The Good, the bad and the ugly TO Bearing...images of my learning MG Journey

You guys won't believe the wear on my 79's Throw Out Bearing...wild but true. The entire face was gone and the base of the TO bearing was gone too - almost all the way down to the yokes!

TO Bearing : The New (Good) TO Bearing (new one) is on the far left...the Bad TO Bearing (in the middle) is the one from the White 77 with the OD -- which I am transplanting into my Red 79...and the ugly TO Bearing is on the far right, wow! Many years of use for the Bad and Ugly TO Bearing I suspect, eh!? Yep!

Rear Main Seal: got the flywheel off my engine (79). Very leaky rear main - as I removed the back engine plate, (easy). The seal is right there then, easy as pie to access. It taps right out. It was a Gaco Seal too, reddish color. The Crank has a very very slight line and minimal depression (where the shiny) line is - on the crank. I'm picking up the new seal, Payen - from NAPA tomorrow. Would the noted experts, Chris and Hap and others think a "Speedy Sleeve" would be worth a review in nullifying that line on the crank or just put the new seal on? Tips, tricks, advice?
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Gearbox Updates: Got my 4 Speed Non-OD gearbox off my engine too...very leaky front rear seals too - changing them soon.

Engine Color : My engine was orange reddish to begin with, as you can see below - when I removed the rear engine plate. I thought late model engines were originally black? a couple posts down...

The Head: I've included some images of a letter on the head, amidst the rocker arms, (HD or D). What does that designation mean, along with engine numbers on the lower side of the engine? a couple posts down...

Learned plenty about torque settings, by removing the bolts, and seeing where the gauge moved to, as the bolt loosened. Got the engines better positioned on the dollies.

Mail Delivery! Got the boxes of goodies from John of Quantum Mechanics (seals, gaskets and new shims if I need them). Got the rubber mounts from Matt with Brooklands British Cars in Tacoma - fun stuff!

Gearbox bell housing in the Non-OD...very caked with oil...a leaking seal/gasket. A goodly portion of that oil was from the leaking rear main seal in the engine as well...pictures of that below!

Original Engine Color: What was the original color of the late model B engines? I thought it was black? Yet this engine in my 79 B is orange/red, as you can see behind the engine plate, from the factory...

Rear Main seal image against engine back plate...easy-peasywhen removing then seal / engine plate...very leaky.

The Head: I've included some images of a letter on the head, amidst the rocker arms, (HD or D). What does that designation mean, along with engine numbers on the lower side of the engine?

Lastly - here's an image of the rear of the engine - less the engine plate and the seal. Would a "Speedy Sleeve" be in order if the shiny line (very neglible indentation represents too much wear? The line represents a very very slight change in the surface...:P

What does this engine number mean?

Try sanding out the shiney around the crankshaft,if it is rough and wont sand out then a speedy sleeve is in order,If I ever have to install a speedy sleeve on one of these cranks I will definetely go in with the larger Moss seal as it wo`nt cut the speedy sleeve as fast.
I have installed several speedy sleeves on harmonic balancers and in a short time there is the leak again,remove the balancer and the speedy sleeve has been cut by the seal.

The middle one looks like a roller bearing.

That orange paint is a primer. The reason it isn't covered by the black paint in that area is that the engines weren't painted black until after assembly. Most late engines you see that are original have some (or a lot!) of the orange/red primer showing through the black as the factory really skimped on the black paint to save a penny or two....

That looks like an OEM style seal - most of them leak.

If you did a little work with a strip of emery cloth and put on a NAPA (Payen) seal it would probably seal. Get a roll of emery cloth - medium or fine - it comes in rolls about an inch wide. Take a piece and wrap it around the crank and pull it back and forth.

If you want to be sure you can use a Speedi-sleeve. I wouldn't be concerned about using the Payen seal with the Speedi-sleeve - it is a better quality seal (IMHO) than the factory and should be able to accommodate the very thin sleeve. Admittedly a factory seal would probably work with a Speedi-sleeve though.

Hi Paul, I will make sure the TO Bearing swivels okay - good tip. I didn't know that the orange paint was the primer, good to know.

