MGB: Windshield overhaul Part 1

Finally got off my lazy butt and had a go at rebuilding my windshield. Actually went rather well. I think one of the keys to making this less painful is using long clamps to hold the top and bottom frames to the glass while I attached the end posts. Another was to chase all the threads and use new screws to hold it all together.

Couple of photos to follow to show off this afternoon's entertainment. Next job.........the infamous windshield-to-body seal!! :eyepop:

The clamps in use:

...and the finished (for now) product. I knew that Cortina of mine would come in handy for something...

now do both of mineB)

Simon

Do you recall the lay out of long and short screws?

If you look closely at Simon's photos you'll notice a number of first place finishes in rallies and concours shows hanging on the wall.

Nice work simon...well, unless you bought the plaques from the thrift shop and scratched your name into them. ;)

Sure do, Lee. I'll even add a picture of the screws to show the length of the short ones. There's 22 in all. Of those, only 8 need to be the short ones. These 8 go as follows: 2 each through the bottom frame to attach to the L-bracket and on the top frame, the two inner holes of the 5 at each corner. With me so far?

The other 3 holes of the 5 along the top frame are 1/2" long, #10-32. As well, the 4 screws that go into each side-post are 1/2" long. All the screws are #10-32. I took 8 of them and shortened them on the grinding wheel using an original screw as a guide.

In this photo, the measurement is only the thread length, not the overall length of the screw. The one on the right is a stock 1/2" screw, the left is modified. It doesn't look like much thread left but trust me, it's enough. I cracked a windshield a while back by using a screw that was just that little bit too long.

Hopefully this makes sense. I can throw together a quick diagram if needed.

As for Chris and his smart comments :), my etching skills are not nearly that good.

A correction on the number of screws; there's only 18. Amazing what one thinks about on the way to work!

The long clamps are a nice touch. Never did like using come-along straps on these. Gotta do mine (again! :( ) next month.

Simon,

Could you describe how the center support post bracket is attached at the bottom of the windshield? I've tried blowing up your photo but can't quite make it out. I've always assumed that you have to take the windshield off but in your photo I don't see any part of the bracket that extends to the underside of the windshield frame. Thanks.

Steve

It is just stitting there Steve it bolts to the top of the dash.

Looks Great Simon!

I'll take a close-up photo of that area when I get home tonight, Steve. The bracket you see in the above photo is held on with rivets. Stand by.

[quote=PaulM]
It is just stitting there Steve it bolts to the top of the dash.

Looks Great Simon![/quote]

Paul,

That's what I thought when I went to remove the rod to paint it, but that damned bracket won't budge after the two bolts are removed. I then assumed there was a fastener of some sort that attached it to the windshield lower bar. So when I saw Simon's picture that appears to show it doesn't extend under the windshield bar, my curiousity was piqued. What am I missing?

Steve

Using the wood working clamps is good idea. What did you use for lube? KY:eyeroll:

Simon are you planning on posting pics of the windshield install? I have done a few and found ratchet straps handy for getting the bolt holes lined up. I use a stick to set the vent gaps.
The cowl seal slid in easily after making sure that its' track was bur free and not deformed. KY again

[quote="Simon Austin"]
I'll take a close-up photo of that area when I get home tonight, Steve. The bracket you see in the above photo is held on with rivets. Stand by.[/quote]

Aha. I take it the rivets fasten it to the rear facing side of the lower windshield bar? Look forward to the picture. Thanks.

Steve

Simon, you give me hope!

[quote="Simon Austin"]
Sure do, Lee. I'll even add a picture of the screws to show the length of the short ones. There's 22 in all. Of those, only 8 need to be the short ones. These 8 go as follows: 2 each through the bottom frame to attach to the L-bracket and on the top frame, the two inner holes of the 5 at each corner. With me so far?

The other 3 holes of the 5 along the top frame are 1/2" long, #10-32. As well, the 4 screws that go into each side-post are 1/2" long. All the screws are #10-32. I took 8 of them and shortened them on the grinding wheel using an original screw as a guide.

In this photo, the measurement is only the thread length, not the overall length of the screw. The one on the right is a stock 1/2" screw, the left is modified. It doesn't look like much thread left but trust me, it's enough. I cracked a windshield a while back by using a screw that was just that little bit too long.

Hopefully this makes sense. I can throw together a quick diagram if needed.

