MGB: What role do VALUES play in the Healthcare Reform discussions??

Could be an interesting discussion, even if it does appear on NPR's Talk of the Nation. http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=120174337&m=120174317

It would be a good discussion.

My values say that I should do the best I can for myself and help as many people as I can. The difference is that I think this plan will do significant damage to our economy and will really hurt the working man and cause severe damage to them .

Now because I don't support the health care plan it will be said I don't have values. You only have values if you give free health care to 47 million people yet the results will be the same for them. They will be the most damaged by the results of the plan.

Values do play a role and we all filter the world through our value system. I am not against helping others and do think we should help those who truly need help. I don't think the direction that they are trying to take health care is the best. Does the system need to be fixed? Well, what's broken? The poor need coverage! My foster daughter's family does not have health insurance and they have never wanted for care; in fact they are more likely to run to the ER at every little sniffle than we are to run to the doctor for things and I've not heard them complaining about paying large bills for their visits to the ER whereas I really have to think about what I go for because I rack up $$$'s real fast and I have insurance.

I've said this before, I don't think they'll really raise the care of the poor much above what they have now, but I think my standard of care will be dropped to close to what the poor have available now. I may be wrong, but I've yet to see the government take over anything and do it better than the private sector can. (And, yes, I've had the pleasure of experiencing private--PPO, HMO-- and public health care--MediCal--, so I am aware of what is involved in both.)

[quote=auctionwatch]
You guys need to get yourself a better government then, because plenty of governments worldwide provide affordable, world-class healthcare for each and every one of their citizens.[/quote]

The above mentioned family members of my foster daughter did receive world class care--free. The point that many are making is that the poor don't have insurance; they don't, but they still get care and they do get good care. Again, my issue is not helping others, it is that, when the govenrmnet gets involved, the quality of care for the uninsured will go up a little and the quality of my care will go down a lot. The government will not bring up everyone's quality of care to that which I have, it will end up dragging down the quality of care overall. That's how our government does things.

What will happen in my case is the government will tell my employer that they can buy into the government system for a lot less than our current private insurance. I'll be told I have two choices: 1) I can take the employer option (government plan) at no cost or, 2) I can buy the plan I have ($1000.00/mo). Well, guess which I'm going to choose becaue I can't afford $1000.00/mo for insurance. We've been dealing with government insurance with our foster daughter and her son--the only advantage is that she doesn't pay anything and that is the only advantage. But, someone has to pay and it is my tax dollars. All that will happen when the govenrment takes over is I won't have a co-pay but I'll have higher taxes to cover the costs. Steve, you're from the UK, how much of the taxes go to cover health care costs? We're being told that the government plan won't cost us a cent and I just don't believe it because someone is going to have to pay the bill.

We can't go back to anything close to the British cost for several reasons. But if you were to try to seperate out the accounting issues, cost of money and book value of facilities. I would think it would stil be cheaper but not the spread they have now which looks to be $2700 to $6000.

[quote=auctionwatch]

[quote="S. Duerr"]
I guess my question should be stated this way: How much of your personal income goes to pay for your health care? It isn't free, someone has to pay and from what I understand, in the UK the income taxes are higher than in the US. So, how much of you personal income, in the form of income taxes, etc, goes to paying for your care.[/quote]

I pay around £10,000 in taxes and National Insurance every year which goes into the pot of UK Plc. £90 billion of that pot goes to pay for our healthcare system for 60 million people, so healthcare costs, on average, £1500 per person. So for what it's worth, in my specific case 15% of the taxes I pay contribute to my healthcare.

Is that what you're after?

Did anyone listen to the program? LOL.

[quote=auctionwatch]
[quote="S. Duerr"]
I guess my question should be stated this way: How much of your personal income goes to pay for your health care? It isn't free, someone has to pay and from what I understand, in the UK the income taxes are higher than in the US. So, how much of you personal income, in the form of income taxes, etc, goes to paying for your care.[/quote]

I pay around £10,000 in taxes and National Insurance every year which goes into the pot of UK Plc. £90 billion of that pot goes to pay for our healthcare system for 60 million people, so healthcare costs, on average, £1500 per person. So for what it's worth, in my specific case 15% of the taxes I pay contribute to my healthcare.

Is that what you're after?[/quote]

Yes, Steve, that's what I was asking. If we could have health care for $3000.00/person it would be a bargain--my insurance is costing my employer about $13000.00/year. I just don't see our government being able to control the costs and seeing it end up running up costs beyond imagination.

[hr]
No, Bob, I didn't listen but probably should.

[quote=bobmunch]
Did anyone listen to the program? LOL.[/quote]

;)

"Liberty is to the collective body what health is to every individual body. Without health no pleasure can be tasted by man; without liberty, no happiness can be enjoyed by society." - Thomas Jefferson

[quote=auctionwatch]
I think a lot of the cost in your system's healthcare is down to legal fees. We just don't have the same litigious society that you do... yet ;)[/quote]

Very well could be, as well as over-testing so that there is no lawsuit.

I'm having shoulder issues. I've been in and had an x-ray. I'm sure that, if I go in again, they'll want another. I tend to tell the doctor to do it the old fassioned way--move things and see what doesn't feel right. We've refused meds for our kids because they were not needed--antibiotics when the child has a virus. The doctors don't like that, but I'm paying the bill, not them and I have told them that they are welcome to order any test that they want to pay for. That usually stops the discussion. ;)