driver at like 90 mph ) and you enter a class at less then youe tech'd speed. Slower cars out first, as there is less probability of a problem,and a delay, with them. Novice drivers aren't aloowed in the Unlimited or higher tech speed.

Not certain I think mjamgb is correct in his assertion. Tires are part of the tech review- you can't get tech'd over the speed rating of the tire

IMHO don't do it. If you have doubt now just think if you have a case of "doubt" mid corner while you're trying to remember the last thing your navigator just said...

I found this thread on a forum where they are talking about the last Classic Adelaide Rally where we lost two guys. One of the people in this thread was in a following car to the one that crashed and was, of course, first on the scene. This discussion was not long after the event - I was managing the stage a couple before the one with the fatality.

As with many such discussions, it gets silly pretty quickly but there are some interesting observations about going tarmac rallying, such as:

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http://aussieexotics.com/forum/events-and-racing/tarmac-rally-recomendations-post-classic-adelaide-accident-t5630.0.html

Take up circuit racing instead.....

1) You get multiple chances to get the "perfect" lap... so it's as much of a challenge/satisfaction, if not more for a perfectionist type.
2) You get to race door to door with your mates AND against the clock..
3) There are no trees jumping out in front of you. There's safety barriers and tyre walls etc.
4) You get to stop and refresh every 20 minutes or so.
5) You need less support/logistics.
6) It's cheaper.
7) It's safer.

Rallying gives you more competition time for sure though..... but you don't hear many people going home from a circuit race saying they wanted more track time.

I'd happily let my children go circuit racing, but I'd worry myself sick if they wanted to Rally.

The only one I know of in North America is the Targa Newfoundland. The next closest things in relation would either be hillclimbs or club/offroad rallying. Our tarmac rallies are regularity runs in "translation"

I dredged up this grotty, old video of me driving some of the same roads/same area they use in our Classic Adelaide Rally. They can be scary - especially when you have to stay on your side of the road and because you never know what might be coming the other way - around the blind bend!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gwJy5fnZAg

I am certain of at least one crash at the Silver State involving a Ferrarri that the owner insisted the "factory" tires were adequate since "Ferrarri put them on there, didn't they?" Of course, it was pretty early in the history of the event and I believe the organizers were not as experienced as they are now (school of really really hard knocks). If I can find the story, I'll post a link or at least a citation.

Looking at the Adelaide stuff, I think that kind of racing nearly died out in the US of A. "Hill-climbs" would be the closest.

OTOH, many "off-road" rallies in the 'States are on dirt roads, yes, but the roads are perfectly navigable by normal cars. REAL off-road racing is a point-to-point affair and 2wd vehicles definitely struggle. Sure, yeah, there are "roads" on the maps but not the sort you will find a daily driver Subaru on!

The hillclimbs we do are short and sharp - and are generally on controlled sections of track (mostly purpose built):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxm4cKuK-uE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yld4O2MGkqo

Of course the bottom line is that you have total confidence in your Driver/Navigator and, to a lesser degree
your machinery. I navigated on several open road club rallies back in the late 80's early 90's and had a great time
but we ran mostly on snow so speeds were manageable, and I did have total confidence in my driver.
I can recall a crew showing up very late after the last stage of the day with all the glass out of their car and every panel damaged
and declaring, "It IS possible to roll a car end over end at 15MPH"
Fortunately, in our time rallying the only injuries were minor, and not to us, but a lot of cars ended up among the trees.
As a navigator you do need a strong stomach, particularly on night stages when using a light. It's no fun scraping frozen
barf off the side of the car between stages!
There is currently a group trying to organise a "Targa" event in Western Canada. Their first event is due to be run in May. Should be interesting.
Unfortunately as I am now an underfinanced old fart, and the fellow who drove for me is now in Ontario I won't be entering.
Targa Canada West Link

Rich

Over the years there have been MGs and other LBCs take part in Targa Newfoudland.

Mike Salter from Toronto has driven his Austin Healey 100S (I think that's right) on several of the Targa Newfoundland events. In the first Targa Newfoundland his Healey was involved in a major collision that almost destroyed the car completely.

Cool - but I can't get my car to Canada. I can't believe how the Fins (from Finland) do their rallies on snow and how good it makes them on gravel - even if my heritage is Scandanavian.

I guess I should have put this video here instead of the thread of its own.

Top speed 216kmh - how cool, calm and collected is the navigator (sorry, we call them co-drivers now, for some reason), especially when she slips in the instruction for the driver not to "drive angry" :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd-nIqa_x2I