As for Chris and his smart comments :), my etching skills are not nearly that good.

A correction on the number of screws; there's only 18. Amazing what one thinks about on the way to work![/quote]

Thanks for the details Simon

The reason I asked is that one of the B's I have I bought came home in card board boxes as a puzzle to put together, and yup, the PO had disassembled the windshield assembly (along with everything else) with out marking any of the parts.

The reason that I bought the car was that it was only $1000, was a solid LE, but most importantly, the guy had a local reputable shop rebuild his engine .20 over and balanced, but had never put in the car after 10 yrs. So all I had to do was have it disassembled, inspected, tweeked a few things, and reassembled which I didn't think was a bad value for $1000 on a solid car.

And it has been fun to sort out to boot.

Steve, you are correct. The rivets attach the bracket as you describe.

Jim, the KY is standing by. I'll try to get action photos as the project continues.

Lee, sounds like you've got a good deal there. As long as the fun continues, you're doing alright.

Here you go, Steve. Photos as promised.

One of these days I'll look into how to attach more than one photo per message.

The front portion of the bracket gets wedged under the lower part of the windshield frame sometimes Steve...try and wiggle it out.

Paul


[quote=sws615]
[quote=PaulM]
It is just stitting there Steve it bolts to the top of the dash.

Looks Great Simon![/quote]

Paul,

That's what I thought when I went to remove the rod to paint it, but that damned bracket won't budge after the two bolts are removed. I then assumed there was a fastener of some sort that attached it to the windshield lower bar. So when I saw Simon's picture that appears to show it doesn't extend under the windshield bar, my curiousity was piqued. What am I missing?

Steve[/quote]

Jeez...I'm sure mine are not riveted on. I have to go look at my spare down stairs now.

Sorry...I stand Corrected!

This is one of those things that always gets overlooked only because there's no real need to remove that bracket when doing the windshield rebuild. The only reason mine was off was because I had the frame and posts polished and the guy doing the job said these bits were in the way, so he removed them. Much better results.

If you look closely at the top rail screws that came out, the short inner ones are slightly different. The standard bevel on the 10-32 is 82 deg and that is what goes in the rest of the frame. The inner, short screws have a 100 deg bevel.

[quote="Simon Austin"]
One of these days I'll look into how to attach more than one photo per message.[/quote]

Thanks Simon. That explains why my bracket won't come out, but also gives me an idea about how to do it without removing the windshield. I'll let you know if it works.

Steve

[quote="Simon Austin"]
Steve, you are correct. The rivets attach the bracket as you describe.

Jim, the KY is standing by. I'll try to get action photos as the project continues.

Lee, sounds like you've got a good deal there. As long as the fun continues, you're doing alright.[/quote]

Being a pilot I understand Simon gets his KY in bulk.
The burning question is, Warming or Flavoured?:smoking:
I'm sure not looking forward to doing the windshield on the ZA.
I'll have to stock up on lube.:)

[quote="Simon Austin"]

Next job.........the infamous windshield-to-body seal!! :eyepop:[/quote]


Simon, Joe and I used the rope trick a little differently than what we'd read & it seemed to work well. We made a loop in the center of the rope and began pulling from the center, rather than from the ends. We also found that baby powder on the windshield to body seal worked really well and there wasn't much drag when the seal was uncurled. Also, it was a lot easier to clean up than jelly would have been. Actually, that part was the easiest part of a job I hope we never have to do again! We got it on the first try :)

Thanks for posting your pictures. Really like your idea of using the clamps and doing the sides last. We really struggled to get the last post on the frame.

Barb

I believe I understand what you're saying, Barb. You're talking about getting the seal to "uncoil" as the windshield is lowered onto the car, right? That part I don't have problems with as I've used a towel laid across the car, lower the windshield onto that that, like you do with the rope, slowly pull the towel out from the middle towards the ends. As long as a friend or two is helping, the job goes fairly well.

I have to get the seal onto the windshield frame first before I'm ready to tackle that job. That's the horrible part of this project. Using the clamps was a new idea and worked great.

Rich, I don't want to talk about it..............;)

I always run a thin bead of butyl caulk over and under the pillar seal as well as the cowl seal. It cleans up well with mineral spirits. This way there are no leeks when finished.
The cowl seal does slide in easily with a deburd and straightened track. The KY works well again. Best to wash the KY off before the final assembly or the butyl will not stick.

