Tube Shock Conversion

Hello,

I am new to this forum and I have a quick question. I am working on puting tube shocks on all four corners of my 69 Sprite. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this. I see that the Moss kit for the front is by far the nicest. Has anyone delt with any kits replacing the lever shock with an A-Arm setup? Has anyone found other kits that replace the lever shock? I believe I have the rear setup down pat, and I could do the fronts like *this* setup, but I would like to explore the A-Arm option.

Thanks a bunch.
Matt.

That conversion does look pretty well designed, however there have been problems with the upper mount tearing out of the sheet metal without more reinforcement in that area. This comes up fairly often it seems and opinions are divided. I for one lean towards keeping the original lever action shocks unless you are involved in actual racing where you would really need the adjustability and also the resistance to foaming from extended hard usage. A lever action shock with an uprated valve that's in good condition will do just fine for a street driven Spridget. If your shocks are bad then I'd suggest getting them rebuilt by Peter Caldwell at World Wide Auto Parts rather than convert to tube type. http://www.nosimport.com/

Keep the levers. They're actually quite nice units. Get them rebuilt by Peter and you will be a happy camper. Welcome to the forum.

Tube shocks have no advantage I know over the stock levers which are designed for the car. As tube shocks were seldom designed for LBCs except certain TRs Jags and MGC, a substitute is often used which may or maynot be appropriate.

I agree, stay with the lever shocks. They were included in the car's design.

Somehow guys with TR6's began thinking that replacing the levers with tube shocks was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then the problem came up of frames cracking and other problems. That led to reinforcing the frame and the shock mounts for the tube shocks. By the time they seem to have the setup reinforced there is a lot of extra weight cobbled to the car.

In the meantime those of us with our lever shocks just motor on.

Once again I'm with the others. Peter Caldwell with worldwide is the one to go with.
To many problems with the tube conversion shocks. If you want adjustability I believe Peter has a set up for racing.

Last Thursday I spent a couple hours in Peter's shop on another project. He showed me his very thorough shock rebuilding procedure, impressive to say the least.

This brings up another question. How often do you need to rebuild lever shocks? I am planning to do my repairs over the winter so I do not have any summer downtime with the car. Thank you all for your great advice thus far.

Matt.

Lever shocks were never designed to be rebuilt, only replaced as far as I can tell. The reason I say this is that the original design had the shafts pivoting directly on the metal housings, if they wore then it was shot. Peter has developed tooling and methods to install delrin bushings, stainless steel sleeves on the shafts to repair and wear there and a true lip type seal in place of the original packing type seal. His rebuilds are guaranteed for life and should last that long. If you have some that are showing signs of leakage around the shaft seals or are binding up it's time to either rebuild or replace your choice. I tend towards the rebuild as Peter actually returns a shock that better than new when he's done.

I'm not sure I agree with Bill, but I'll leave it at that as he is profoundly knowledgeable.
Lever shocks have a far greater life span than the tube shocks of the era. And x2 on Peter's services. The attendent problem with tube shocks is they don't last as long, today's formulas include gas over oil instead of the period correct oil only, and as I mentioned, LBCs are not the target of Koni, Monroe, Spax etc. When one considers the overall length and compressed length and duty service, ie. the weight the design is supposed to handle, the common tube replacement has limited working sizes and those are made mostly for much newer cars, newer designs which ignore the bulk of 50+ year old cars of limited demand for product.

I also specialize in cars made early Post War and the issues are large. Unless one were to commission say a Chinese factory to make a production run of 10K units to OEM specs, the "replacements" are the only things available and often are too "charged" to convey the intended ease of ride.

As a parts purveyor, I offer that, IMHO, modern easily obtainable tube shocks for 50 year old cars is a myth at the outset and by design, mostly not readily correctly available. Will they work? Perhaps, but NOT as the OEM design.