Yeah, personalized Head stamps - DH. Still want to know what the DH and the D mean? Also, what's the engine number denote there - anyone know? :P

[color=#3333CC]Try sanding out the shiney around the crankshaft,if it is rough and wont sand out then a speedy sleeve is in order,If I ever have to install a speedy sleeve on one of these cranks I will definetely go in with the larger Moss seal as it wo`nt cut the speedy sleeve as fast.
I have installed several speedy sleeves on harmonic balancers and in a short time there is the leak again,remove the balancer and the speedy sleeve has been cut by the seal.[/color] .....

Martin: Makes sense - but is that something that is common practice to do....sand the shiny ring on the crank away? What sort of abrasive would I use? Comments, suggestings, warnings anyone? I'm not doing a thing until till I know the full background on this particular area (crank wear) where the rear-main seal is located. Speedy Sleeve advice, yes, no?

[color=#FF0000]When I place my finger tip, nail on that shiny ring mark on the crank, it feels similar to placing my finger over the edge of a standard piece of printer paper...edge to surface.[/color] - though slightly less.

If it were my engine, I would feel more confident using a speedy-sleeve and a good quality seal such as a Payen. The reason behind that decision lies in the fact that if one were to use emery material in an attempt to eliminate the wear pattern of the original seal, the process would leave an unpolished surface behind that would cause damage to the new seal and that the diameter would also more than likely not be perfectly round, again causing a potential for a leak or seal failure. By using a sleeve, both of those conditions would be met.


Jim B.

Dan, you might want to read this first before installing a new seal: http://rlhudson.com/Shaft%20Seal%20Book/perform-install.html .

However, you might want to read the articles on this site, http://rlhudson.com/Shaft%20Seal%20Book/intro-divider.html that precede the installation discussion. I have found this to be one of the best discussions of seals, how they are intended to work, and how to install them on the internet. It may seem a bit more than you need, but in the end it is probably just a good education in the subject, especially for someone of your experience.

Do not be sanding on the crank surfaces!!!!! You can use emory cloth to clean up/polish a surface but that is different.
One other option to the speedi sleeve would be to install the seal at a depth in the back plate so the seal lip runs in a different position of the crank surface than it has up till now.

You can also do some searching on here, some folks have found a double lip seal that fits like a dream, but is made for another engine. I think it is a Federal Mogul part number, and folks report good service with that one.

Not to be critical, but you didn't need to remove the engine back plate to do that seal, unless you just wanted to.

I'm sure Hap or smarter folks will be along soon.

Looks like you are having fun!

The rear main seal available from Rover has 2 lips for better sealing. RAY

Hate to say but I think I got it.......well maybe.:S BTW, Is this THE David Crosby?? Bet you get that a lot.:D

D_ _K Head,
Still Lost? :)

I believe Dan was thinking more along the lines of Dan Hoering. :)

You all crack me up! They're not even my initials! Anything for sh##'s & giggles I guess? Rock ON!

I just thought about it - if you replace the seal with a Payen (Federal Mogul) it is very unlikely it will ride in exactly the same place as the factory OEM seal - they are noticeably different. So, you probably don't have to do anything except put the seal on.

I have the Payen seal & yes it is quite different, I'm confident about the seal & my forthcoming installation skills. Today I got the front & rear seals installed on the OD gearbox! Tomorrow all kinds of continued & completed; I'll have the OD all buttoned up as well! Then on to the other gearbox, seals & more!

D H is not your initials?? OK, I'm done here as an obvious incompetent.

Yes, Paul the old (orange) seal does say, Gaco on the it. You can barely make it out. The new black Payel seal - on the left is more stout on the conical edge. The old seal is quite brittle and doesn't fit very tightly in the bore as well, the seal cracked upon removal - along the front edge near the part where the conical edges edges down. The new one - fits nice and tight! See image...

Here's an image of the front cover within the gearbox bell housing, with the new seal in place! Next up - re-tape (in blue) the OD/back up switch wires harnesses - then add the 20/50 Castrol - and leave it until she's ready to join with the engine.

Then onto the other gearbox for seals and more! My initials are DLH!

Might I suggest leaving the trans empty until you are ready to install? That way if it rolls over, you won't end up with an Exxon Valdez on your floor.