This has turned out to be a great primer on installing windshields. Simon, thanks for starting this. I'm saving all this for the day I have to do it.

Steve

What constantly takes my breath away is just how spectacularly complicated these windscreens are. Just how many parts are there exactly? 66 bits?. correct me if I'm wrong.

Well I've just dismantled the windshield (we call them Windscreens downunder and search couldn't find any reference LOL.so I went ahead without all this valuable help........but I'm learning). I'm having all the bits polished, new aluminium inserts etc etc. Have just finished drilling out all the pop rivets and am left with only one problem. On the top frame of the Windshield there are two plates to tie in the side frames. These plates have four holes each, two for screws to the sideplates and the inside two that are BLIND......i.e. appear to be some sort of plug, different sort of rivet, or another of the weird things you find on English cars. Absolutelty flush and neat on the top side, and appear to be sheared on the bottom side of the metal plate that they are fixing/locating.

Can someone please tell me what these are? Are they available for sale anywhere and is there necessity for a special tool to install them? Alternatively could I just Tap the holes in the new metal plate and use screws?

All help sincerely accepted.

Car is a 68 1/2 Australian built Roadster, halfway between an original B (Mk I) and a Mark II.

Yep..he sure has got a lot of them.

Meant to comment the other day Simon...guess we were just talking to much and rounding up all of Chris's stuff.


[quote=cgill]
If you look closely at Simon's photos you'll notice a number of first place finishes in rallies and concours shows hanging on the wall.

Nice work simon...well, unless you bought the plaques from the thrift shop and scratched your name into them. ;)[/quote]

I think I know the parts you're referring to Chris. Are they part number 21 on this link?: http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29043#21

If so, of course they're N/A. However, all is not lost. If you can get the 3 outer most screws out on the top frame, you can pull the sideposts off. I seem to recall the original frames had some kind of "rivet" (for lack of a better word) on the inner two holes. It's been so long since I've seen an original frame I'd forgotten about it. My suggestion is to leave the inner ones in place and thus the bracket as well.

If you do want to remove that bracket altogether, you can drill out the offending bit and the bracket and then re-thread the bracket with a #10-32 tap. If you can post a photo of what you have, that will help.

Paul, that Chris guy sure does give us a lot to talk about.......;) Right after you left, I found those valve cover gaskets. Figures.....

Yep ...never fails Simon.

Simon,

Thanks, they are #21 and of course NA. I already had the countersunk screws out so side posts were free but the metal joining plates are so rusted that there's no way I'd reassemble with them. It is Sunday afternoon so I decided to do an exploratory with the drill. They drilled out reasonably easy. So all is good. As for what they are, the best description would be a "blind countersunk head rivet" that seats itself beautifully in the head frame which you can then locate the metal plate on the other side of the headframe and then apply some pulling/simultaneously cutting device to get a secure weatherproof fit.....bloody ingenious. Good thing they're NA cos I'd never find the tool to use them. Tap the other two holes in the metal plate (or they probably come like it now) and use C/S screws as in the other holes will be my solution.

Great thread, imagine I'll be referring to it often.

Simon, My teenage son assisted me with his firm grip and brute strength on the pulling end. I used goop soap for a lubricant. Too many questions to answer with the other type lube.
I will loan you my son for an unspecified length of time. In fact he's available for multiple installations in the lower mainland and island. Just keep him moving. Feed him well and return him next year sometime.

John L.

PS - where can I buy some plaques like that?

So, let me get this straight, John. I can borrow your son, feed him, house him, keep him moving around and entertained........just for letting him help me install a seal........I'll get back to you on that. :D I'll scan the plaques and you can make your own. According to Chris, that's what he thinks I've done.

Good work, Chris. I like your description and probably exactly what they're called. I imagine most windshields by now have been redone so to find one like yours with the original rivets is something. I had to drill out one of my lower L-brackets during the rebuild and rethread it. Easy enough to do. Funny that the top brackets are N/A. I know I bought the lower ones a while back and with most parts being available new (although questionable quality), it's unusual these aren't available.

I'll be attempting the installation of the windshield-to-body seal and hopefully getting the windshield back in tomorrow. Will try and get some photos. Actually, I will be more positive and say I will get the seal installed and the windshield back on the car.