The Respectable MGB Conversion ~ The Formula on a budget

I wanted to make a very short list of things that I believe make a very nice MGB V6 (or V8 for that matter) for those wanting to build a car but not knowing where to stop. This simple formula is for those wanting a very nice street machine that they can take around the lake and cross country and autocross and impress their friends too.

This is based off quite a number of vehicles that have passed through here, that I have advised on in the past, that I have ridden in, that others have made for themselves or clients and who knows what.

This does not reflect the 'ultimate' car that most would love to own.

This is a simple and respectable car that in all means, keeps with or a step ahead of modern traffic.

Funny thing is, my car is currently set up pretty much this way but it's going to be further improved.

I am not going to go on about one V6 vs. another V6 vs. various V8 engines because some cost more, some require more parts to get the power to transfer to the ground with any use causing additional costs and all sorts of reasons. If you disagree with the engine type I recommend, simply replace it with the engine type you prefer. I am not going any further on that- it defeats the point of this simple equation. :)

"...without knowing where to stop." Heh. "Whaddaya mean, when will it be done? It's my hobby fer cryin' out loud!" :)

I'm getting mixed signals on the rear anti-sway bar. "Some say" don't ever add one because it changes the car's handling too much. "Some say" don't ever add one unless you upgrade the front anti-sway bar also. "Some say" never, ever upgrade the front anti-sway bar because, well... it changes the car's handling too much. Not to hijack an important thread, Brian, but can you expand on that a bit? You're one of the guys that does this for a living so I know you're speaking from experience rather than just repeating what others have said.

And Liz - Yes, I did use the search function.

Well done Brian,very concise!

Brian, I wonder if you might mention that the 2.8 and 3,1 are about as easy as the 3.4 , or a generic statement about RWD V6's

Rick,

A late model MGB has a rear anti-sway bar. It helps quite a bit with the stock ride height. When you lower the late model B, placing a big anti-sway bar helps and nominally people add better tires such as a 175 for the stock rims or a 195 for other type rims. The car can stick better so without a bigger front anti-sway bar, its going to lean. I like the setup that i have on my car with the stock rear.

For the early cars, I have heard people go different ways. Personally, I would prefer to mimic the late model, but thats just me.

I will go back to the subject at hand in a minute.
Rick, suspension set-up is like underwear, everyone likes something different. Sway bars and spring rate is totally different for every person. suspension in general are set up for the masses. So... if you like it a bit loose add spring rate to the rear or add a sway bar, which in theory does the same thing with added benefit or less roll.
Roll is not bad. The sticky the tires the stiffer springs and sway bars. Always should maintain 1-2 degrees of roll.
Race cars are totally set up different for every driver same track. What works for one those not work for the other.

Going back to Brian’s post.

Like any project (except Gov run projects) need a plan, I mean an honest plan that fits the project. And the ability to do the work. Without one is just trying to bring a la la land dream to reality. Without a plan a project most likely will never be completed due to cost, time and ability.

A good logical flow chart to organize the work is a most, knowing what the outcome is in accordance to the budget, time ability and space available to do the work. Support location for technical or just moral support is one of the most important.
Yes, your spouses agreement to support you and your project. How many hours per week etc. need to be included in your flow chart.
If you have a comprehensive work plan, it is possible to do several projects including the honey do’s. This is important and helpful . If your boss/spouse is well inform on what days you are available, the work days on the project become more prosperous.
The bottom lines is, it does not matter how much money you spend on your project, what matters is how well you manage your plan and budget to get the desire outcome.
Good post Brian.

Nicely done Brian

At my work (transportation - light rail) we are always cautioned about scope creep. What Brian laid out is a simple path to a conversion. You can take any of the items and expand. However, in the end you need to consider what you are building and what you plan to do with the car. If you are only going to use the car as a driver, daily or weekends, building to race specs is over kill. Remember my first statement about scope creep.

Bill,
I thoroughly agree with you. The best way is for someone to make an honest and organized committment to this type of project. I believe that people seldom do. They often go through the motions but do not do it effectively.
A flow chart which shows the choices, results and the costs might be well worthwhile for some folks. People dont seem to comprehend what their choices mean at the start of the project, and they wind up with something different than they originally started out to get..

I have a spread sheet Scot that has everything that is needed to do the conversion. It is a nice tool to use before anyone starts a project.

I think you should make a plan and stick with it , you can always upgrade later, that way your project will be finished.
If you fail to plan , you plan to fail !
Will

Well, I've saved this for when my kids get out of college and I have extra cash. :spinning:

Brian,

Great post. It is a realistic approach to a conversion project.....i.e., the basics to get the car on the road. After that point, the options are pretty much endless.