Its a curiosity that Hot Rodders actually prefer the LBC lever shocks due to the brief and effective design for pay loads far exceeding OEM design, while LBC owners are drawn to the myth that tubes are somehow better. UK engineers in their day made a few mistakes and the legends abound about those mistakes. But in the case of the lever shocks on a compact car make no mistake they nailed it, nailed correctly, and provided a small working space solution for a better ride.

The colored and first pages of most catalogues are filled with items designed to part owners $ for myths, legends, and snakeoils not unlike most of the aisles at most corner parts stores offering hype and cheap instead of quality and reason. I'll take the opportunity to say David Vizard knows little or nothing to LBC performance tuning.

If you have any doubt to any of the above, ask openly on the forum or privately to me. I don't know as much as I used to, I have forgotten a lot of what I knew, I often think I know when I don't, but in this case I will brook no arguments. Its you $, its your car, its your decision. But if you prefer the truth to fiction and marketing, OEM designs are mostly a better and more practicle solution. Buy from Peter, buy from me, in either event you will have state of the art modern tech to soften your ride. :)

I do not have the knowledge of Robert or Bill but I've been reading about this issue for 15 years. About 12-14 years ago I bought a wonderful set of yellow gas adjustable Spax shocks for my MGB. They were great looking, they made me feel modern, and I tried running them with hard, medium and soft settings. They were great,.....then I drove a couple of other cars with 30 year old not rebuilt Lever shocks.........they were great (!?). When I started my Midge rebuild 1 1/2 years ago, I did a good bit of email back and forth with a tech guy at Moss Europe concerning Levers and SU carbs. I wish I would have kept those emails (!), the bottom line is, the Lever shocks are 'super' engineered to do the job for our cars for out and about driving, and even a good bit of heavy footed and heavy steering driving. It is probably difficult to truly top a well sorted set of Lever shocks. I am not a racer, so the utility and adjustability of the Spax for me was wasted dollars (but pretty yellow in the wheel wells). After my 'back and forth' with the Moss Europe guy, it was easy decision for me: Lever shocks....I was real lucky.........the PO had them rebuilt before he sold the body. If he hadnt, theyed be shipped straight away to Peter C!

I've attached a photo of my ex-'B' Spax set up....real sweet looking, no problems, just not needed off the track. And look at that poor Lever in back acting as a brace!

What I lack in mechanical background and knowledge, I make up for with enthusiasm!

Here's my take on tube shock conversions for what it's worth.
1. There is no tube shock designed for the Spridget or MGB. Shocks are designed for a specific vehicle weight, suspension weight, and travel. Any tube shock you buy is going to be a compromise in one of these areas as none were designed with the MG specifically in mind. For a tube shock to perform to it's max it should be at or near the middle of it's performance range, most shock convesions I've heard of usually wind up being set on one of the softest settings just to maintain a reasonable ride on an MG.
2. On the rear they can be incorporated pretty easily and the original lever shock is removed, but on the front you need to retain the original lever shock as it forms part of the suspension. In that case you now have the action of two shocks working together which is not necessarily ideal. You can remove the valve from the lever shock to decrease it's action, but don't drain it as it needs the lubrication on the pivot area to prevent wear. If you go with a Frontline or Costello conversion then that becomes a non issue but that's expensive and not usually done.

When I was building my Midget I read all the books and thought it would be neat to have a tube shock conversion on the rear. I built my own brackets and installed shocks that were recommended. I also incorporated the bracket for the panhard rod into the shock bracket. If it wasn't for that, I'd have reinstalled my lever shocks on the rear years ago. I've never been as satisfied with the ride since the installation of the tube shocks as I was before the conversion.
After meeting Peter Caldwell at Spridget 50 last year and seeing his presentation on lever shocks I am more convinced than ever that retaining the original lever shocks on our cars is the best way to go for those not involved with actual on track racing. I've seen a very quick autocross Spridget which had Peter's adjustable lever actions installed on all 4 corners and it was amazing and still very streetable with a quick adjustment after the event to a softer setting for the road. Just as easy as adjusting a lot of tube shocks perhaps easier than some.