Thanks,

Bill,

I saw your spread sheet a while back and it is a good tool for people. The kind of flow chart I was thinking of was more like a 'decision tree' which would be arranged first to help define the car in terms of performance characteristics, then followed by hardware choices, and the consequences of each hardware choice on the other choices, cost and ease of applcation.
When it comes to performance, the first might be acceleration rate (0-60 times, etc), easily attainable top speed, etc.-which defines the horsepower and thence the engine choices. Another might be cold start and reliability-which would highlight the choice of fueling approach (EFI, carb, etc). and so on. Some of these choices impact other things, such as ease of fit into engine compartment (hood scoop, etc),weight distribution, and so on. Those of us with a great deal of experience can provide this information in quantitative terms so that the choices are much easier and clearer for someone to make. It would help a lot of people make better decisions. I believe.

Scot, the spread sheet is just a place to start and perhaps create a build flow chart. Yes the decision and choices should be made first and a flow chart/plan or anything tht would help you organize the project/s is a most. That is the foundation for a good build chart. I could not function without one. I have several ongoing projects and without a plan for each there is not way I could work on all of them and spend time with my family. The hard part is to maintain dicipline to work on the allowed hrs to work on each project everyday or 1or 2 days a week, what ever the plan, and not to go over those hrs. If I go over those allowed hrs, then something else gets behind.
Getting behind on a project schedule is not, I just re-arrange the schedule and just put myself ahead of schedule LOL:thumbsup:

Antitramp bars, not expensive and they really put the power on the road in a predicable fashion.
I only got them because they came with the composite springs. They are an untidy solution, which is why I resisted them, however it turns out that they work very well and you could make a set yourself without to much trouble if you did not want to buy one the the many kits. I would not be without them now.

Brian,
Good job , you have everyone thinking. Planning is important if you are going to have a project see it's completion.
So many times you see a person get overwhelmed and then sell out because they did not know what they have got their self into. It is easy to get all enthused at first and then become discouraged because you bit off to much at one time.

(1) Pick a project that fits your ability.
(2) Pick a project that fits your budget. (including covering cost of covering number one, hey you can't always do everything)
(3) Build your project twice, once in your head and then for real.
(4) It's important to have a place to do the project.
(5) Set goals, stages of completion, reaching each goal will keep you enthused. And if you do some of them under budget or completed sooner and find yourself able to get a jump on the next stage that will really fire you up.

I have restored 6 classic cars and several motorcycles, this is what works for me. Maybe this will help you.

Good Luck with Your Project ! Will

Good post Brian,

I recently purchased a Gt with the very Basic 2.8 Auto tranny conversion, I keep meaning to post pics but I have been very busy working the regular Job.

I regularly visit the MGB V6 & V8 Conversion FAQ, this would be a good place for this post.

So now My question, How do I connect the stock mgb speedo to the auto tranny? The 2.8 and tranny are from an 83 camaro and the Gt is a 70/71. I have 1000 tpm and a 1280 tpm speedo's. I can't get the safety certificate, if the speedo is not working. I need that to get on the road.

Any advice appreciated. Chris

I believe you'll find the output of the transmission is a mechanical one, and D&D sells the stuff to fit from the transmission to drive the speedo properly. In the case the output is an electronic one, you can replace it with a mechanical one. They interchange. You will have to look inside the hole in the tailshaft housing to see which ring gear is driving the mechanical output, but you can do that using a mirror without having to remove the transmission. IIRC, it was about $100 or so for the whole enchilada from D&D. (proper drive cable to speedo and angle drive with right ratio to fit the transmission and report the speed correctly.

I'd sure like to see pix of that setup, since I might well do one myself soon. I'd like to see the underside of the car and how well the tranny fits into the tunnel.

Thanks.
Scot

Brian, good information. I do somewhat disagree on the gauges for a "budget" build, it's not that difficult to convert the tach to work with a V8 or V6. Calibrating the speedometer might be a bit of a hassle, but most speedometer shops can build a cable to adapt the T5 to the Smiths gauge and calibrate it if given the tire sizes and gear ratios involved. The rest of the original gauges should do fine with the new engine.

Bill, Thank You for your words. If you have further information or could- please post on the tacho and speedo conversions on a new thread. No one has ever post enough information on this that i can recall and would love to read about this. I think it makes a great subject and would like something that everyone can search out and find easily.

How much: Time, Costs -and lots of how-to Photos.

For us: We do not convert these in house but send them out to APT in Bloomington, MN. http://gaugeguys.com/ (uh-oh, I gave out the big Secret!)
By the time they come back, it costs more than some sets of gauges which is why I post on here the lesser of two costs. I FAR prefer stock appearing gauges but a cable driven speedometer usually requires rebuilding, then a speedometer cable, a correction box, the correction box recalibrated after you change out tire size or gearbox or rear end ratios which have too high of price plus the need to run the cable usually next to hot exhaust. Then your tachometer costs added to that. Love them, but......

Switch to a VSS driven speedometer and a tacho that simply works with anything and you can save money in the long run.

What's the right way to go? "You make the call." :)

-BMC.

I am going with all new modern gauges with white faces on a custom made carbon fiber dash. But I think if Bill knows how to convert the original gauges I would love to see a thread on how to do that and I'm sure there are many who would like to keep the original Smith gauges. HEY their named Smith they have to be good , can't go wrong with Smith.

Will Smith

Brian, you have e-mail. There has been information on tachometer conversions posted for several years on this and other boards. I've also seen other articles and saved several that follow about the same modifications to the electronics inside the instrument. Here's one such article. http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/MGB-to-V8-Tach-Conversion.htm There are others out there, some have a bit different take but basically the same process, just modify the electonices to respond to the extra pulse frequency of a V6 or V8.
As for the speedometer, you might need a converter gearbox in the cable depending on the drive gear ratio from your transmission and the rear axle ratio you select, but with a stock MGB 3.9 and a V8 Camaro trans you should be close enough for a speedometer shop to cal the gauge without the gearbox. You should still be able to get by for a little less than converting to new instruments if your old gauges are in reasonable condidtion to start with. I've looked at new gauges and you can easily put $250 and more into a set of gauges, that will pay for a lot of calibration and a new cable.
If you're going to retain the electronic engine management system and fuel injection then the VSS input signal may be needed in which case the fully electronic speedometer is more reasonable, but still not absolutely necessary. I've found this neat little device that will plug inline in the cable and give you a VSS signal and still allow the use of the original speedometer if you wish. Item #54MG http://www.partshp.com/speedometer_gears.htm
They also have angle drive adaptors with either direct drive or step down or step up gearing available to fit the output of a T5 with cable drive. Or the inserts and gears to convert an electric sending unit T5 to cable drive if you wish.

Scott Do you Have a link or number for D&D as I'm not familiar with that company.

The cross member (Front Axle) was cut and re-welded for Clearance on the oil pan, a small re-fabrication on the tunnel by the Steering Knuckle, The old transmission support was cut out and a new square tubular member made for the transmission support further rear ward. I'll post sometime soon, I'll PM when I post.

They're D&D Fabrications http://www.aluminumv8.com/about/about.htm, and they have been in the BV8 world quite a while. They have been halpful and fairly reasonably priced. As it happens the little right angle 1 to 1 adapters are supplied by Arthur Allen MGF corp, (wierdly, they make funeral candle holders). They also supply pulse generators, gear adapters, reed switches, and a bunch of odd automotive bits.

http://www.arthurallen.com/automotive/auto1.htm

There is a compnay here in the California ( I posted their phone #) who converts the old gauges to modern electronics, this is common in several old classics.

I wish D & D would fix their web site, tiny red writing on the black background!
Will

Aw, c'mon. You might be throwing out the baby with the bath water. Some people won't even read a message here if there's a spelling mistake that's ...hmm... 'imposable' to not notice.

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My apologies. I'm just an old guy tired of rants.

I agree with your observation that the web site is hard on the eyes and a poor choice for people trying to get detailed information. The colors are also impractical choice. Every page that is printed kills the print ink supply, and so on. Background colors take a lot of ink to print-esp dark ones.

However, I'd bet someone loved the 'look' of it and went out of their way to choose it over other options-perhaps over the objections of the page designer(s). I think it takes a fair amount of competence to build a set of pages which are so distracting and cheap/cheezy looking . Maybe that's the 'look' someone at D and D wanted. It might be the 'look' which someone thinks appeals to a certain money-carrying group of motorheads.

Maybe call 'em on the phone and bitch about the site.

I'd have to agree with Scot. I got my new rear axle from D & D and mentioned to Mark that the site was a bit hard on the eyes. He's aware of it. It's on the list of things that need to be taken care of. But if I remember correctly, he is essentially a one man operation.

If you want information about D&D, I’d advise just calling Mark up and talking to him. He's more than ready to share information/alternatives and is quite easy to work with. It saves getting aggravated by something over which you have no control.

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It also could be that the design of the D&D site looked good on the monitor that it was designed on not thinking about how it would look once finally posted into the varied mix of browsers and monitor formats.

Good to have a plan and end goal in mind along with the tactics to make it happen - lack of a plan and realistic budgeting is a recipe for a failed/abandoned project. As far as a formula for what's easiest/best - I see the benefit for a lot of folks, but the thought of having a B built to the same formula as a thousand others makes the cars less appealing to me - but I'm kinda off that way.

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You MGB guys are lucky you have a (build sheet)..My build list is approching the pages new health care bill has on my 3.1 Midget...